Compression Lock Millie?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.

Compression Lock on the Military?

Yes
53
53%
No
40
40%
I don't care as long as it is a Military
7
7%
 
Total votes: 100

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Crux
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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby Crux » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:08 pm

Crux wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:07 pm
This is a repost from another thread that is pertinent here, or whatever that means.
If they made a Para 3 with a chocolate (dark and a little sea salt) blade I'd be the first one in line to buy it. Elmax is a no brainer, but why do you bring tariffs into this polite conversation? I'm thinking you missed the definitive chart posted in another thread that clearly details whether you should buy any given knife, which is clearly bordering on phycological technical stuff I slept through, but kinda remember in scattered dreams. The chart shows that yes you should buy that knife. I really can't see any other option.

I say, along with an estimate of close to 20-50 million others, if it's a Para 3 then it can't be wrong. 50 million might possibly say YES PARA 3!

The PM2 shines as well and is 99.2% not wrong, closely behind the Para 3 with Granddad Millie, Military for those that have had it so long they forgot what it's really called or pretty much the rest of us :) . The compromise I suggest, after being dragged out to a bar (don't judge), is that the Military should stay the same. If anything add a bayonet lug. :)
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Sharp Guy
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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby Sharp Guy » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:32 pm

tuezh wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:17 pm
Definitely, liner lock is not user friendly for lefties that has been what stops me from buying a military.
I'll never understand this. I can close any of my liner/frame locks with my left hand as easy as I can my right. Even my Gayle Bradley is fairly easy to close left-handed.
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby jezabel » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:53 am

Sharp Guy wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:32 pm
tuezh wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:17 pm
Definitely, liner lock is not user friendly for lefties that has been what stops me from buying a military.
I'll never understand this. I can close any of my liner/frame locks with my left hand as easy as I can my right. Even my Gayle Bradley is fairly easy to close left-handed.
I dont understand this either... since there are left handed Millies!
Last edited by jezabel on Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ez556
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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby Ez556 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:32 am

I’ll start by saying I don’t know if any changes would “make me buy” a military, because it’s a little long for my taste, but I will say a compression lock paired with tip down carry capability would make the Military much more compelling to me. Enough so it may go on my wish list. I don’t have a problem with a liner lock, I quite like them actually, it’s just that a comp lock is cooler I guess. I can go anywhere and get a liner lock knife, comp locks are more special to Spyderco though. I can certainly agree however that with thick gloves on a liner lock may be much more desired as I can perfectly operate a Tenacious one handed with thick winter gloves on with its big hole and liner lock. And in regards to safety, as I said I like liner locks and have no problem operating them as fast as I want and have never cut myself, but the only two people I handed the Tenacious to when I was borrowing it from my dad cut themselves closing it to give it back... I’d say someone is more likely to cut themselves with a liner lock haha. So yeah, I would like to see a compression lock (and four way clip) Military though I don’t demand it. I do like the idea of a PM2 XL more maybe so that you don’t molest the Military itself and take away the benefits it gives to people who want the liner lock.
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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby Gevatter » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:23 am

The Stop Lock on the Parata looks interesting and safe. If it is play free and the design stays the same(lefthanded clip incl.) the Military 2 will finally be one of the best folding knives ever.

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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:32 am

JD Spydo wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:49 am
With all due respect this has come up before>> but I don't know what would be gained switching lock systems on the C-36 Military model. And I like the compression lock on the Para2 in particular. But to me it would be like putting a ball bearing lock on a Native model>> sure it would improve the model somewhat>> but why???

I've said so many times before on subjects like this "If It Isn't Broke Then Let's Not Try To Fix It" ;) And quite frankly I think the MILLIE is doing just fine the way the original designers drew it up.

Again the liner lock just continues to get a bad rap for no reason at all. I've never had a liner lock of Spyderco's, Benchmade's, Boker's or any other premium knife maker ever fail me. So it's just not Broke and it doesn't need fixing IMO.
Agree 10000000%

I have had the compression lock release in use on the PM2 because of where it feels comfortable in the hand.

My Thumb tends to want to be where the compression lock is. I got very lucky when the blade got bound and I was pulling it back and up the blade collapsed because of where my thumb was, at the time I had inadvertently put pressure on the release and allowed the blade to close.

Fortunately the choil area closed on my finger and not the blade. This is due to the great design of the knife.

The lock did not fail. I failed to keep my thumb away from the release.

Prior to this incident the Compression Lock was my favorite and influenced my purchase decisions greatly, after this incident I saw it as the potential liability it is and whenever I see a knife with it I tend to shy away from it.

The MIlitary with it's liner lock is much more secure in that the harder you grip it the less likely it is you are going to disengage the lock and you can place your thumb where it feels comfortable along the back without concern over tripping the release.

If anything a liner lock on the PM2 would be a better direction for harder use knives. It is not as fun for those flipping and playing with blades, it is not as convenient for closing but it is more secure.
:spyder: Make Mine Spyderco :spyder:

I have tried many different High End brands and only Spyderco consistently produces High Quality Knives with the most Innovative Steels and Incredible Designs and often for less money than others.

I have been surprised many times by Sal's design in the dark philosophy and agree with it. How it feels in the hand and how it cuts matters more than how it looks. Lipstick on a pig, does not make it something other than a pig.

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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby VashHash » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:15 am

I find the comp lock to be more secure but that's all based on opinion. I would like to see larger comp lock blades and I enjoy the military's ergos. I've never had either spyderco fail on me I just like the comp lock more. I'd even settle for a larger para. Not sure what they would call it if it's the same size as the military though. The szabo is nice and all but it's not a slicer like the p2 or military. Definitely a big chunk of knife in the pocket.

I feel for harder use the liner lock isn't the way to go. Backlock or comp lock seems to be a better option. Even a frame lock. Of course spyderco has said in the past they can make any lock as strong as they want. So it comes down to preference and liner locks aren't my preference.

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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby James Y » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:52 am

While liner locks are not my favorite locking mechanism, the ones on my Militaries are the best examples of liner locks I have ever had. Much of it has to do with the geometry on the blade tang's mating surface with the liner, but there are other factors as well.

I generally like the compression lock far more than liner locks, but as far as changing the Military, I'm not so sure. A compression lock might be longer-wearing/longer-lasting, but I've never worn out the liner locks on my Militaries...though to be fair, I've never carried and used any of my Militaries exclusively for extended periods of time.

Jim

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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby DBCOOPER » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:41 pm

I recently have been thinking about a purchase of a military, but I change my mind due to having owned a pm2 first, I've always liked the subtle details that make the pm2 better that always make me change my mind, that and I like the comp lock, if they were to make a pm2 xl I'd definitely buy one or two, ever sense I got a police 4 I've loved a bigger blade, but I prefer the bck lock to the liner lock, and prefer the comp lock to the liner lock, tho it's most likely hopeful thinking
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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby Pelagic » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:07 pm

I wonder what people would say if the question was asked "liner lock pm2?"

Or, what people's opinions would be if the military has always been a compression lock, and the pm2 always a liner lock. Would the community be against change? Would the Military be more popular than it is now? Would big blades be more popular altogether? Would liner locks be more popular than they are today because the pm2 is such a highly acclaimed model?

These concepts turn my gears.
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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby James Y » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:36 pm

I actually find the Military more comfortable in hand than the PM2. I also find my PM3 more comfortable than the PM2.

Jim

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Vivi
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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby Vivi » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:02 pm

DBCOOPER wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:41 pm
I recently have been thinking about a purchase of a military, but I change my mind due to having owned a pm2 first, I've always liked the subtle details that make the pm2 better that always make me change my mind, that and I like the comp lock, if they were to make a pm2 xl I'd definitely buy one or two, ever sense I got a police 4 I've loved a bigger blade, but I prefer the bck lock to the liner lock, and prefer the comp lock to the liner lock, tho it's most likely hopeful thinking
I think a Para XL makes more sense than a comp lock millie. Four way clip, deeper index choil, comp lock etc. are nice refinements. I also wonder how well such a knife would sell given the popularity of the rest of the Para line.

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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby Crux » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:19 pm

James Y wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:36 pm
I actually find the Military more comfortable in hand than the PM2. I also find my PM3 more comfortable than the PM2.

Jim
Woah, don't throw that out there. You just trying to trick me into a Millie.
Can you find it and can it cut? :eek:

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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby anycal » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:45 pm

Vivi wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:02 pm
I think a Para XL makes more sense than a comp lock millie. Four way clip, deeper index choil, comp lock etc. are nice refinements. I also wonder how well such a knife would sell given the popularity of the rest of the Para line.
I agree.

I love both PM2 and Military. Having a few, I am not looking to get more.

But a different version of either one would definitely force me to pick up more. Larger PM2 would be my preference.
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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby Pelagic » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:51 pm

I would be ALL OVER a Para XL. I'd take it larger than the military!
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Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
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You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby Lost Jaguar » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:34 am

4 1/2" blade, compression lock, and 4-way pocket clip...call it a Military 2 or a Para 2 Xl, just don't call me too late to buy one!

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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:52 pm

VashHash wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:15 am
I find the comp lock to be more secure but that's all based on opinion. I would like to see larger comp lock blades and I enjoy the military's ergos. I've never had either spyderco fail on me I just like the comp lock more. I'd even settle for a larger para. Not sure what they would call it if it's the same size as the military though. The szabo is nice and all but it's not a slicer like the p2 or military. Definitely a big chunk of knife in the pocket.

I feel for harder use the liner lock isn't the way to go. Backlock or comp lock seems to be a better option. Even a frame lock. Of course spyderco has said in the past they can make any lock as strong as they want. So it comes down to preference and liner locks aren't my preference.
I have never had a Spyderco fail on me either but I have triggered the release on a PM2 with compression lock accidentally while in use. Only the design of the blade prevented serious injury.

The test depicted in the you-tube link below performed by Blade HQ is about as non-real world as can be imagined but does demonstrate the failures of locks and what happens when they do.

https://youtu.be/ERxHUXAFVs4?t=710

If you will note they all fail at different rates but out of all the lock types only the Liner Lock fails but would protect the hand of the user because out of all the lock failures it is the only one where the blade did not collapse into what would be the users fingers.

Liner lock was the only lock to fail stuck open. This speaks to the only practical use for a locking knife. Safety.

Lock back was so strong the steel of the knife broke first which really says something for FRN. It however failed the first round of tests because it's release was pressed by the sliding cable.

While I love the compression lock it's release is vulnerable to mishandling (Misplaced Thumb) by the end user and is it's only practical drawback.

I conclude that while the compression lock is very strong as is the lock-back they both suffer the same inherent safety liability issue.

They are both located on the back of the handle they can both be released by inadvertent pressure being placed on the release, most lock-backs tend to be pretty stiff so this is not as likely to happen the release on a compression lock however requires very little effort and any lateral movement against it (especially by the thumb) will result in release at very low pressure.

Sal chose wisely when creating the Military with a liner lock. Frame lock has already been done with the Titanium Millies.

The only possible change I could think of is to produce the military as a lock back (Adding Weight) or to beef up the pressure required to release a compression lock.

Liner locks are not my preference nor are frame locks, or bolt or ball-bearing all of these locks require fingers near the blade to close so less than ideal, but my true preference is when a knife is locked it remains that way and will not close on my fingers.

Sadly my favorite lock type the compression lock was and is to this day the only one that ever has. In my experience this is a poor trade.

In preference it goes like this in order.

#1. Compression Lock Favorite of all time keeps fingers out of the way while closing but not safe from accidental closure.

#2. Back Lock helps get the fingers out of the way while closing and very strong can be accidentally released however unlikely and also keeps blade positively closed when in pocket.

#3. Liner Locks and Frame Locks very close in function so rate them equally. Virtually no chance of accidental closure of blade on fingers but good chance of cutting fingers during closure of the blade.

#4. Ball Bearing Lock and Bolt lock have owned both, both are neat but can be difficult to open and close requiring some force and lends towards dropping the knife when trying to keep fingers out of the area of closure.

So anyway with an improved version of the existing Compression Lock Sure I would buy a military with a compression lock but not with the way the compression lock is now.
:spyder: Make Mine Spyderco :spyder:

I have tried many different High End brands and only Spyderco consistently produces High Quality Knives with the most Innovative Steels and Incredible Designs and often for less money than others.

I have been surprised many times by Sal's design in the dark philosophy and agree with it. How it feels in the hand and how it cuts matters more than how it looks. Lipstick on a pig, does not make it something other than a pig.

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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:59 pm

BTW Sal :spyder: and Eric :spyder: I have a way to improve the safety of the compression lock but it will cost you a custom made Spyderco of my choice. :D

I guarantee you, it is a dead simple solution. ;) Yer gonna Love it!
:spyder: Make Mine Spyderco :spyder:

I have tried many different High End brands and only Spyderco consistently produces High Quality Knives with the most Innovative Steels and Incredible Designs and often for less money than others.

I have been surprised many times by Sal's design in the dark philosophy and agree with it. How it feels in the hand and how it cuts matters more than how it looks. Lipstick on a pig, does not make it something other than a pig.

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Vivi
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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby Vivi » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:12 pm

Cliff Stamp had issues with the Millies liner lock opening while torquing the knife to split apart wood. I recreated the issue with my own Millie at the time. I remember being surprised by his results and wanted to see it happen for myself, as the Millie was my EDC back then and I had 100% faith in the lock.

I never had the lock release during regular use, but I can see how the large cut-out can be a concern when twisting the knife around during hard cutting tasks.

Image

I'd take a comp lock over a liner lock for hard use, partially for that reason. During hard cutting tasks I'm usually wrapping my thumb around the handle, so it'd be very difficult to release the lock with side to side pressure. My thumbs are so long they never sit on the lock release, even gripping say, my Szabo Folder behind the index choil.

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rwasham
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Re: Compression Lock Millie?

Postby rwasham » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:06 pm

I would buy a compression lock military, but I don't have a preference against the liner lock. What I would really love to see is for spyderco to drill and tap the military for tip up carry


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