price increase?!

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
ladybug93
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Re: price increase?!

Postby ladybug93 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:53 pm

nope wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:46 pm
.
?

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Bloke
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Re: price increase?!

Postby Bloke » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:01 pm

nope wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:23 pm
Lynn is starving ...
Image
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

500Nitro
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Re: price increase?!

Postby 500Nitro » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:16 pm

nope wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:23 pm
Cold Steel makes g-10 knives with cpms steels using the same Taiwanese labor as Spyderco, but at 75-90 bucks they're $100 cheaper. So either Lynn is starving his workers to death or something else is going on here, like maybe gouging the market because you think you'll be on top forever, hmmmm.
So what ? I mamke things the same as others, almost identical and charge more for them.


"Lynn is starving"

LOL, probably judging by how much he spends on hunting overseas !
(He's been to Australia a few times and hunted with an outfitter I know.
Crazy guy going up against buffalo with a spear! I hunt them and they
will tear you a new arsehole given half a chance).
3 x Endura 1 SE, 1 x Endura ? CE and a Black Pacific Salt. Want Aqua Salt, Fish Hunter and a Pacific Salt Yellow.

Daveho
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Re: price increase?!

Postby Daveho » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:24 pm

nope wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:14 pm
Daveho wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:07 pm
nope wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:51 pm
Evil D wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:24 pm
Nope not feeding this one anymore.
"muh trolls"

A classic excuse people use on internet forums to avoid confronting hard truths. You for example literally complained about how poor sales are taking out so many good knives, but then you turn around and essentially say that no one should be complaining about prices because "muh freedom." You do realize that prices and sales are directly correlated, right? Pretty basic economics. You can't complain about one and then excuse the other.
That’s not a universal truth-
Look at the sales of cars, technology, housing or food for a few examples- lowest price isn’t directly proportionate to highest sales at all.
I think you should be chasing a refund on “muh basic economics class”
The elephant in the room is that the amount and timing of the increases haven’t been addressed- I doubt they will be either as a company isn’t required or even expected to provide that information.
False on everything.

Transportation, communication, housing, and food are necessities, and even then they are determined by price. Disappearance of the middle class? Housing vanishes and renters for life are here. Gas prices collapse? People drive further.

Price directly influences demand. Read a book.
Price is a factor not the only factor for the market at large, your examples appear domestic where as this is an international issue.
You have tried writing off my examples as invalid for your own category of “necessity” which is both irrelevant and incorrect as you have put “technology” into this category which it just isn’t, in fact it’s clear you don’t really have a grip on the subject.

rgrad80
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Re: price increase?!

Postby rgrad80 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:39 pm

nope wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:23 pm
Evil D wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:19 pm
nope wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:51 pm
Evil D wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:24 pm
Nope not feeding this one anymore.
"muh trolls"


Let's just get this one last thing clear...you're not a troll because of your opinion, you're a troll because of this nonsense. Grow up and speak your opinion like an adult and maybe people will take you seriously. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion that isn't popular, but acting like this just turns everyone against you. In the end everyone will forget you were ever here.
Circlejerks like this forum are notoriously fragile when it comes to substantial disagreement.

Cold Steel makes g-10 knives with cpms steels using the same Taiwanese labor as Spyderco, but at 75-90 bucks they're $100 cheaper. So either Lynn is starving his workers to death or something else is going on here, like maybe gouging the market because you think you'll be on top forever, hmmmm.
Solid point.
Days without buying a Spyderco: 35

You always have a choice.

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Tucson Tom
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Re: price increase?!

Postby Tucson Tom » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:55 pm

doberman.jpg
For some reason, I was just thinking about a dog we used to have. Lily was a doberman, and although she was the nicest dog, we never had any trouble with unwanted people coming into our back yard -- even people at the front door were more polite than usual.

Daveho
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Re: price increase?!

Postby Daveho » Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:05 am

Image

You know, I too employ guard critters, they are very sleepy and smell but when they bite... it’s inconvenient to say the least.
Actually ferrets used to be cheaper too, obviously a Big Ferret plot, cats are basically the same and you get them cheaper at the shelter...

TkoK83Spy
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Re: price increase?!

Postby TkoK83Spy » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:47 am

IMG_20150820_080816001_1533731908185.jpeg
19 :spyder:'s in 11 different steels
2 - ZT's - 0460 and 0470
1 - Microtech Ultratech DE OTF

-Rick

hmr
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Re: price increase?!

Postby hmr » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:14 pm

rgrad80 wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:00 pm
hmr wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:36 am
rgrad80 wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:36 am
Prices will keep going up as long as the market can support it. A PM2 is a little piece of metal, a few spacers, screws and some G10, but we clamor to pay $150 every time a new color/steel is put on the market. So, as long as the market says it’s with $150...$160 is not that big of a stretch.

Equating the design and construction of a like a Para-Military 2 to slapping a "piece of metal between two spacers, grab some G-10 and fasten it all together with screws" is an incredibly ignorant viewpoint. If you're truly believe that creating something as lasting as what Spyderco has done is as easy as that, I strongly suggest taking a moment, stepping away from this forum and looking into the logistics of producing an product. I think you'll be blown away.

Thanks for everything you do, Sal.
Great first post:) if you need to start another account to post inflammatory stuff, I can’t really take you seriously kid. Welcome to the forum😂
I assure you, my length on this forum has no bearing on my knowledge of the knife industry or experience in the knife industry.

Last I checked, you were the one who received an edit for inflammatory stuff. The moderators approved my post no problem.

Have a great new years, friend.

Bruce Mack
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Re: price increase?!

Postby Bruce Mack » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:17 am

JonLeBlanc wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:35 pm
I'm not terribly upset over the price increase, it seems minimal to me anyway. Just about the only consumer good that I don't see increasing in price as time goes on is gasoline, and that's currently because the supply of fuel is ramping up worldwide and domestically. To me it's more important that Spyderco maintains quality, maintains a wide range of products, and maintains some jobs in the United States. And that IS what they're doing so...
I like the variety of Spyderco knives as well as the quality. I have a PM2 standard blade, blurple Manix 2, and an exclusive Para 3 with fancy steel. I play with these but really use the Endura 4 in ZDP-189. The pleasure I have with all has been worth the price. I had an issue with the blade of my Endura in VToku which was quickly resolved by the Golden office. Quality, diverse and attractive choices, and company willingness to interact with customers - these please me. No other knife company I know has this spectrum.
Sal and Eric have to sell at a price that supports them and their employees and allows development of future products. I wish them the very best.

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knivesandbooks
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Re: price increase?!

Postby knivesandbooks » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:58 am

Usually, when I want a specific knife or any other thing, I find out how much it costs and then save for it. I may look at cheaper options, and sometimes I do find that there is a cheaper option that satisfies me (usually not with knives, but often with clothing). However, usually when I want something specifically, I save for it and buy it.

And then I'm happy and regret nothing.
And I'm not mad at the person I bought it from.

Also, does a guard cat count?
I own an assisted knife and am embarrassed to admit I enjoy it.

anteck7
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Re: price increase?!

Postby anteck7 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:31 am

First, I'll start with that I want to see Spyderco succeed, they are unique in the market due to the the variety of steels that they use and some great in house designs, that being said, price increases are concerning. I feel that these continued price raises are not taking into account the competition, and will result in pricing themselves out of the market. It's not a question of "Perhaps you just can't afford them" rather its a fact that the market now has equally compelling options at lower price points. You can't expect to raise the dealer sale price of the Chevy Malibu from 30k to 33k and still sell cars if Honda is selling the Accord for 25k down the road.

Without having deep information on Spydercos sales and margins here are some assumptions:
  • Good products at lower prices will take over a market, regardless of country of origin. I.E. Japanese cars. Your personal choice to buy American isn't going to change the market.
    The majority of Spyderco sales are from the commodity models that can be bought at big box stores I.E. Tenacious and PM2
    R&D and spin up costs make up a significant portion of a knifes price
    These commodity models have generally paid back their R/D and spin up costs
    The majority of Spydercos manufacturing is outsourced to other companies in China, Taiwan or Japan
    Sprint runs are generally high profit
Looking at the market I see a few different categories

1. The "Design" house: just produces design and has them produced I.E. Boos Blades
2. The "Manufacturer": just produces knives based to a specification
3. The "Middle Man": Takes a design, refines it, and then has it produced by a manufacturer I.E. Massdrop
3. The "All in one":A company that does almost everything (Design, Manufacturing, et cetera) in house I.E. Benchmade

Spyderco currently is a hybrid it produces some of its own knives in house. However, it also acts like a "Middle Man" taking a Slysz design, tweaking it and having it produced in Taiwan.

So how would I keep prices down and quality up?

Approach 1: Benchmade model
Inhouse everything, don't be reliant on external manufacturers or heavily reliant on external designers. This will shrink the number of models Spyderco offers, but allow better cost control. In addition, this allows Benchmade to offer ridiculous warranty further justifying their higher costs.

Approach 2: Exit Manufacturing
Become a design house and a middle man I.E. Apple. Outsource all production to external companies so you can have dedicated manufacturers compete to produce the designs. Focus on the design side where Spyderco excels.

My current concerns for Spyderco
Generally, I think the knife market is going though a rapid change. Competition is ramping up. Look at the rise of Japanese auto manufacturing in the 70s.

Concern #1: Manufacturers are entering the market
Some of the companies that have probably been behind the scenes are now visible in the market. These companies are now producing their own designs or seeking out designers to produce designs for them. This manufacturer initiated expansion should be of real concern. Spyderco may not be able to compete since it doesn't own most of its manufacturing capacity on the low and high ends.

Concern #2: Designers have a gateway to manufacturers
It seems that Designers have better ways to directly interface with these new manufacturers, I.E. Boos having his knives made by WE. This door is opening more and more. What stops Slysz from having his swayback produced directly by WE bypassing Spyderco?

Concern #3: Cheaper Middle Men
Places like Massdrop are connecting designers to manufactures at much lower costs than Spyderco. I.E. the Laconico Keen is a compelling knife with TI and S35VN for < $150, what does Spyderco have that competes?

Concern #4: Competition at the commodity level
There are a lot of new entrants into the knife market with similar quality and materials Tangram, Civvi, Ruike, and Kershaw being sold at lower price points providing better "value". If a strong competitor such as Civvi got shelf space at big box stores it could really hurt Spyderco's business. I believe Kershaw is responding well to this pressure and producing high quality, USA made knives at approachable under $70 price points

Concern #5: Competition at the high end
Just like the low end, the high end market has become increasingly congested with knives of similar or better quality and materials at lower price points. Kizer, WE, Rike, ZT et cetera. These companies do in house manufacturing which may assist with hitting lower price points. In addition these companies are now working directly with designers to provide innovative designs. They aren't producing ugly ergonomic disasters made out of titanium and S35VN for $150, but rather things like the Kizer T1 or Laconico Keen.

TkoK83Spy
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Re: price increase?!

Postby TkoK83Spy » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:31 am

knivesandbooks wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:58 am
Usually, when I want a specific knife or any other thing, I find out how much it costs and then save for it. I may look at cheaper options, and sometimes I do find that there is a cheaper option that satisfies me (usually not with knives, but often with clothing). However, usually when I want something specifically, I save for it and buy it.

And then I'm happy and regret nothing.
And I'm not mad at the person I bought it from.

Also, does a guard cat count?
I'm the same way, and feel that's how everyone should look at it. Don't put yourself in a bind, save and buy it when your comfortable. Pretty simple!

That being said, I've been drooling over the Kapara for a month now but haven't pulled the trigger because of the expenses of the holiday season. I could have had it for $153 with the most recent eBay coupon and offer made...but decided to hold out. Plus now I'm debating that DLT Manix exclusive coming out on Jan 15th. Can't get both though!
19 :spyder:'s in 11 different steels
2 - ZT's - 0460 and 0470
1 - Microtech Ultratech DE OTF

-Rick

steeljustice
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Re: price increase?!

Postby steeljustice » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:51 am

When do prices normally increase in a new year?

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sal
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Re: price increase?!

Postby sal » Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:54 pm

Hi Anteck, Steeljustice,

Welcome to our forum.

We appreciate all of the input and suggestions.

sal

steeljustice
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Re: price increase?!

Postby steeljustice » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:13 pm

Hi Sal I have watched your great videos and have learned a lot about many of the Spyderco knives.
I am a big fan of Spyderco already have a Pm2 that I enjoy using everyday, I have broken in so I can snap it closed one handed.
It's a really safe closing knife with no fingers near the blade, such a quality Design with great Engineering.
I also have a Golden Stone and waiting for the 3" by 8" stone to arrive, I am learning to sharpen my knife.
I have been watching this forum and though it was time to join my Spyderco brothers and sisters, I thank you for allowing me to join and making me feel welcome.

Sumdumguy
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Re: price increase?!

Postby Sumdumguy » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:50 pm

Tucson Tom wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:55 pm
doberman.jpg

For some reason, I was just thinking about a dog we used to have. Lily was a doberman, and although she was the nicest dog, we never had any trouble with unwanted people coming into our back yard -- even people at the front door were more polite than usual.
My Pitbull has the same effect. I wouldn't call her nice though. She's a pleasure if she knows you. If she doesn't, I would not recommend entering my yard :P
She stays lock stepped next to my daughter at all times outside.

Off topic goodness!

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NickShabazz
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Re: price increase?!

Postby NickShabazz » Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:48 pm

Will there be any specific targeted price increases or decreases (e.g. the Shaman getting more expensive in 2018 beyond the MAP and other price hikes affecting all models)? Or is this affecting all models equally and in the same direction? Also, will previously announced models (e.g. the Paysan, Drunken) release at their announced price, or a price that's 10% higher?
Mourning the Slysz Bowie and loving the rest of Spyderco's gems. Check out my reviews at https://www.youtube.com/c/nickshabazz!

TkoK83Spy
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Re: price increase?!

Postby TkoK83Spy » Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:01 pm

I was wondering the same as Nick, but regarding the Smock.
19 :spyder:'s in 11 different steels
2 - ZT's - 0460 and 0470
1 - Microtech Ultratech DE OTF

-Rick

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sal
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Re: price increase?!

Postby sal » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:19 pm

Price increases are always based on cost increases. We'll see new prices in a few days.

sal


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