Hard truths and observations

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
MissingMontana
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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby MissingMontana » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:18 pm

Hey Sal,
Working on a Sunday? ;)
But when you run a business, I know sometimes its difficult to close the office door, even for a few hours on a Sunday.

Thank you for another very insightful reply.....yes, the world has certainly changed. It's a Brave New World...global politics, markets, and profit margins change the board almost daily.

As others have said often, you and the members of the senior management team have kept your finger on the pulse of the business extremely well under increasingly challenging circumstances.
Two factors I've been watching lately is the US / China business relationship as well as the tightening knife laws in the International Community....
neither of which allows you (the company) much control over.
More like anticipate and react.

Thanks again Sal.
North of 49

steeljustice
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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby steeljustice » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:41 pm

What i have noticed about Spyderco is they use more different steels then any other knife Mfg. they were among the first to use the Nitro steels in their salt water knives, and even when using a much higher priced blade steel they still can market a quality knife at a price most would say is fair.

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DSH007
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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby DSH007 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:49 am

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:44 am
I Think the FRN Para3 will become a hit and a perineal favorite. Here is why.

1.FRN is not just light weight but strong and tough wish it had full liners like the Stretch2. Linerless FRN that I own Pacific Salt 1 has up and down blade play but that may be more due to the back lock without liners. Stretch and stretch 2 have it also but far less with full liners and the G-10 version least of all so chalking it up to back locks.

2. Compression lock should work well here can’t see why it would not. And May alleviate afore mentioned issues.

3. Handle shape very much like the Stretch series which is a great handle.

4. CTS-BD1N Steel everything I have read compares it to VG10 and that is an automatic winner in my experience. It is supposed to be more corrosion resistant and hold a working edge like S30V yet sharpen easy like VG10. What is not to love?

5. Blade and 50/50 choil can do with a choil and choose not to use it but when you really want control can’t do with out. Some will oddly consider this a negative? Oh well.

6. Deep carry wire clip. Very nice!

Looks Like Eric has thought this one out pretty good and while I will not buy a Delica at any price This one is a must have.

I own an Endura4 the handle alone is no where near as good as the Stretch nor this upcoming Para3 and prefer larger blades so a shorter Endura (Delica) versus this well thought out Para3 for a few dollars more? Hah easy decision Para3 me with FRN and CTS-BD1 Steel please. Er uhmmm make that 2 please need a beater and a backup!
HAHAH! I'm not typically one to nitpick over grammar, or pass judgement on how one uses their Spydercos, but perineal and perennial mean two very different things.. ;)

I agree with your assessment on the Para 3 LW though.. this is a highly compelling piece and I'm very excited to get my hands on one!
Rick H.

..well, that escalated quickly..

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Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:15 pm

Yeah I let spell check on the phone do it’s thing and pray for a favorable outcome, and if not at least a funny ones
I have spoken. :)

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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby 500Nitro » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:25 pm

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:15 pm
Yeah I let spell check on the phone do it’s thing and pray for a favorable outcome, and if not at least a funny ones
And that was certainly a funny one lol

Gotta love auto speller !
3 x Endura 1 SE, 1 x Endura ? CE and a Black Pacific Salt. Want Aqua Salt, Fish Hunter and a Pacific Salt Yellow.

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curlyhairedboy
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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby curlyhairedboy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:29 pm

Sal, thanks again for the insight.

What draws me to Spyderco - in comparison to the competition - is the fascinating combination of very high build quality/reliability and some of the most adventurous designs seen in the knife world. Others innovate, of course, but they do not match the volume of design diversity that Spyderco produces.

Maybe Spyderco collectors emerged as ELUs began to appreciate both aspects of Spyderco production.

The Ethnic series is one of my favorite things in the world of knives. It's the furthest thing from 'safe', justified by the humble reasoning that many different people in many different times in many different places have needed to cut stuff. It's comforting knowledge that there's NOT one best way to make a knife, and to bring that level of design diversity to a production knife market is literally unparalleled.

Since we're talking about the Shaman....

I don't think the 'value' argument holds up in-person when it comes to the Shaman. What makes it better than the sum of its parts becomes clear when you get to finally hold one.

I'm not going to say that the competition can't make a knife that fits a user's hand well. I will say that I highly doubt the competition has spent nearly the amount of time ensuring that the knife fits the majority of ELU's hands in a variety of grips while remaining comfortable for extended use all day long.

That design work is worth the premium to me. It's more than just s30v and g10. I can slap those together with a bolt in my garage, but just because I could grind an edge on it doesn't make it a better product because it uses the same materials.
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, Ouroboros
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native
Would like to own again: Sheepsfoot Caribbean
Wishlist: CQI Kapara, Watu, Tanto PM2, Shaman Sprints!

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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby cycleguy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:20 pm

Getting back to the #1 post and having spent some hours shopping online and experiencing some of the price increase that is occurring for 2019 got me wondering how some people are what appears to me to be irrationally over sensitive to small price increases and being rather arbitrary with their price limit/budget of what they are going to spend on a particular knife (or anything) they are interested in.

In other words, last year's $162 knife you were eyeing is this year's $175 knife; how are you going to react? But, for some it has now become a deal killer ... for what seems to me like nickles and dimes. Why? Seems one could adjust their habits for a week or two and find the additional funds easily ... like walk somewhere close by vs driving or plan your trips more efficiently, turn the thermostat down one degree at night, pack your lunch one or two times more vs eating out, or just don't do a starbucks or two... you name it the list goes on and on.

I've frequently cleaned my closets for years on the internet and am amused and shake my head every time when I come across those that are in the school of "I'll buy it for $130 but not for $135"! Oh, the life of a miser!!!

As for me, and I don't think it has anything to do with price increases; I'm keeping the collection to those designs I like BEST probably to help cut back on the clutter. For modern folders I've just said goodbye to my last on hand Manix, Native 5, and Mini Grip (i do like them i just don't like them best); and will continue to add Delicas, PM2s, and Bugouts. I'll also continue to try a different knife or two a year in hopes of finding that elusive knife that can be added to or dethrone those on my like BEST list.

When price becomes an issue that I can't overcome and I'm left to collecting items manufactured in China, then this will no longer be a hobby for me.

CG
So many knives - so little funds!!!

bagsnatcher
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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby bagsnatcher » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:14 pm

A few observations in no particular order:

- an apt car analogy (everyone gets car and sports analogies, right?) would be the changes that started in the 80s, in the US car industry; you can steadfastly refuse to buy "imports" and insist on "buy American!" but the reality is, KIA, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, are (still) insane values, for not a whole lot of coin (especially the Korean brands). One could argue that this "buy American!" actually stifles innovation and the need to improve;

- Chinese goods are cheap, because they're often manufactured with borderline slave labor (sometimes, quite literally slave labor); you might argue that high end, high spec, precision manufacturing doesn't fall into that category, because CNC operators, and machinists aren't slaves or forced laborers; but, the underlying system that supports them is build with forced & slave labor. There's a morality / ethics component to it, but there's also a dollar component to it (whether you pay it now, or our kids' kids pay it in two generations);

- do you remember the Chinese dog food poisoning and Chinese baby formula poisoning incidents circa 2007 and 2008? And again circa 2014? Again, there is an ethics / morality component to this;

- can you think of one Chinese innovation the field of cutlery? Or, really, in any field? Something that wasn't "inspired" by a Western product? Please name one example.

- the economic pendulum swung too far, too fast (generationally speaking); there is an up-and-coming middle class explosion in China; the current clip can't be maintained forever, or even for an extended time (generationally speaking). Sooner rather than later, even Chinese labor will become more expensive, maybe expensive enough to make items prohibitive to manufacture locally. Who's going to be China's China? Is manufacturing going to come back Stateside? How, when we've stopped training machinists, because we've been told that the post-consumer economy is based on service and innovation? We've been training at least 2 generations of servers and "entrepreneurs;"

- any knife more costly than $20 (Opinel, Svord) or, if I'm generous, $50 dollars (SAK), is a toy, period. A very cool and functional toy, but a toy nonetheless. If you're upset that the Chinese are making cooler toys at cheaper prices, you've missed the indignation boat a long *LONG* time ago;

- I personally don't like the way Chinese manufacturers market their brands (Kizer comes to mind).

rgrad80
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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby rgrad80 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:46 am

Eli Chaps wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:47 am
For me, Spyderco has always represented the well-built, blue collar, line up. They always had their upper echelon knives and along the way the lower budget series, but it was that middle tier that attracted me.

I'm not quibbling about whether or not the prices are fair or justified. I'm just accepting what is presented to me and for me, it is getting harder not to stray. And no, I don't have to look to China.

Spyderco seems to be chasing the sprints and exclusives thing and targeting a different market than I represent. That's cool and I sincerely wish them nothing but the best and tremendous success.
On point.
Days without buying a Spyderco: 35

You always have a choice.

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Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:33 am

You know I have looked around recently to see what people are talking about and honestly for as many companies that are making knives they just do not get much of my attention let alone money. Now when it comes to multi tools there is some neat stuff out there.

I would love to see Spyderco make a Swiss type gadget knife in lets say VG-10 Ideally for me it would have the Stretch 2 Blade, a pair of Scissors and a Shackle Key that could be used for prying and as a screw driver like with my Victoronix Mariner. So essentially 3 tools.

The mariner is too thick with too many tools here is what it looks like https://www.westmarine.com/buy/victorin ... gKJ9vD_BwE
I have spoken. :)

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anycal
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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby anycal » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:20 pm

I appreciate Spyderco knives because of the design, variety, quality, and this community. All reasons why I have as many :spyder: as I do. I like knives, I like using them, always have, always will. That's my truth.

But for me, it is pretty simple. If Spyderco stops making knives I want (whether it is price, materials used, or models), I will stop buying.

Honestly, if Spyderco was to disappear tomorrow, I am pretty sure I would phase out knives as a hobby. I have plenty, and I would have no problem distributing funds spent on knives toward my other interests. As things are today, I have exactly zero interest jumping ship to other manufactures.

Knives as a hobby is a bit unusual to me. Not quite sure what attracted me to it. All my other bobbies and interests are shared with people around me. People I know and hang out with. When it comes to knives, I am cruising solo here. I have friends who have knives, who appreciate my collection, but none are in as deep as I am. That's OK. Still enjoying myself.
Peter

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sal
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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby sal » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:42 pm

Hi Anycal,

I believe it is a natural attraction ( a sharp gene? ) that affects some people. I see kids a a show. Their parents say they have no interest in knives, but their kid does, so they bring them to the show. The kids knows knives; steels. models etc. You probably have that "sharp" gene. ;)

sal

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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:01 pm

sal wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:42 pm
Hi Anycal,

I believe it is a natural attraction ( a sharp gene? ) that affects some people. I see kids a a show. Their parents say they have no interest in knives, but their kid does, so they bring them to the show. The kids knows knives; steels. models etc. You probably have that "sharp" gene. ;)

sal
I can recall being fascinated by swiss army knives and other folding multitools as soon as my long term memory had developed.

Never knew why, it's just always been that way.

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Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:57 pm

Vivi wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:01 pm
sal wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:42 pm
Hi Anycal,

I believe it is a natural attraction ( a sharp gene? ) that affects some people. I see kids a a show. Their parents say they have no interest in knives, but their kid does, so they bring them to the show. The kids knows knives; steels. models etc. You probably have that "sharp" gene. ;)

sal
I can recall being fascinated by swiss army knives and other folding multitools as soon as my long term memory had developed.

Never knew why, it's just always been that way.
Same here, the fork and spoon on a knife combo just knocked it out of the ball park for me as a kid!
I have spoken. :)

ladybug93
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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby ladybug93 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:30 pm

Vivi wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:01 pm
sal wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:42 pm
Hi Anycal,

I believe it is a natural attraction ( a sharp gene? ) that affects some people. I see kids a a show. Their parents say they have no interest in knives, but their kid does, so they bring them to the show. The kids knows knives; steels. models etc. You probably have that "sharp" gene. ;)

sal
I can recall being fascinated by swiss army knives and other folding multitools as soon as my long term memory had developed.

Never knew why, it's just always been that way.
for me, it was the rambo and macgyver phenomena of the '80s. they were both heroes of mine and both had very different knives that essentially became characters of their own. i grew up loving blades because of these two.

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Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:47 pm

Yeah I can see that the First Blood Knife is a beauty, the ones that followed in subsequent movies were pretty cool too but the first knife was totally like What Is That!

I mean seriously you knew that thing meant business!!!

I wonder hey Sal did you ever meet the guy that made the first blood knife? I would pay good money to have a functioning version not a prop in my collection.
Last edited by Doeswhateveraspidercan on Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
I have spoken. :)

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sal
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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby sal » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:28 pm

Gil Hibben made them. Really great knife-maker. Good friend.

sal

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MichaelScott
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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby MichaelScott » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:52 pm

It’s not merely steels, locks, innovations and price vrs value for me:

“i have a new knife

it is a small knife

it has bone handles

brass pins and silver bolsters

a badge on one bone reads UN-X-LD

a trade mark from two centuries ago

two blades fold neatly into the handle

it took many people using their hands and machinery

that was new when my grandfather was young

to make this knife

this knife looks like the one i remember

one fall afternoon

when grandfather sat in the yard on the chair he had made

unfolded the small blade

and neatly cut the ends off ripe pecans”
What doesn’t kill you will make you stronger. Except infantry. Infantry will kill you.

“Gentlemen, bring out your men.” — T. J. Jackson, Second Manassas, 1862

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ladybug93
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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby ladybug93 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:01 am

jimmy lile made the knives for the first blood movies (i and ii). gil hibben made the knife for rambo iii and rambo (iv).

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Brock O Lee
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Re: Hard truths and observations

Postby Brock O Lee » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:54 am

ladybug93 wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:30 pm
Vivi wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:01 pm
sal wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:42 pm
Hi Anycal,

I believe it is a natural attraction ( a sharp gene? ) that affects some people. I see kids a a show. Their parents say they have no interest in knives, but their kid does, so they bring them to the show. The kids knows knives; steels. models etc. You probably have that "sharp" gene. ;)

sal
I can recall being fascinated by swiss army knives and other folding multitools as soon as my long term memory had developed.

Never knew why, it's just always been that way.
for me, it was the rambo and macgyver phenomena of the '80s. they were both heroes of mine and both had very different knives that essentially became characters of their own. i grew up loving blades because of these two.
I was thinking about this the other day... Silly as it seems, but MacGyver was one of the defining influencers in my days as a youngster. Add to that the “sharp gene”, and here I am, 3 decades later, still with a SAK in my one pocket, and a Spydie in the other.
Hans
Favourites at the moment: Military 204P, Spydiechef, Sage 2, Pits, Heinnie UKPK, Native Cruwear, Chaparral Ti


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