16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knives?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Wartstein and Peter, regarding the traditional German made Mercator knives, is this true what I read? There are web sites claiming the original pattern was adopted during the German Empire period in the 1860s and 1870s, and then has been produced without much change except for some basic materials from then until now. I would like to know how accurate that is. Also, what would a Spyderco Mercator collaboration look like?

I have a couple of those, both a stainless and a carbon steel bladed one. VERY sharp and good slicers. I used them to slice through some cardboard boxes and then some cheese for cheese and crackers snack and the blade edges are like razors.

I have seen pictures of them in vintage German outdoor sporting goods catalogs going back to the early 1900s.

PS: In one of the advertisements I read, the Mercator design was used by Otto Von Bismarck himself, in Germany, and became popular.

[Wartstein]

Wartstein and Peter, regarding the traditional German made Mercator knives, is this true what I read?...

Sorry, but I guess you know more about the Mercator than I do.. just can confirm, that I also read often times that the design remained unchanged for about 150 years now (and I believe that to be true).
Also I read somewhere, that this knife was the weapon of choice in many knife fights in the New York Bronx in the Seventies (no idea if THAT is true... )
Maybe piet has more on this? Both Piet and I are actually not Germans by the way (where this knife comes from).

[Wartstein]

Posted this in the "What Spyderco is in your pocket today" thread originally, but then remembered this old thread I started once and though it would fit here too:

Stretch 1 compared to a similarly sized, very old, traditional Austrian / Bavarian knife, called the "Hirschfaenger" ("deer catcher" in English).

Both the Stretch and the "Hirschfaenger" were originally designed as hunting knives but are also great all purpose blades of similar, not too big, not too small size

As far as I know starting from about the 16th century professional local hunters would carry two knives, one for skinning, and this "Hischfaenger" meant for killing wounded animals

Later they became all-purpose knives, carried by farmers, lumberjacks and the more rural men generally.
The famous Austrian/Bavarian "Lederhosen" (the knee-long leathertrousers) even have a dedicated side pocket for carrying this type of knives.

Still you can sometimes see older guys in the mountains cutting their bacon and bread for lunch with such old blades.

[Theldraskien]

Hey Wartstein, thanks for resurrecting this thread. I never would have seen it otherwise. I’ve been curious about traditional knives myself recently.

The HBC Camp Knives that Vivi posted shares many design elements with the Province. It’s fascinating to see the same designs echo through different eras. When something works it works I guess :)

[standy99]

16th century Australia

[Wartstein]

16th century Australia

:p

[JuPaul]

Cool thread, Gernot! Sadly I don't have any neat older knives to contribute, but I really like seeing the ones other folks have added and hearing the history behind them.

[bearrowland]

Same as Julia. The closest I have is a Finnish Puukko which is currently in lockdown with my son in Virginia.

[Wartstein]

Hey Wartstein, thanks for resurrecting this thread. I never would have seen it otherwise. I’ve been curious about traditional knives myself recently.

Cool thread, Gernot! Sadly I don't have any neat older knives to contribute, but I really like seeing the ones other folks have added and hearing the history behind them.

Glad you like the thread! :)

I originally started it really because the traditional Austrian "Taschenfeitel" (see my very first post) reminded me lot of the Delica.. like an centuries old, much simpler version of it in similar size.
It was also the first knife I carried (like many other boys in Austria for probably also centuries... :) )

[Sonorum]

Sweden doesn't really have a distinct traditional folding knife pattern as far as I am aware but we do have distinct Scandinavian fixed blade patterns that I'm sure you would all recognize.

This is a classic Mora which has been produced in the same village for 125 years:


This is a knife found in a Viking settlement from 900 ad:

There are both differences and similarities and I find the similarities interesting. I think most Scandinavian people would just see it as a knife and not a historical object if they saw one. "The tang ran through a more or less cylindrical handle, the blade was straight with the edge sweeping upward at the tip to meet the back of the blade in a point. The knife apparently played an important role for all Scandinavians. This is evidenced by the large number of knives found in burial sites of not just the men, but the women and children too." Wiki

[Ez556]

A knife I liked so much that I made my own version of it.
A bit more sophisticated but still a friction folder.

Wow! That’s a gorgeous knife!

[Wartstein]

A knife I liked so much that I made my own version of it.
A bit more sophisticated but still a friction folder.

Wow! That’s a gorgeous knife!

True!

[Wartstein]

In my original post of this thread I described a traditional Austrian knife that reminds me in size and somewhat shape of the Delica (the "Taschenfeitel", see: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82372#p1293139 ) - the "16th century Delica", since it is produced in the very same form and shape since around 1550...

Now on yesterdays hike I actually found such a folder on a mountain top, here it is compared to the Endura I happened to carry...:)

[tonijedi]

Here in Portugal we also have traditional pocket knives with wooden handles, but these ones are very characteristic of our "soul" as country :D





Yep, they have a tiny fork :D

[Wartstein]

Here in Portugal we also have traditional pocket knives with wooden handles, but these ones are very characteristic of our "soul" as country :D
..
Yep, they have a tiny fork :D

I think I´d really like the "soul of your country"...
I´ve just made it to Spain several times, but never a bit further to Portugal. I´ll have to catch up on that, if we´re ever allowed to travel abroad again... :rolleyes:

EDIT: Honest question: How are the knife laws in your country? Could I legally bring and carry an Endura?

[tonijedi]

Here in Portugal we also have traditional pocket knives with wooden handles, but these ones are very characteristic of our "soul" as country :D
..
Yep, they have a tiny fork :D

I think I´d really like the "soul of your country"...
I´ve just made it to Spain several times, but never a bit further to Portugal. I´ll have to catch up on that, if we´re ever allowed to travel abroad again... :rolleyes:

EDIT: Honest question: How are the knife laws in your country? Could I legally bring and carry an Endura?

You can carry an Endura as the legal limit is below 10cm.
No Autos, Daggers, butterflies.
You can carry larger knives if you have a valid reason for it (while camping or working for example).
But you can't carry knives inside shopping centers, movie theaters etc. Altough I have carried Delica sized knives for over ten years without a problem.
My advice is: if you plan to stay in cities bring the Chaparral, if you plan to go hiking bring a larger knife for that. If you fly without checked baggage bring nothing and buy something here :D

[GarageBoy]

I guess Chinese cleaver would be my cultural knife

Wonder if there's such thing as a high end one? 4v Chinese cleaver would be hilarious

[zuludelta]

I call Canada home but my family is originally from the Philippines so if we're talking about traditional Filipino knives that have inspired (or are reminiscent of) Spyderco designs, there are a lot of them—the Philippines has a rich "knife culture" that has exerted a somewhat outsized influence on the current Western folding knife industry. A number of Spyderco designers (among them Ed Schempp, Michael Janich, Chris Knutsen, and Sal Glesser) have designed knives that either take direct inspiration from traditional Filipino knife/sword designs or have been designed with usage concepts from the blade-centric Filipino martial arts (FMA) in mind.

Just some of the more obvious ones I can think of off the top of my head:

• Janisong: inspired by the traditional balisong
• Barong folder: inspired by the traditional barong
• Kris folder: inspired by the traditional kris. The kris design is common across Southeast Asia but the Kris folder takes inspiration from the version associated with the Moro people of the Southern Philippines.
• Karahawk: inspired by the traditional karambit. The karambit is more of a general Southeast Asian design than one specific to the Philippines, but I think the Karahawk hews closer to the traditionally smaller Filipino karambit than the larger Indonesian one.
• Schempp Rock: I haven't read anything to confirm this, but from my personal experience, I think that this knife takes a lot of design cues from traditional Filipino choppers such as the barong-like blade and the "negative angle" between the blade and the handle.
• Equilibrium: I recall Ed Schempp saying he designed this with female FMA practitioners in mind.
• Introvert: explicitly stated by Chris Knutsen as being influenced by FMA principles.
• Yojimbo 2: described by Michael Janich as being designed to accomodate what he refers to as the "Filipino grip"—a grip he has observed to be commonly used by experienced FMA practitioners.

Beyond specific models, I think Spyderco, more than any other Western knife company, has incorporated FMA principles in its design DNA—a knife like the Endura, for instance, while not being directly inspired or influenced by traditional Filipino knife design (at least as far as I know), just feels like an "FMA knife" to me for some reason.

Edited to add a pic of my late father's kris (which you can either call a short sword or a long knife):

[Bemo]

Wow such a cool thread.

[Wartstein]

Wow such a cool thread.

Sent you a reply to your pm :)