China and tariffs

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
fdahood
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Re: China and tariffs

Postby fdahood » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:18 am

Hi Sal.
Correct me if I am wrong, but as of right now my impression was that current tariffs only effect imported steel, and not finished products made with that steel.
Regardless, I can see how this is a really tough position. Manufacturing in the US is simply more expensive than China, and I assume it would be very expensive to move manufacturing out of China, and also very hard to find factories in places like Vietnam capable of producing a product that meets Spyderco's standards. The Tenacious was my first Spyderco, it introduced me to the brand, and I don't know if I would have fallen in love with knives if that hadn't been by far the best value knife out there for me. Raising prices is tough and doesn't go over as smoothly with the general community as it does for us Spyderco loyalists.

I don't love the idea of tariffs, or the affects they have had on some of our industries, particularly in the agricultural sector. I don't know what the ideal solution is, or how we can ensure that our businesses and manufacturers have a level playing field, but before we yearn for the good ol days of the 19th century when everyone was truly free, remember things back then were probably not as rosy as the appear in hindsight.

Bodog
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Re: China and tariffs

Postby Bodog » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:49 pm

I think the harsh reality is that the average person would rather have low priced products made by slaves than fairly priced products made by free people. As long as they don't have to think about the slaves and their environment, it's okay. The hypocrisy is kind of sad to see, people wanting slave labor but not wanting to admit they want slave labor.

The world is okay with subjecting Chinese, or Cambodian, or Malaysian, or Ugandan people with the worst living conditions possible. People are okay with these people being whipped and murdered in the name of cheap, globally available markets. But would they themelves be willing to host those conditions where they can see them? No. You show them what it takes to produce products as cheaply as they want and people cringe, close their eyes, plug their ears, and push "check out" at amazon like they never saw nor heard that they're supporting a messed up system.

If we cut out the double standards we'd either accept accept slave labor or not. If we accepted slave labor, we'd have to figure out who would qualify to serve as slaves. If not, then we wouldn't stand for it in the US or China or Cambodia or wherever, prices be damned.
They who dance are thought mad by those who do not hear the music.

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SpyderEdgeForever
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Re: China and tariffs

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:55 pm

Bodog wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:49 pm
I think the harsh reality is that the average person would rather have low priced products made by slaves than fairly priced products made by free people. As long as they don't have to think about the slaves and their environment, it's okay. The hypocrisy is kind of sad to see, people wanting slave labor but not wanting to admit they want slave labor.

The world is okay with subjecting Chinese, or Cambodian, or Malaysian, or Ugandan people with the worst living conditions possible. People are okay with these people being whipped and murdered in the name of cheap, globally available markets. But would they themelves be willing to host those conditions where they can see them? No. You show them what it takes to produce products as cheaply as they want and people cringe, close their eyes, plug their ears, and push "check out" at amazon like they never saw nor heard that they're supporting a messed up system.

If we cut out the double standards we'd either accept accept slave labor or not. If we accepted slave labor, we'd have to figure out who would qualify to serve as slaves. If not, then we wouldn't stand for it in the US or China or Cambodia or wherever, prices be damned.

The answer out of this, ofcourse, and which you and I have discussed before, and I appreciated your good insights, is to have a system either through advanced technology or whatever, to where people world wide can have an abundance of the cheap goods they need and want, with zero negative effects such as using people for cheap labor. But alas, that is not yet the reality. And that is somewhat off this topic.

Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: China and tariffs

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:27 pm

So meanwhile back at the ranch the question I posed still stands how are the prices at Spyderco going to be effected?

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sal
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Re: China and tariffs

Postby sal » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:16 pm

Hi Doeswhatever,

We really don't know yet. I see the whole "game" as a "work-in-progress" and we won't know the end game until we get there.

sal

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Ankerson
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Re: China and tariffs

Postby Ankerson » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:16 pm

Bodog wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:49 pm
I think the harsh reality is that the average person would rather have low priced products made by slaves than fairly priced products made by free people. As long as they don't have to think about the slaves and their environment, it's okay. The hypocrisy is kind of sad to see, people wanting slave labor but not wanting to admit they want slave labor.

The world is okay with subjecting Chinese, or Cambodian, or Malaysian, or Ugandan people with the worst living conditions possible. People are okay with these people being whipped and murdered in the name of cheap, globally available markets. But would they themelves be willing to host those conditions where they can see them? No. You show them what it takes to produce products as cheaply as they want and people cringe, close their eyes, plug their ears, and push "check out" at amazon like they never saw nor heard that they're supporting a messed up system.

If we cut out the double standards we'd either accept accept slave labor or not. If we accepted slave labor, we'd have to figure out who would qualify to serve as slaves. If not, then we wouldn't stand for it in the US or China or Cambodia or wherever, prices be damned.

I seriously doubt that it will ever end, some people are just cheap, frugal or whatever other words you use to describe them.

To stop it would take changing the mentality of the public in general when it comes to money and that will NEVER happen.

Having worked in retail and or customer service for most of my life I can say that in general people want something for nothing and or want to "GET OVER". Now, that's not all people, but it is a large majority of the mentality.

We see it in a lot of different industries from the knife world to the computer world and into a variety of others.

And this mentality gets spread in reviews, almost all cheap stuff gets great reviews on the typical websites like Amazon while the quality stuff or should I say more expensive stuff doesn't normally. Those reviews don't mean anything though as most are the result of they got the product undamaged and or it worked at the time they wrote it. So in effect those reviews are useless and mean nothing in general.

This gold for a lead price mentality or what is commonly referred to as the Wal-Mart mentality has been engrained into Society for as long as I can remember.

What do you think would happen if the prices of products in general went up say 30% in price over night? The quality would be higher, but the prices would reflect the increase in quality.

Don't you think people would be screaming for lower prices?

All of that said all we can really do is educate and or try an help people when we can to make wise choices, those people who actually want help that is. Those others who don't will vigorously defend their cheap products that they buy to the end as a lot of us have seen over the years. And some of us have ended up on the defensive as the result of actually trying to help people and or educate them. We end up fighting the mentality, I have learned the hard way that only the ones who want help can actually be helped.

So we have to pick our battles and or decide if it's worth it or not.
Last edited by Ankerson on Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:40 am, edited 13 times in total.

Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: China and tariffs

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:20 pm

sal wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:16 pm
Hi Doeswhatever,

We really don't know yet. I see the whole "game" as a "work-in-progress" and we won't know the end game until we get there.

sal
Thanks Sal. Thanks for the honest answers and when it comes to Knives My Motto is "Make Mine a Spyderco!

cycleguy
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Re: China and tariffs

Postby cycleguy » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:07 am

You said,
"Eventually we are going to be hit with up to 25% in tariffs for our Chinese made models. Naturally we will have to pass on those costs. I would like to know your thoughts on this?"

My reply:
I understand the position and would not look unfavorably upon Spyderco for doing so.

FWIW I do not buy China manufactured product when I don't have to; and yes - it costs more. I would likely find all the China manufactured knives more attractive if they were manufactured elsewhere. All my Spyderco's are marked USA and Japan.

CG
So many knives - so little funds!!!

Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: China and tariffs

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:01 pm

Okay without going down the political Rabbit Hole too much I will say this much. The economy will eventually even out so as more jobs are American the price of things will go up as will the wages, in the mean time people will adapt their spending that's all.

In all respects it is better for Americans to be working than not. And That's all I've got to say about that.


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