Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

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ugaarguy
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Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby ugaarguy » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:43 am

With the discontinuation of the Sage 2, the tiny little Cricket is the only in house designed Spyderco framelock left in the lineup. Everything else is a designer collaboration. In my time here it seems that most Spyderco fans don't like framelocks, or the R.I.L. in Spyderco speak. I'm curious as to why that is. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

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Vivi
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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby Vivi » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:58 am

Three reasons.

1. No detent based lock keeps the knife closed safely for my uses and carry methods. I have had frame locks, comp locks and liner locks come open while carrying them. I refuse to buy any more of them for that reason alone.

2. Frame locks generally have steel scales. I prefer the warmth and grip of micarta or G10.

3. They're easy to unlock by accident

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Tims
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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby Tims » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:57 am

I like framelocks, I find them a joy to use but I find they’re only suitable for tip up pocket carry for the reason Vivi stated.
I like IWB carry too and tip down, backlock Spydercos are the only thing I feel confident clipping to my waistband due to the strong detent.

Edit:
Another reason I don’t like SOME framelocks is the lack of a lock bar insert. Not so much for the replaceable lock bar but for the detent ball. If I can’t replace the detent ball(easily) I feel like every time I use the knife its a step closer to the end of it’s life. I’ve had a few detent balls flatten off over the years and it sucks. That’s also my biggest grips with compression locks. I only own 1 comp’ lock, a para 2 and I hardly use it because I know once that tiny steel ball wears away I’ll have to replace it. I like diy but I’m too fussy to be putting in new detent balls. It rustles my OCD.

Speaking of lock faces. I like a steep lock interface on the blade to avoid the lock bar travelling to the oppositing scale. I’ve had that on plenty of knives too and when it happens that knife is dead to me.

So to avoid all those dramas I really appreciate lock backs where the only thing I have to deal with is lock rock. But thats a story for snother time.

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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby The Deacon » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:33 am

Three reasons, the first two shared with Walker style liner locks which I'm not fond of either.

1. They are handed locks and thus, inevitably, almost always wrong handed locks.

2. Zero bias to closing and reliance on a tiny ball bearing riding in a shallow dimple to keep them closed.

3. Cosmetics, framelocks look unfinished, as if they're wearing their insides on their outsides. In addition the two sides do not match and rarely even come close to matching.
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anagarika
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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby anagarika » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:09 am

Same reason as Deacon & Vivi,

Further is the asymmetrical feel as I like my knives ambidextrous. Same reason I haven’t got any comp lock. My OCD hates knowing one side is weaker, because the liner is cut.

A lot of frame locks have the pivot ‘hanging’ on the lock side because the lock cutout is wide, the the center of the pivot is on the side that isn’t connected to the butt of the handle like this: https://www.gpknives.com/boker-plus-vox ... bo336.html
The pivot is hanging off the frame that holds the whole knife, which makes it worse IMO.
I haven’t seen any Spyderco like this, and Sebenza also doesn’t have this design weakness.
Some like this is even better:
https://www.knifecenter.com/item/BM765/ ... um-handles

Having said that, I don’t like asymmetrical handle.

Strangely, Military with it’s ‘insert’ liner lock doesn’t bother me as the strength of both sides are by the G10. If only it doesn’t have that release cut out making it feel asymmetrical.
The only liner lock I keep is GB1 and the ball is flattened, about 1/4 of the ball radius.
Last edited by anagarika on Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Sharp Guy
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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby Sharp Guy » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:24 am

ugaarguy wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:43 am
With the discontinuation of the Sage 2, the tiny little Cricket is the only in house designed Spyderco framelock left in the lineup. Everything else is a designer collaboration.
Eric Glesser designed the Mantra 2. That's still available.
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Spydergirl88
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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby Spydergirl88 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:43 am

Prefer comp lock or back lock
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Evil D
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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby Evil D » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:56 am

I like them just fine. I'm more concerned with ergonomics than lock choice.
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ChrisinHove
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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby ChrisinHove » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:33 am

I don’t dislike framelocks but I don’t like all framelocks.

My fluted Ti Military is a big favourite.

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curlyhairedboy
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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby curlyhairedboy » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:47 am

My main issues with framelocks have to do with the ti-on-steel interfaces found on some models. It leads to possibly severe lockstick, and lowered durability.

I don't have a problem with steel linerlocks and Ti framelocks with lockbar inserts.

Still, linerlocks and framelocks do put your fingers in way of the closing blade, so that's one more reason why comp locks are my favorite.
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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby Doc Dan » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:16 am

Vivi wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:58 am
Three reasons.

1. No detent based lock keeps the knife closed safely for my uses and carry methods. I have had frame locks, comp locks and liner locks come open while carrying them. I refuse to buy any more of them for that reason alone.

2. Frame locks generally have steel scales. I prefer the warmth and grip of micarta or G10.

3. They're easy to unlock by accident
I concur and I will also add that frame locks and liner locks can fail under hard use as pointed out somewhat in #3. They can also open accidentally in your pocket or purse and cause serious injuries. All of this is well known but people keep demanding them.
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Cscottsss
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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby Cscottsss » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:49 am

I've never had an issue with my ZT 0562cf or 0450cf framelocks coming open by accident.

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Jazz
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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby Jazz » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:51 am

I don’t trust them as far as I can throw them. I do have a couple, and some liner locks, but give me a back lock any day.
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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby spyderwolf » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:57 am

They are usually steel or titanium,which i dont like,and most of them don't have an over travel stop-those who have are very expensive.So i will always choose a liner over a frame lock.
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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby zhyla » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:02 am

Titanium is expensive. Steel is heavy.

I disagree on the accidental opening issue — detentes can be strong enough (they have to be on a flipper), so maybe we just need to complain when they aren’t.

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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby DSH007 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:11 am

I don't like frame locks "in theory," for many of the reasons listed here.. that said, my Brouwer has become one of my all-time favorite Spydercos. I bought it mostly because I appreciated the design aesthetic, but I did initially have some trepidation over the frame lock. These concerns turned out to be unfounded.. the detent is strong enough to ease any fear of the blade opening in the pocket, and the presence of a full index finger choil on the blade beneath the sharpened edge makes me feel like, when gripped using the choil as intended, the blade would remain in an open (safe) position should the lock ever fail for whatever reason during normal use.

I suppose, like pretty much everything, it all comes down to personal preference.. given the choice, gun to my head, the frame lock would not be my first pick for a locking knife. But I do believe that a well-made frame lock knife is as "safe" as is needed for the average user. I mean, let's be honest, we're talking about sharp things here, there is some inherent danger involved.. safe handling and a little common sense go a long way to keeping your fingers intact.
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Mako109
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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby Mako109 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:42 am

Depending on maker, I really enjoy framelocks, though not to the exclusion of other lock types. I may be among the minority who like the “mechanical” looks of framelocks enough to consider that side to be the show side of the knife.

As others have alluded, understand the capabilities of your knife and work smartly and safely within its limits. My framelocks have never let me down (nor have my other lock types).

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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby murphjd25 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:50 am

I love em.
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RobDigi
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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby RobDigi » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:18 am

I don't hate frame locks,
but my preference is
back
compression
button
axis
frame
liner
in that order.
On a well made knife they should all be safe or you need a fixed blade.

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Re: Why Don't You Like Framelocks?

Postby JimP » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:30 pm

I like a well made/designed framelock but have become very picky and wary over time as there is so much variation in effectiveness from manufacturer to manufacturer and even knife to knife. They now have to pass a couple of simple tests to stay around.


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