Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

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steelcity16
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#361

Post by steelcity16 »

Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:17 am
Sal, If possible we gotta have the Paramilitary 2, Para 3 and Military treatment on this steel and I'll always ask for micarta if possible. I feel like we are running out of G10 colors and 15v needs something to show it's special.
I'm thinking black canvas for this one.

Image

If only one knife is possible, it would have to be the Pm2

I'd like to see the Manix 2 LW fill more of the role of the mule team.

However, I feel that for 15v, the knife is already going to be expensive to produce much like Maxamet so I'd rather have the features the pm2 offers over the Manix 2 LW.

15v in a PM2 would be the the full package.

I hope you were able to make your design in black micarta! Any hints on materials, blade length, lock type?
:bug-white-red CRU-CARTA THE SEKI MODELS! :bug-white-red AND BRING US THE DODO-FLY! :bug-white-red
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#362

Post by ZrowsN1s »

There is no knife I am more exited for. Something to look forward to in 2021.
-Matt a.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135 I ❤ The P'KAL :bug-red

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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#363

Post by Woodpuppy »

sal wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:21 am
Eric said he was going to fit it into the Queue for US production. Will still be a while though as we're pretty backed up.

sal
That is a good problem to have! Keep on keepin’ on!
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#364

Post by Deadboxhero »

"edc" size
steelcity16 wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:39 am
Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:17 am
Sal, If possible we gotta have the Paramilitary 2, Para 3 and Military treatment on this steel and I'll always ask for micarta if possible. I feel like we are running out of G10 colors and 15v needs something to show it's special.
I'm thinking black canvas for this one.

Image

If only one knife is possible, it would have to be the Pm2

I'd like to see the Manix 2 LW fill more of the role of the mule team.

However, I feel that for 15v, the knife is already going to be expensive to produce much like Maxamet so I'd rather have the features the pm2 offers over the Manix 2 LW.

15v in a PM2 would be the the full package.

I hope you were able to make your design in black micarta! Any hints on materials, blade length, lock type?
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EngDevGr3
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#365

Post by EngDevGr3 »

sal wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:21 am
Eric said he was going to fit it into the Queue for US production. Will still be a while though as we're pretty backed up.

sal
That is great!! I am really glad this is happening.
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#366

Post by Enactive »

I'm still super eager to see BBB's design! Cool news on Golden production. :spyder: :cool: :D
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#367

Post by Deadboxhero »

Little recap on the CPM 15v testing






"It's structural perfection is matched only by it's hostility"

"I admire it's purity, a pure vanadium cutting machine, not clouded by delusions of toughness, a slicer"

😂

Carbon 3.5%
Chromium 5.25%
Molybdenum 1.26%
Vanadium 14.86%

15v, Not the toughest, not even close, but if used with a thicker grind and convex edge it will be more durable than if thinner at the cost of cutting ability.

15v is special, because I've done a lot of testing and research to build the protocol to increase it's stability for pushing thin geometry, the durability in the video is mostly due to thicker geometry.

However, the standard spec sheet protocol was more prone to chipping/breaking even at lower HRC
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#368

Post by p_atrick »

Deadboxhero wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:47 am
15v, Not the toughest, not even close, but if used with a thicker grind and convex edge it will be more durable than if thinner at the cost of cutting ability.

When you say thicker, what do you mean exactly? Because your "thin" is "oh my god, that's not possible" to the average knife user.
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#369

Post by Deadboxhero »

p_atrick wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:04 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:47 am
15v, Not the toughest, not even close, but if used with a thicker grind and convex edge it will be more durable than if thinner at the cost of cutting ability.

When you say thicker, what do you mean exactly? Because your "thin" is "oh my god, that's not possible" to the average knife user.
I'd say 0.030"bte on a 25dps is on the hefty side, most survival type blades are in that range, my point is that it's the geometry doing most of the heavy lifting on durability.
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#370

Post by prndltech »

Thats true for.... all steels. Thicker BTE, over 20° per side, of course they’re all tougher

I’m. It a fan of the pm2, but... 15v and micarta... mmmm. That MIGHT tip the scales.
- Shannon

MNOSD 0006
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#371

Post by Deadboxhero »

prndltech wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:38 pm
Thats true for.... all steels. Thicker BTE, over 20° per side, of course they’re all tougher
Indeed, the 15v in the video is at 0.020" bte and a 20dps convex edge so it's not as thick as it could be for pure durability, I wanted to at least see some of the steel and HT can do.

The spec sheet protocol was softer and also more brittle.

So I am happy with the results.
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#372

Post by prndltech »

Deadboxhero wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:51 pm
prndltech wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:38 pm
Thats true for.... all steels. Thicker BTE, over 20° per side, of course they’re all tougher
Indeed, the 15v in the video is at 0.020" bte and a 20dps convex edge so it's not as thick as it could be for pure durability, I wanted to at least see some of the steel and HT can do.

The spec sheet protocol was softer and also more brittle.

So I am happy with the results.
I did enjoy that intro :D
- Shannon

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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#373

Post by Deadboxhero »

YES, I love Alien, that scene was always so epic lmao
prndltech wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:58 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:51 pm
prndltech wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:38 pm
Thats true for.... all steels. Thicker BTE, over 20° per side, of course they’re all tougher
Indeed, the 15v in the video is at 0.020" bte and a 20dps convex edge so it's not as thick as it could be for pure durability, I wanted to at least see some of the steel and HT can do.

The spec sheet protocol was softer and also more brittle.

So I am happy with the results.
I did enjoy that intro :D
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#374

Post by nerdlock »

Deadboxhero wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:01 pm
YES, I love Alien, that scene was always so epic lmao
prndltech wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:58 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:51 pm
prndltech wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:38 pm
Thats true for.... all steels. Thicker BTE, over 20° per side, of course they’re all tougher
Indeed, the 15v in the video is at 0.020" bte and a 20dps convex edge so it's not as thick as it could be for pure durability, I wanted to at least see some of the steel and HT can do.

The spec sheet protocol was softer and also more brittle.

So I am happy with the results.
I did enjoy that intro :D

This scene gave me nightmares when I was a kid, along with that infamous chest burster scene .Really freaky how a talking dismembered human-analogue head with milky android fluid can be to a young boy. RIP sir Ian Holm. :spyder: That's one crazy testing video! :D
8Cr13MoV:N690Co:VG10:S30V:S35VN:S45VN:Elmax:SPY27:H1:LC200N:4V:MagnaCut:CTS-XHP:204P:M390:20CV:Cru-Wear:Z-Wear:M4:Rex-45:10V:K390:15V:S90V:Z-Max:Maxamet
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#375

Post by Theldraskien »

I liked Aliens better. So many quotable lines. Alien is still both classic and epic nonetheless. It’s too bad they’ve never been able to do anything else with the franchise, except maybe Covenant.

On topic: where’s our 15v at?
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#376

Post by Deadboxhero »

Dr Larrin showed me this a while back and I have been too busy to share it but thought it was neat.

Image

In the Crucible patent he showed me last year there where some experimental melts of steels known as 18v and 20v.

Image

This was done a long time ago and they were just a part of a small batch of experimental melts for modeling the effects of Vanadium for PM tool steels.

There is no 18v or 20v currently available and it was never available either, it was only used for research.

I think what's exciting about it is that currently the in available steels the highest volume of vanadium monocarbides in available steels is 22-24% volume in the matrix (15v,Rex121) It would be interesting to try a steel at 30% vol of pure Vanadium monocarbide to explore the physical limit.

There may physical pitfalls to sharpening properties which may be adversely effected due to the extreme volume of stiff particles effecting the modulus of elasticity at the edge.


Perhaps the carbide sizes would be impossible to keep as fine as 10v/15v at that volume since the tempetures needed to get the carbides 18v and 20v to the right size in liquid would be too high to atomize from and not to mention the other difficulties in making it and rolling it which are beyond my understanding ( I don't make steel)

There was a neat snippet in Larrin's 10v article where he discussed how crucible ran into issues going beyond 10v with carbides being larger in 11v but they were able to eventually mitigate the issue some with atomizing the melt at a higher temperature.
https://www.google.com/search?q=10v&oq= ... e&ie=UTF-8

We are very blessed to have such an extensive library of articles from a Metallurgist :D

Perhaps 15v and Rex121 are the limits in maxing out the pure vanadium carbide volumes although there are steels that have +30% vol. of carbides in the matrix yet none of them have pure vanadium carbide, its always a mix to make up the difference to 30% it would be neat to explore but cost would be extreme and perhaps just to find out that its inherently too stiff and too clumpy and brittle.

If only things didn't cost $100,000s just to answer a little curiosity :D.

Although with that kind of money would just be better to give it to Dr Larrin to design a better steel than 18v and 20v with a similar effect for crucible to make.

15v with a finely tuned HT will do for now, especially since I know it works.
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#377

Post by Josh Crutchley »

Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:15 pm
Dr Larrin showed me this a while back and I have been too busy to share it but thought it was neat.

Image

In the Crucible patent he showed me last year there where some experimental melts of steels known as 18v and 20v.

Image

This was done a long time ago and they were just a part of a small batch of experimental melts for modeling the effects of Vanadium for PM tool steels.

There is no 18v or 20v currently available and it was never available either, it was only used for research.

I think what's exciting about it is that currently the in available steels the highest volume of vanadium monocarbides in available steels is 22-24% volume in the matrix (15v,Rex121) It would be interesting to try a steel at 30% vol of pure Vanadium monocarbide to explore the physical limit.

There may physical pitfalls to sharpening properties which may be adversely effected due to the extreme volume of stiff particles effecting the modulus of elasticity at the edge.


Perhaps the carbide sizes would be impossible to keep as fine as 10v/15v at that volume since the tempetures needed to get the carbides 18v and 20v to the right size in liquid would be too high to atomize from and not to mention the other difficulties in making it and rolling it which are beyond my understanding ( I don't make steel)

There was a neat snippet in Larrin's 10v article where he discussed how crucible ran into issues going beyond 10v with carbides being larger in 11v but they were able to eventually mitigate the issue some with atomizing the melt at a higher temperature.
https://www.google.com/search?q=10v&oq= ... e&ie=UTF-8

We are very blessed to have such an extensive library of articles from a Metallurgist :D

Perhaps 15v and Rex121 are the limits in maxing out the pure vanadium carbide volumes although there are steels that have +30% vol. of carbides in the matrix yet none of them have pure vanadium carbide, its always a mix to make up the difference to 30% it would be neat to explore but cost would be extreme and perhaps just to find out that its inherently too stiff and too clumpy and brittle.

If only things didn't cost $100,000s just to answer a little curiosity :D.

Although with that kind of money would just be better to give it to Dr Larrin to design a better steel than 18v and 20v with a similar effect for crucible to make.

15v with a finely tuned HT will do for now, especially since I know it works.
I found this research paper from crucible on this page has micrographs of 18v and 20v. The crappy patent micrographs but cool read. I showed it to Larrin he said he never seen it.

http://vanitec.org/technical-library/pa ... ool-steels
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#378

Post by Deadboxhero »

Ooo score!

Nice work

Joshcrutchley1 wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:39 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:15 pm
Dr Larrin showed me this a while back and I have been too busy to share it but thought it was neat.

Image

In the Crucible patent he showed me last year there where some experimental melts of steels known as 18v and 20v.

Image

This was done a long time ago and they were just a part of a small batch of experimental melts for modeling the effects of Vanadium for PM tool steels.

There is no 18v or 20v currently available and it was never available either, it was only used for research.

I think what's exciting about it is that currently the in available steels the highest volume of vanadium monocarbides in available steels is 22-24% volume in the matrix (15v,Rex121) It would be interesting to try a steel at 30% vol of pure Vanadium monocarbide to explore the physical limit.

There may physical pitfalls to sharpening properties which may be adversely effected due to the extreme volume of stiff particles effecting the modulus of elasticity at the edge.


Perhaps the carbide sizes would be impossible to keep as fine as 10v/15v at that volume since the tempetures needed to get the carbides 18v and 20v to the right size in liquid would be too high to atomize from and not to mention the other difficulties in making it and rolling it which are beyond my understanding ( I don't make steel)

There was a neat snippet in Larrin's 10v article where he discussed how crucible ran into issues going beyond 10v with carbides being larger in 11v but they were able to eventually mitigate the issue some with atomizing the melt at a higher temperature.
https://www.google.com/search?q=10v&oq= ... e&ie=UTF-8

We are very blessed to have such an extensive library of articles from a Metallurgist :D

Perhaps 15v and Rex121 are the limits in maxing out the pure vanadium carbide volumes although there are steels that have +30% vol. of carbides in the matrix yet none of them have pure vanadium carbide, its always a mix to make up the difference to 30% it would be neat to explore but cost would be extreme and perhaps just to find out that its inherently too stiff and too clumpy and brittle.

If only things didn't cost $100,000s just to answer a little curiosity :D.

Although with that kind of money would just be better to give it to Dr Larrin to design a better steel than 18v and 20v with a similar effect for crucible to make.

15v with a finely tuned HT will do for now, especially since I know it works.
I found this research paper from crucible on this page has micrographs of 18v and 20v. The crappy patent micrographs but cool read. I showed it to Larrin he said he never seen it.

http://vanitec.org/technical-library/pa ... ool-steels
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#379

Post by Deadboxhero »

Image

That's interesting to see, I was worried that the 18v and 20v would be more clumpy but looks good to go in that micrograph.

I guess when they solved the clumpy issue for steels beyond 10v it also was able to apply it to 18v and 20v.
Image

If only it existed to play with. :D
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Re: Sal, Can we get CPM 15v?

#380

Post by GarageBoy »

Norton and 3m are hoping you get some cpm 20v

Also, I can imagine the confusion now 20v? 20cv?
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