Batoning, SMH...

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ZMW
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Batoning, SMH...

Postby ZMW » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:56 pm

Batoning with a folder is dumb, right? We all have seen the abuse videos and realistically that should never happen. Well, I found myself in a jam, long story, and had to use my CF/Ti s90 millie. I am not sure what type of wood it was (we have mostly pine in AZ), but it seemed like hard stuff. I did not hold back and batoned the hell out of the knife. Knife and framelook are 100%, still perfect. The lock was engaged, which I know is a no no, but I was moving fast and just went for it. No blade play at all.

I do not plan on doing that again, but I am impressed with how tough that knife is! Good to know the knife is a real user and not just a pretty face.

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Pelagic
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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby Pelagic » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:08 pm

Wow! While ffg isn't the best for splitting, at least it would take less pressure for it to pass through the wood. S90v in itself isn't a good choice for batoning, let alone that beautiful knife. Glad it turned out ok. It is certainly a tough knife. Sometimes you have no hatchet or axe and must get to dry wood.
Last edited by Pelagic on Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Evil D
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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby Evil D » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:17 pm

Leave the blade unlocked and only hit the spine and you'll be fine. I've batoned with a Svord Peasant with no problems.
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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby DBCOOPER » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:19 am

I make my own bows and I baton the general shape, and for a while I only used my s110v pm2 for battoning all the rough cutouts, I did this with the lock disengaged while holding the choil, which I found was the perfect knife for doing so, it never broke and for a while it was do or die with that knife (for the knife not me, my life didn't depend on it xD it was just a hobby) and it actually never broke to my surprise, not even the tip which is where I batoned as I got farther into a cut as there was no way to hit the spine, I also batoned my tenacious quite a bit before I gifted it to a friend, but I always used that one lock engaged, cuz I didn't know about having the lock disengaged at that time, and it's lock failed pretty much every hit hahaha
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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby DBCOOPER » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 am

Also I still own that pm2 and it is still rock solid and I've never taken it apart nor tightened a thing on that knife, and I usually take apart most of my knives or at least tighten something, I'd say most knives can handle a good batoning despite what people may think or say about it, I've done it with all my knives besides my police 4
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JonLeBlanc
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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby JonLeBlanc » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:52 am

I've never done it but if I HAD to, I hope I'd have my Military on me!
My collection so far: 52100 Military (2); 52100 PM2 (2); 52100 Para3; Stretch2 V-Toku; KnifeWorks M4 PM2; BentoBox M390 PM2; BentoBox S90V Military; Police4 K390; S110V PM2; SS Delica AUS-6; Wayne Goddard Sprint VG-10
Wish list: Hundred Pacer; Sliverax; Mantra; 52100 PM2 SE; Kapara

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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby Smaug » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:59 pm

I don't understand the need to EVER baton with a knife. To me, it's just a durability test for people who want to see how much abuse their knife can take.

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Evil D
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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby Evil D » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:08 pm

Smaug wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:59 pm
I don't understand the need to EVER baton with a knife. To me, it's just a durability test for people who want to see how much abuse their knife can take.

Lots of people don't understand the need to EVER carry a knife. Different strokes for different folks. I don't personally have a realistic need for it but it helps to know how to do it properly and safely and if your knife can (nearly any knife can if you do it right).
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Pelagic
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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby Pelagic » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:31 pm

Smaug wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:59 pm
I don't understand the need to EVER baton with a knife. To me, it's just a durability test for people who want to see how much abuse their knife can take.
I guess it would depend on how badly you needed a fire under certain conditions. The actual practical reason for batoning is getting to dry wood for firestarting. I'm sure we all try to leave prepared when we head out into the woods, especially when it comes to blades. I have a large machete in 1055 that I prefer over a hatchet (it's much lighter to carry and can chop down any tree) when hiking, a fixed blade in 3v, and a folder or 2, along with sharpening supplies. I always liked how the boy scout motto was "Be prepared". But occasionally we find ourselves in situations where we don't have the perfect tool for the job and must deal. I've only had my Ti/CF military a week and it's my baby. I'd probably whittle an entire log into shavings before I batoned with it, lol. But that's just me. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do.
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Wartstein
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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby Wartstein » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:51 pm

I am impressed... Never dared to baton a folder, and my Millie would be the last of my knifes I´d choose for that, since I always hear that the Liner-Lock is the weakest type of lock...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby vivi » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:54 pm

Smaug wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:59 pm
I don't understand the need to EVER baton with a knife. To me, it's just a durability test for people who want to see how much abuse their knife can take.
Its a convenient way to get dry firewood or roughly shape chunks of wood before carving a tool. Its just one more way to cut things.

For splitting logs an axe or hatchet is obviously better, but sometimes you don't have one on you and simply don't feel like carrying two tools that can do the same job.

Any stout fixed blade should have no problems with it, especially a carbon steel chopper. My reprofiled Aqua Salt and Scrapyard Dogfather have been batoned for a decade with no ill effects.

I've done it with a lot of folders too. Opinels, Victorinox Nylon Solo, Manix XL, etc. I don't do it on a regular basis with them, but I wouldn't shy away from using my EDC folders to break down 2-3" wide chunks of fatwood into thinner sticks to start a fire.

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Wartstein
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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby Wartstein » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:00 pm

Evil D wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:08 pm
Smaug wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:59 pm
I don't understand the need to EVER baton with a knife. To me, it's just a durability test for people who want to see how much abuse their knife can take.

Lots of people don't understand the need to EVER carry a knife. Different strokes for different folks. I don't personally have a realistic need for it but it helps to know how to do it properly and safely and if your knife can (nearly any knife can if you do it right).
If you are prepared properly batoning with a folder is probably never the best option, right.
Batoning with a fixed blade is another story imho: I do it frequently with my White River Backpacker Pro (which is really small for a Fixed): I am in the outdoors a lot, mostly mountaineering; So carryweight is a real issue, and I almost never bring a hatchet; Starting a fire outdoors or in an oven in a mountain hut is much easyer when you can split branches by batoning them. So you get kindling and to the dry sections of the wood.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Wartstein
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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby Wartstein » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:03 pm

Vivi wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:54 pm
Smaug wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:59 pm
I don't understand the need to EVER baton with a knife. To me, it's just a durability test for people who want to see how much abuse their knife can take.
Its a convenient way to get dry firewood or roughly shape chunks of wood before carving a tool. Its just one more way to cut things.

For splitting logs an axe or hatchet is obviously better, but sometimes you don't have one on you and simply don't feel like carrying two tools that can do the same job.

Any stout fixed blade should have no problems with it, especially a carbon steel chopper. My reprofiled Aqua Salt and Scrapyard Dogfather have been batoned for a decade with no ill effects.

I've done it with a lot of folders too. Opinels, Victorinox Nylon Solo, Manix XL, etc. I don't do it on a regular basis with them, but I wouldn't shy away from using my EDC folders to break down 2-3" wide chunks of fatwood into thinner sticks to start a fire.
I stated almost the same as you did here in my post below yours. Did read yours only afterwards, so I did not wanna "copy" it ;)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby Tucson Tom » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:54 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:51 pm
I am impressed... Never dared to baton a folder, and my Millie would be the last of my knifes I´d choose for that, since I always hear that the Liner-Lock is the weakest type of lock...
Well, if you do what they say, the lock doesn't matter since you would do the pounding without the lock engaged. Even if it was, the handle would not be part of the game, it would just be vibrating and so forth. But I have yet to do any batoning or had a need to. We were talking about possibly batoning bears on one trip, but none showed up.

If I was actually planning to do some batoning, I would use a big Ontario knife fixed blade I have. An RD6 with 3/16 inch thick 1095 -- that should do OK.

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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby Smaug » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:47 pm

Why not just get smaller branches?

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Pelagic
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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby Pelagic » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:07 pm

Smaug wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:47 pm
Why not just get smaller branches?
That's what I'd do if conditions were dry, but this isn't always the case.
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?

vivi
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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby vivi » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:21 pm

Smaug wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:47 pm
Why not just get smaller branches?
Maybe they're wet, rotted, etc.

You can split a single chunk of wood the width of your palm and have everything you need for a fire. Split it into quarters and keep two pieces for when the fire is blazing. Split the two leftover pieces into 8 pieces for kindling. Take one of those 8 pieces and whittle some wood shavings for tinder. Then scrape a piece for some dust that will easily catch spark from a ferro rod.

That can be a lot more convenient than trying to walk around and find all of those things on a rainy hike.

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Wartstein
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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby Wartstein » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:34 am

Tucson Tom wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:54 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:51 pm
I am impressed... Never dared to baton a folder, and my Millie would be the last of my knifes I´d choose for that, since I always hear that the Liner-Lock is the weakest type of lock...
Well, if you do what they say, the lock doesn't matter since you would do the pounding without the lock engaged. Even if it was, the handle would not be part of the game, it would just be vibrating and so forth. But I have yet to do any batoning or had a need to. We were talking about possibly batoning bears on one trip, but none showed up.

If I was actually planning to do some batoning, I would use a big Ontario knife fixed blade I have. An RD6 with 3/16 inch thick 1095 -- that should do OK.
Thinking about it, you are totally right... So I consider to use my Endura instead of small Fixed for batoning in the future... As said, carry weight is often an issue for me so I do not bring a big blade or hatchet too often. And the batoning I do is most times only very light stuff... just splitting some branches or logs of diameter under 2 inches maximum to get to the dry core and make kindling
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Wartstein
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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby Wartstein » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:40 am

Pelagic wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:07 pm
Smaug wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:47 pm
Why not just get smaller branches?
That's what I'd do if conditions were dry, but this isn't always the case.
Yeah, thats the main reason. But additionally on mountain huts there are often times prepared logs of wood, but too big to start a fire. Batoning them with a small knife is the best way to produce kindling. Often times I take one of that kindlings, turn it into a featherstick, light it with a match and use it to start a fire in the oven, when the fire starte wood inside the oven is hard to reach with a short match.
I have too add: For batoning rather small logs of wood a butter knife does the job also. So if the mountain hut is a comfortable one and features silver ware, I´d take a butter knife. So I do not risk that my harder steel blades chip.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Batoning, SMH...

Postby Sonorum » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:08 am

Being younger and more stupid than I am now, I once batoned a ~two inch stick with my PM2. The lock failed instantly and now you can see a slight chip on the tang of the blade where the lock bar meets the blade. Doesn't affect the lock in any practical sense now but it's not pretty.
So yeah, don't baton a folding knife with the lock engaged.
Loads of spydies, and a few others as well


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