China and tariffs

[Ankerson]

Hi Jim,

A friend of mine once said that "a good suit will always cost about the same as a ounce of gold". I wonder if there is a standard that might apply to knives?

sal

Sal,

Oh yeah, good suits aren't cheap, but they are worth it if you need a suit.

The good ones last and fit well so you don't feel like you are wearing some sort of compression thing. :) IMO a good suit should be comfortable to wear all day if needed, should feel like you aren't wearing a suit if you get my meaning. :)

I think there must be something comparable to knives also, not really sure what that would be?

The closest thing I can think of would be tires, good quality tires cost money. But then some cheap out and buy cheap tires and they don't last, suffer blow out's, belt separations etc. That or they don't replace them when they should and suffer from dry rot and or run bald tires. Things that I see all too often around were I live.

Just had to replace them on both my truck and SUV, both sets had plenty of tread, but both sets were dry rotting, granted both sets were over 6 YO so it was expected I suppose.

Jim

[C99c]

Anything that results in more US made models (not just more special versions of the PM2/3, Military, etc) is a plus in my book. Lockbacks with no choils and some "simple" steels, please.

[sal]

Hi C99c,

We're always increasing our us plant. 2018 was the best year ever for Golden made. Lock-backs with no finger choils have their challenges. I'm working on a model that addresses that question.

What do you call "simple steels"?

sal

[C99c]

Hi C99c,

We're always increasing our us plant. 2018 was the best year ever for Golden made. Lock-backs with no finger choils have their challenges. I'm working on a model that addresses that question.

What do you call "simple steels"?

sal

Sal, I'm referring to the 440 variants, 154cm, AUS8, VG10 and the like. I know that it's unlikely we'll see VG10 or AUS8 knives made here, but I like those and similar steels for my uses. I know they aren't really "simple", basically I mean the other end of the spectrum from S90v, S110v, etc.
I do realize that I'm in the small minority that will happily pay the same amount for a good folder with older, simpler steels as we currently pay for S30v and such.

I'm glad to hear that there may be the possibility of a US produced model without a choil. I understand that lockbacks take more work to get right than other designs, which is why we see so few companies doing them. I also know that after twenty plus years of carrying primarily Spydercos, your company is the standard when it comes to a great lockback.

[sal]

HI C99c,

Thanx for the clarification. Thanx also for the kind words.

154 is now powdered. We would use the powdered version. We probably won't use AUS8, but steels like VG-10, CTS-BD1N, are always in the schedule.

The current design in-the-works is planned for Seki construction in FRN. I'm waiting on a prototype. The US model I'm working on is still on the drawing board.

sal

[Ankerson]

The Native 5 is absolutely a fantastic lock back, likely the best I have seen as far as production knives go.

[Ankerson]

HI C99c,

Thanx for the clarification. Thanx also for the kind words.

154 is now powdered. We would use the powdered version. We probably won't use AUS8, but steels like VG-10, CTS-BD1N, are always in the schedule.

The current design in-the-works is planned for Seki construction in FRN. I'm waiting on a prototype. The US model I'm working on is still on the drawing board.

sal

Sal,

I think it would be nice to have a gentleman's lock back with wood inlay's. :)

2.5" to 3" traditional drop point blade, no choil, nice and thin and light weight. :D

I know I am dreaming, but you know.

Jim

[vivi]

HI C99c,

Thanx for the clarification. Thanx also for the kind words.

154 is now powdered. We would use the powdered version. We probably won't use AUS8, but steels like VG-10, CTS-BD1N, are always in the schedule.

The current design in-the-works is planned for Seki construction in FRN. I'm waiting on a prototype. The US model I'm working on is still on the drawing board.

sal

Glad to hear it Sal.

I'm another fan of lockbacks, "simple steels," and knives with no choil.

Based on my personal experience, a knife with no choil with a grip designed to get your hand close to the cutting edge offers just as much control as one that depends on a choil, while having superior ergonomics.

The issue I run into with many of your designs, even ones I previously loved (Caly 3), is that to fit four finger on the handle I have to use the choil....but then there isn't enough space for my thumb to be comfortable.

Over time I've realized designs that offer me a full, four finger grip, and about an inch of space between the thumb ramp and index finger placement, are ideal for me. Less than that, and most designs cause my thumb to be cramped and uncomfortable.

I'm aware that I'm an outlier though. Many of your best selling models are ones that don't ergonomically work for me, and I don't ever expect you to cater to me personally :)

I really, really like BD1. I specifically look for models you produce using that steel. I'm also excited about the upcoming AEB-L urban. Even though I expect the handle to be uncomfortable for me, I plan to give the knife a shot to try out your HT of the steel. I've used it in custom kitchen knives with great results.

A lot of my favorite knives use steels many would turn their nose up to. 1095, O1, A2, BD1, VG10 etc. I've tried some of the newer, more exotic steels, and some of them have really impressed me like CTS204P with its eerie combination of excellent edge holding and ease of sharpening, but I still appreciate stuff like BD1.

[jalcon]

Maybe a mod could clean this thread from all the off topic political talk?

There is an off topic forum for this BS.

There is literally no way to talk about China and tariffs without talking borderline politics. Everyone here has been civil. I see no harm myself.

[jalcon]

double

[sal]

We're getting off topic with the gents model. Task.

Hi Jalcon,

I agree, just keeping it civil. The US (and maybe the world) is quite divided right now. Not healthy for a country, so this side of borderline, please?

sal

[God'sMyJudge]

History is the best teacher in circumstances such as these, and history shows repeatedly that tariffs cause more harm than good. Sal, was Spyderco production affected by the steel tariffs imposed on China in 2002? I imagine Spyderco's production and output has changed drastically since that time, but how, if at all, was Spyderco impacted by previous steel tariffs? Was Spyderco even producing anything in China or using materials made there?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

The time will come when you can download the 3d blue print to your favorite Spyderco knife and have it assembled by your own personal 3d printer in your home from some variation of shatterproof diamondoid reinforced ultra steel and a hand-conforming "living FRN" grip. That will side-step all of this.

[araneae]

After reading through the thread, its clear to me that few understand what the tariffs mean for us in the US (myself included). Lots of opinions and some folks better at staying away from the politics than others. A few very well put together responses in the mix. It is an uncertain time for many industries right now. My wife is actually in the aluminum industry and the tariffs have some impact there already, they sell and work domestically and abroad. Not many fans of the tariffs that she has encountered. Whether they will benefit the economy and American workforce in the long run remains to be seen. Whether they will have any or all of the claimed benefits remains to be seen. We are very likely to pay more for goods as consumers though.

My guess is that as prices go up, pieces like the Alcyone will suffer as the gap between that and some US/Japan/Taiwan models shrinks. A lower cost US model might help if quality didn't have to suffer. I have often wondered why Taichung doesn't get a nice entry level piece in BD1. Could they make a nice $50 model for the masses?

Feeling like it was a good time for me to snag that Ti Robin off Amazon for $32 last night. It was a steal before I read this thread.

[Bodog]

History is the best teacher in circumstances such as these, and history shows repeatedly that tariffs cause more harm than good. Sal, was Spyderco production affected by the steel tariffs imposed on China in 2002? I imagine Spyderco's production and output has changed drastically since that time, but how, if at all, was Spyderco impacted by previous steel tariffs? Was Spyderco even producing anything in China or using materials made there?

From 1789 until 1913 the US relied solely on corporate taxes and tariffs. We stayed out of foreign bs for the most part. We didn't give aid to every country that demanded it. We minded our own business. We were the freest country in the world. We were also, per capita, one of the, if not the, most individually prosperous countries in the world. A man could generally provide for his wife and 5 kids on his one paycheck. Kids in the 6th grade then were had higher levels of education than even a lot of college attendees now. Government basically stayed out of everything because they only had the money from corporations and tariffs. People were generally left to their own devices unless they were robbers or murderers or rapists. This country and how it was was genuinely the best country on the earth until they scammed us into the individual income tax, the federal reserve, and dropping tariffs. Next thing you know, we got involved in two world wars, the korean war, and everything since. We killed our own country because of taxing individual Americans rather than solely corporations and foreigners seeking to operate in the US.

Now i guess the paradigm is different. People would rather be taxed to death and corporations pay 0 after they exploit every loophole they can and foreign countries are free to drive us into the dirt. And Americans scream for it to happen because our economy has become so dependent on cheap materials and third world labor. We went from being a powerhouse who minded our own business to a house of cards in everyone else's business, ready to fall.

I almost welcome the American glasnost and perestroika. Maybe it'll wake us up.

[sal]

Hi Jim,

Other than the "no finger choil", there might be a Chaparral in your future.

sal

[sal]

Free trade is based on level playing fields.

"Level playing fields" are difficult when values of money are involved. When we first began trading with Japan in the early '80's, the Yen was 350 to the dollar. A good deal. By the 90's, Japan was on a better footing and the Yen rose to equal the dollar.

The Yuan is 6 to 1. Equivalent to a 3rd world country. I believe that this is all the first inning of a 9 inning game. Get some popcorn.

sal

[Tucson Tom]

154 is now powdered. We would use the powdered version.

sal

I've always had a soft spot for 154

[Tucson Tom]

Politics, eh? Well I look in my crystal ball and expect lots of changes in China. It seems like an unstable situation that will see rapid change. The current tariffs are just a small part of the story. The cost of labor seems like the factor that makes things how they are to a large extent. China has a vast pool of cheap labor, and it is the high price of labor in the US that has driven so much production overseas and motivated so many domestic companies to invest in automation. I don't see the tariffs fixing that.

I have only purchased a few Spyderco knives made in mainland China. Not because of any anti-China attitude or patriotic urge to only buy American, but because the knives that interest me, and the special steels and exclusives and such are all from Golden (or Taiwan). But I am a different market. I see the Chinese Spydercos going to Walmart and big box sporting goods stores and that is quite a different market from the maniacs on this forum.

I like my Tenacious, but the poor thing doesn't get much pocket time now that I have picked up so many exotic Spydercos (like the Rex45 Military that should arrive tomorrow).

[Ankerson]

History is the best teacher in circumstances such as these, and history shows repeatedly that tariffs cause more harm than good. Sal, was Spyderco production affected by the steel tariffs imposed on China in 2002? I imagine Spyderco's production and output has changed drastically since that time, but how, if at all, was Spyderco impacted by previous steel tariffs? Was Spyderco even producing anything in China or using materials made there?

From 1789 until 1913 the US relied solely on corporate taxes and tariffs. We stayed out of foreign bs for the most part. We didn't give aid to every country that demanded it. We minded our own business. We were the freest country in the world. We were also, per capita, one of the, if not the, most individually prosperous countries in the world. A man could generally provide for his wife and 5 kids on his one paycheck. Kids in the 6th grade then were had higher levels of education than even a lot of college attendees now. Government basically stayed out of everything because they only had the money from corporations and tariffs. People were generally left to their own devices unless they were robbers or murderers or rapists. This country and how it was was genuinely the best country on the earth until they scammed us into the individual income tax, the federal reserve, and dropping tariffs. Next thing you know, we got involved in two world wars, the korean war, and everything since. We killed our own country because of taxing individual Americans rather than solely corporations and foreigners seeking to operate in the US.

Now i guess the paradigm is different. People would rather be taxed to death and corporations pay 0 after they exploit every loophole they can and foreign countries are free to drive us into the dirt. And Americans scream for it to happen because our economy has become so dependent on cheap materials and third world labor. We went from being a powerhouse who minded our own business to a house of cards in everyone else's business, ready to fall.

I almost welcome the American glasnost and perestroika. Maybe it'll wake us up.

Yeah, that was when the wealth shifted from the individual to the Major Corporations and I do agree it started going down hill from there.

Now the same family with the 5 kids, both parents have to work 3 jobs and still might not make it.

And they call that progress, well for the major corps yeah it is, but for the rest of us who aren't part of the top 1% not so much.

Personally I believe the US has for the most part lost just about everything that it was founded on. Everything (Wealth) has shifted from the Individual to the Major Corporations that are now the ones who are really running the Country. Well we as in the voters are actually to blame because our elected politicians are the ones who actually sold us out.

Sad when you really think about it.