16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knives?

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Wartstein
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16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knives?

Postby Wartstein » Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:10 am

Since there are appearantly forum members from all over the world, I thought it could be both interesting and fun to show or describe traditional / historic knifes from the region YOU live in and what would be the closest knife in design Spyderco produces

When talking about traditional knifes, I am thinking about both folders and fixed blades, examples would be the Scandinavian Pukko style knifes, the french Laguiole folders or maybe the US Bowie knife.

So let´s see how this goes and let me start with a traditional Austrian knife, the European country I live in:

It is the "Taschenfeitel" ("Tasche" meaning pocket, "Feitel" slang for knife, see attached pics below). A very simple design, just a round wooden handle, no liners, no locking mechanism, no real pivot (blade just pinned in), blade shape featuring a big "hump", a lot like the one the Spyderhole is placed in (no hole of course in the Taschenfeitel, just a nailnick). Normally just about Delica size

When I was a boy in the late seventies and early eighties, almost every boy in the more rural area I was born and raised kept such a knife in his pocket - you really HAD to have one, they came in various colors (I´d always choose a blue one... ;) ) and you could buy them for very little money.

When you look at the attached pics below: It DOES remind a little of the Delica, doesn´t it? Even in the color-choices... ;)

Now the historic, very interesting part:
This type of knife was produced in Austria in the current shape since the SIXTEENTH Century (starting at around 1550) , and they used a type of steel ("Scharschachstahl") that was normally reserved only for weapon manufacturing.

So in some way it is an ancient predecessor of the Delica... ;)

I´d encourage you to post YOUR traditional knifes and Spydercos lookalikes here!
Attachments
Feitel 1.jpg
Feitel 2.jpg
Feitel 2.jpg (5.74 KiB) Viewed 2802 times
Last edited by Wartstein on Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:16 am, edited 3 times in total.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

Mom3ntuM
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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby Mom3ntuM » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:16 am

For me, that Norwegian traditional knife would be the "Telemarks kniven". I have been using that kind of knife from the time i could hold it.
It's probably most used in Telemark and the surrounding areas, but that style of knife where popular in all of Norway.
There where two different types, "brukskniven" - edc for earlier generations. And "Staskniven" - a Nicer knife with ornate bolsters on the knife and sheath, that where used on special occasions.
Altough the sheaths are different the knife is very much like the spyderco Puukko.
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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby Mom3ntuM » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:19 am

1545836485718466.jpg
"bruks kniven" This one is made by my grandfather
1545836485543625.jpg
Side by side with the puuko
1545836485147101.jpg
I don't own a "Staskniven" but This is my sons from when he was born. It is very small :)
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today.
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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby Wartstein » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:44 am

Mom3ntuM wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:16 am
For me, that Norwegian traditional knife would be the "Telemarks kniven". I have been using that kind of knife from the time i could hold it.
It's probably most used in Telemark and the surrounding areas, but that style of knife where popular in all of Norway.
There where two different types, "brukskniven" - edc for earlier generations. And "Staskniven" - a Nicer knife with ornate bolsters on the knife and sheath, that where used on special occasions.
Altough the sheaths are different the knife is very much like the spyderco Puukko.
Thanks for sharing! Very interesting, and very nice knife!
I,ve been to northern Scandinavia (lapland) several times in my twenties, did a lot of hiking. The local guys used to carry knifes like yours in the bush.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby Bill1170 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:30 pm

The pre-Colombian traditional knife here in Southern California would have been something with a stone blade. I’ve never seen one.

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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby Wartstein » Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:58 pm

Bill1170 wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:30 pm
The pre-Colombian traditional knife here in Southern California would have been something with a stone blade. I’ve never seen one.
Thanks for your contribution! A stonebladed Spydie would be quite a things... Imagine the discussions about how to sharpen it and so on... ;)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby vivi » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:58 am

Since I spent many years in the area, I'm going to go with a pattern that goes back to at least the 1600's.

The Hudson Bay Camp Knife.

From what I've read, this pattern was popular with trappers, hunters and frontiersmen in Canada & the US during the 1600's & 1700's. Specifically the Hudson Bay & Great Lakes areas. This was a large camp knife that would be used for skinning game, cutting food, light brush clearing and probably self defense. They were made in Sheffield, England for the HBC.

The knife is a fixed blade with a clip point variation and gently concaved handle with a rounded butt. The blades are typically full flat ground simple carbon steel with a thin spine, making them fairly light for their size. Blades generally 5-9," but I've seen 4" to 14". Handles are most commonly wood.

Here's some examples:

Two of unknown origin from a Fur Trade museum
Image

Bark River
Image

Sheffield
Image

Custom (ML Knives)
Image

Condor (Tempted to buy this one actually)
Image

In fact the camp knife I bought for myself recently is basically a modern interpretation of this pattern.
Current favorites:

Military DLC | Police 4 K390 / Pakkawood | Manix XL M4 DLC / Micarta

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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby Piet.S » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:33 am

In the Netherlands we don't have much of a traditional knife.
Our fathers usualy carried a ''Herder" from Solingen, you may know the type as the Sodbuster.
But in Flanders there was the Lierenaar.
A simple folder from the city of Lier.

Image

Image

Image

There is a version of it in production at Robert Herder from Solingen.

Image

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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby lonerider1013 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:02 am

Not many... Two I could find a pic of were this old school jackknife and a handforged tomohawk someone I know made...
Image
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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby Wartstein » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:13 am

Piet.S wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:33 am
In the Netherlands we don't have much of a traditional knife.
Our fathers usualy carried a ''Herder" from Solingen, you may know the type as the Sodbuster.
But in Flanders there was the Lierenaar.
A simple folder from the city of Lier.

Image
Thanks for sharing, I love to see these old blades... which Spyderco would mirror your knife the most in your opinion? For me it looks like an ancient Native 5 a bit. They just didn´t have opening holes and fingerchoils back than... ;)
Last edited by Wartstein on Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby Wartstein » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:14 am

lonerider1013 wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:02 am
Not many... Two I could find a pic of were this old school jackknife and a handforged tomohawk someone I know made...
Image
Lonerider
This would be the ancient Endura than... look at that Ricasso.. ;)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby Wartstein » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:19 am

Vivi wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:58 am
Since I spent many years in the area, I'm going to go with a pattern that goes back to at least the 1600's.

The Hudson Bay Camp Knife.

From what I've read, this pattern was popular with trappers, hunters and frontiersmen in Canada & the US during the 1600's & 1700's. Specifically the Hudson Bay & Great Lakes areas. This was a large camp knife that would be used for skinning game, cutting food, light brush clearing and probably self defense. They were made in Sheffield, England for the HBC.

The knife is a fixed blade with a clip point variation and gently concaved handle with a rounded butt. The blades are typically full flat ground simple carbon steel with a thin spine, making them fairly light for their size. Blades generally 5-9," but I've seen 4" to 14". Handles are most commonly wood.

Here's some examples:

Two of unknown origin from a Fur Trade museum
Image

Bark River
Image

Sheffield
Image

Custom (ML Knives)
Image

Condor (Tempted to buy this one actually)
Image

In fact the camp knife I bought for myself recently is basically a modern interpretation of this pattern.
Very interesting, thanks!
Spyderco doesn´t produce knifes quite like this, do they? Maybe the Sustain?
I´d like to see a Spydie version of the Hudson bay camp knife, would be cool.

/ So you purchased the Esee 6 HM, right? Esee is way less popular in Europe (where I live) than in the US, but I myelf own a Laser Strike. While I do love the shape and looks of both handle and blade, the 1095 steel does not do it for me. Dulls to quickly imho..
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby Piet.S » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:28 am

Yes Wartstein, I think it does compare well to the Native.
It shares the blade shape, geometry and the robustness.
For people that didn't live up the country, the pocketknife was the best knife they had and was used for very different things.

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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby Wartstein » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:39 am

Piet.S wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:28 am

For people that didn't live up the country, the pocketknife was the best knife they had and was used for very different things.
Exactly like I do with my pocketknife(s)... even if i didn´t HAVE to necessarely... ;)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby lonerider1013 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:06 am

Awesome fixed blades there....artwork really.
Only fixed blade i really got is this one i made from a file a while back. Quite crude but it cuts rope and onions lol.
Image
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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby vivi » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:25 am

Wartstein wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:19 am
Vivi wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:58 am
Since I spent many years in the area, I'm going to go with a pattern that goes back to at least the 1600's.

The Hudson Bay Camp Knife.

From what I've read, this pattern was popular with trappers, hunters and frontiersmen in Canada & the US during the 1600's & 1700's. Specifically the Hudson Bay & Great Lakes areas. This was a large camp knife that would be used for skinning game, cutting food, light brush clearing and probably self defense. They were made in Sheffield, England for the HBC.

The knife is a fixed blade with a clip point variation and gently concaved handle with a rounded butt. The blades are typically full flat ground simple carbon steel with a thin spine, making them fairly light for their size. Blades generally 5-9," but I've seen 4" to 14". Handles are most commonly wood.

Here's some examples:

Two of unknown origin from a Fur Trade museum
Image

Bark River
Image

Sheffield
Image

Custom (ML Knives)
Image

Condor (Tempted to buy this one actually)
Image

In fact the camp knife I bought for myself recently is basically a modern interpretation of this pattern.
Very interesting, thanks!
Spyderco doesn´t produce knifes quite like this, do they? Maybe the Sustain?
I´d like to see a Spydie version of the Hudson bay camp knife, would be cool.

/ So you purchased the Esee 6 HM, right? Esee is way less popular in Europe (where I live) than in the US, but I myelf own a Laser Strike. While I do love the shape and looks of both handle and blade, the 1095 steel does not do it for me. Dulls to quickly imho..
ESEE runs their 1095 a bit soft to prioritize toughness, and 1095 doesn't have amazing edge retention even when pushed to the low 60's RC, so I can understand your impressions.

I always drop the edge angle of my ESEE knives by about 1/3 of what they came from factory, which makes them slice much better. I mostly use mine as camp knives, where they carve wood, do light chopping and batoning, and some food prep. None of those tasks push the edge holding of a knife too much.

Their knives would not be my first choice for breaking down cardboard all day or cutting up carpet.

Maybe I'll make some sort of poll about what people would like from a HBC Camp Knife.
Current favorites:

Military DLC | Police 4 K390 / Pakkawood | Manix XL M4 DLC / Micarta

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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby Wartstein » Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:21 pm

[/quote]

ESEE runs their 1095 a bit soft to prioritize toughness,....
[/quote]

Thanks for the Infos! And I'd like to see you making that poll .
Last edited by Wartstein on Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby Piet.S » Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:25 pm

I must say that I really like those simple old folding knives.
Specialy those with a folded metal handle.
Like the Mercator from Germany.
A midlock with a handle made of pressed steel.
Very useful and without bladeplay.

Image

Which in turn was the inspiration for the DoukDouk from France.
Pressed steel handle, slipjoint and terribly cheap, Great cutter though and easy to sharpen.

Image

And of course, the simplest of them all, the Higonokami.

Image

A knife I liked so much that I made my own version of it.
A bit more sophisticated but still a friction folder.

Image

Image

And there are so many more, like the Opinel, the Nontron and so many more regional knives and of course the unique Balisong.

Image

There is really no end to this subject.

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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:18 pm

My good ole American Case Ridgeback Hunter. I wish Spyderco would make a collaborative model with Case. I guess in a sense the Moran Skinner Blade is just that:



This basic shape can go back all the way to the ancient times.
CaseRidgebackHunter2.jpg

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Re: 16th century "Delica" - and YOUR traditional knifes?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:48 am

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:18 pm
My good ole American Case Ridgeback Hunter. I wish Spyderco would make a collaborative model with Case. I guess in a sense the Moran Skinner Blade is just that:



This basic shape can go back all the way to the ancient times.

CaseRidgebackHunter2.jpg
The design looks great, but quite "modern". And really like some fixed blade Spyderco would produce, just that hole in the blade missing...
/ What I really like about all the knifes depicted in this thread: They show that usefull designs were discovered by skilled knife-makers in some cases many hundred years ago, and were sometimes just kind of "reinvented" in modern days.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40


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