52100 vs other tool steels

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
ferider
Member
Posts: 812
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:41 pm
Location: California
Contact:

52100 vs other tool steels

#1

Post by ferider »

As I said in another thread, the Manix 2 is love on 2nd sight for me ....

I keep being tempted by the Knifeworks 52100 version. I already have M4, Cruwear and 4V. Anything that 52100 would do for me that the others don't ?

Cheers,

Roland.
User avatar
p_atrick
Member
Posts: 1536
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:35 pm
Location: Boston Area

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#2

Post by p_atrick »

Sharpenability? 52100 takes a real nice polish and a keen edge without a ton of work. I don't have experience with the steels you mentioned, so I really can't make a comparison.
glutofknives
Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:26 am

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#3

Post by glutofknives »

Of the many steels Ive used, it is by far the easiest to sharpen. Takes a great edge on the spyderco brown and white cermaic stones.
User avatar
JonLeBlanc
Member
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 8:00 am
Location: Louisiana

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#4

Post by JonLeBlanc »

Ditto on the above, my PM2 is a RAZOR, it's so satisfying.
My collection so far: 52100 Military (2); 52100 PM2 (2); 52100 Para3; Stretch2 V-Toku; KnifeWorks M4 PM2; BentoBox M390 PM2; BentoBox S90V Military; Police4 K390; S110V PM2; SS Delica AUS-6; Wayne Goddard Sprint VG-10
Wish list: Hundred Pacer; Sliverax; Mantra; 52100 PM2 SE; Kapara
User avatar
PanChango
Member
Posts: 511
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:43 am
Location: Pennsylvania USA

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#5

Post by PanChango »

I really like 52100. The only issue I have with it, just like super blue and other carbon steels, is that the edge starts to corrode and degrade very quickly after use (food etc). I gave up polishing it for a nice toothy edge (chosera 800). It isn't as laser sharp, but it holds a good working edge longer for me. A few swipes on the stones to refresh it is all that is needed.
User avatar
awa54
Member
Posts: 2685
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:54 am
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#6

Post by awa54 »

For me the Manix is a do-everything platform, so I prefer stainless in my M2s

My favorites: CruWear and S90V LW... both Sprint/exclusive and both gone now :(
-David

still more knives than sharpening stones...
User avatar
jpm2
Member
Posts: 1323
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:40 pm
Location: TX - in the sticks

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#7

Post by jpm2 »

ferider wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:43 am
I already have M4, Cruwear and 4V. Anything that 52100 would do for me that the others don't ?
Cheers,
Roland.
I feel all those steels keep their edge much longer without sacrificing edge stability.
All are slightly more stain resistant.
52100 main advantage to me is easy fast sharpening to a very fine scary hair splitting edge with even non diamond stones. It's perfect for finishing on my Arkansas stones.
JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 23532
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#8

Post by JD Spydo »

I probably shouldn't even be saying anything regarding 52100 steel. But I've read a myriad of knife magazines, books and other publications and I've also read a lot about the different blade steels. The old, discontinued "Tactical Knives" magazine had a section in it called "The Steel Bin" and the guy who wrote most of the articles was a guy named Butch Winter.

I found everything he wrote to be accurate when I would end up using one of the blade steels he happen to write about. The high carbon, blade steel 52100 is one that he frequently wrote about and always had good things to say about it. And of all my friends who are devout carbon steel fans and some of them won't even touch a stainless blade at all. But the two that I hear them constantly bringing up are 1095 and 52100.

If I ever get the chance to get either a C-36 Military or any other full sized folder in 52100 I do plan on using it at some point. But I guess I can say is that all I've ever heard about it is good. I tend to lean toward many of these newer/better stainless blade steels but at some point I am going to try 52100 blade steel. I've never heard anyone saying anything bad about it at all and I've covered a lot of knife publications over the years.
User avatar
p_atrick
Member
Posts: 1536
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:35 pm
Location: Boston Area

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#9

Post by p_atrick »

JD Spydo wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:36 pm
I've never heard anyone saying anything bad about it at all and I've covered a lot of knife publications over the years.
'Bout the only bad thing I can say about 52100 is that it stains very easy. My own personal experience is that it stains more easily than 1095 (not to say that is fact). But you have to properly maintain any carbon steel, so 52100 isn't any different.
JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 23532
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#10

Post by JD Spydo »

p_atrick wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:18 pm
JD Spydo wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:36 pm
I've never heard anyone saying anything bad about it at all and I've covered a lot of knife publications over the years.
'Bout the only bad thing I can say about 52100 is that it stains very easy. My own personal experience is that it stains more easily than 1095 (not to say that is fact). But you have to properly maintain any carbon steel, so 52100 isn't any different.
I hear you but don't you think that kind of goes with the territory with the vast majority of high carbon steels and to a large degree tool steels in general as well? But as many guys that have kind of become artisans with the patina effects they can achieve under various methods you still have a lot of hard core fans of non-stainless blade steels.

Personally I can go either way>> there are tool steel blades I like such as D-2 when it's heat treated properly. I've also used a couple of O-1 blades I've sort of been impressed with. I guess what I'm trying to say about 52100 is that it kind of stands on it's own as far as edge retention and performance goes.

Because to me function and performance at the two criteria that are at the top of my list. If a blade steel like M390 performs better than anything else I've used recently>> then I'm going to carry an M390 blade ( which I do) and it has all the cosmetic appeal of any other stainless>> well that's all good too. But at some point I do want to do a serious test drive on a 52100 blade. I'm thinking it would be most interesting in a fixed blade for some reason>> although I was tempted to get one of the Para2 models in that steel. As far as patina, staining or any other aesthetic qualites>> I'm not going to trip on it if it performs well and functions well. I'll just take some Sentry Solutions TUF CLOTH which I've always had great luck with corrosion protection and not worry about it.
User avatar
knivesandbooks
Member
Posts: 1455
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:43 pm
Location: Tulsa, OK

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#11

Post by knivesandbooks »

An earned patina is a beautiful thing.
Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and on those in the tombs bestowing life!
User avatar
Tucson Tom
Member
Posts: 1629
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:19 pm
Location: Somewhere in Arizona

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#12

Post by Tucson Tom »

My take is that 52100 is the caviar of carbon steels. It is not a tool steel. The great thing about 52100 is that, man o man, does it want to get sharp easily. The not so great thing is that it will most certainly rust. This can be managed. I manage rust by living in the Arizona desert, but the rest of you may have to resort to other methods. An oil coating is generally recommended. I like the idea of an invisibly thin coat of vaseline or some such clear grease. Many things can be done. People say that the pivot needs special attention given that you can't see the rust being formed by water drawn there by capillary action.
bluntcut
Member
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:33 pm

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#13

Post by bluntcut »

Keep in mind carbon% content in various 52100 sources. Mid low 0.95%C to Mid high 1.05% is a relative 67% jump in cementite volume% (iron carbide), therefore a bit more wear resistant at higher %C. Of course, higher %C requires higher quality ht to avoid extra brittle outcome at 62+rc.
500Nitro
Member
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:56 am
Location: Australia

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#14

Post by 500Nitro »

PanChango wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:51 pm
I really like 52100. The only issue I have with it, just like super blue and other carbon steels, is that the edge starts to corrode and degrade very quickly after use (food etc). I gave up polishing it for a nice toothy edge (chosera 800). It isn't as laser sharp, but it holds a good working edge longer for me. A few swipes on the stones to refresh it is all that is needed.
"corrode and degrade " - I think your expectations are slightly off and if you don't want that to happen, change steels.

"gave up polishing it for a nice toothy edge (chosera 800). It isn't as laser sharp, but it holds a good working edge longer for me. A few swipes on the stones to refresh it is all that is needed."

One of the reasons "hair cutting" ability doesn't get me excited.

A good hunting mate who cuts up hundreds of animals taught me that (we use High Carbon Green River knives).
When out all day cutting up animals it helps to be able to put the edge back on quickly.
3 x Endura 1 SE, 1 x Endura ? CE and a Black Pacific Salt. Want Aqua Salt, Fish Hunter and a Pacific Salt Yellow.
User avatar
awa54
Member
Posts: 2685
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:54 am
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#15

Post by awa54 »

JD Spydo wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:36 pm
If I ever get the chance to get either a C-36 Military or any other full sized folder in 52100 I do plan on using it at some point. But I guess I can say is that all I've ever heard about it is good. I tend to lean toward many of these newer/better stainless blade steels but at some point I am going to try 52100 blade steel. I've never heard anyone saying anything bad about it at all and I've covered a lot of knife publications over the years.

JD, National Knives still has the 52100 Military in stock and not at full retail, like some other places...
-David

still more knives than sharpening stones...
Para3
Member
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:45 pm

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#16

Post by Para3 »

I tend to like high carbon and semi-stainless tool steels like M4, Rex 45, 52100, etc... 52100 takes a keen edge like none I've seen.
Native5-S110V, PM2-S30V, PM2-Rex 45, PM2-52100, PM2-S110V, PM2-S35VN, Para3-S30V, Para3-S110V, Para3-M4, Para3-BD1N, GB2, Dragonfly, Manix2-S30V, UK Pen Knife-S110V, Delica4, Para3-Rex 45, Para3-52100, Manix2-S110V, Stretch 2-ZDP-189 G10, Stretch 2 FRN-VG10.
User avatar
JonLeBlanc
Member
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 8:00 am
Location: Louisiana

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#17

Post by JonLeBlanc »

Everything mentioned above is why I think 52100 should be used more extensively than it is by the "mainstream" of knife afis (forgers and hunters etc know what's up). And if I can keep mine clear of at least rust if not patina where I live, anyone can!
My collection so far: 52100 Military (2); 52100 PM2 (2); 52100 Para3; Stretch2 V-Toku; KnifeWorks M4 PM2; BentoBox M390 PM2; BentoBox S90V Military; Police4 K390; S110V PM2; SS Delica AUS-6; Wayne Goddard Sprint VG-10
Wish list: Hundred Pacer; Sliverax; Mantra; 52100 PM2 SE; Kapara
User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 14753
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#18

Post by Doc Dan »

Vaseline is my favorite rust preventer. It is food safe. It has mineral oil. The paraffin wax in it keeps the mineral oil in place. You do not even need to be able to see the Vaseline on the knife. A little will do it.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)



NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050
JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 23532
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#19

Post by JD Spydo »

knivesandbooks wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:36 pm
An earned patina is a beautiful thing.
For you guys who are really crazy about those patina effects on high carbon steels I'm sort of curious>> do you regard it in the same way a lot of guys do who tend to love Damascus for instance. The reason I ask is because I've got a really good pal I met at one of the BlADE Shows many years ago and he is just fanatical about Damascus patterns.

Myself I'm just kind of a "function" oriented guy when it comes to knives. Looks don't really top my list although I do polish all my stainless blades usually after sharpening. But as a general rule if it doesn't make the knife perform better then it really doesn't interest me much.

Tell me what am I overlooking or disregarding? What does Patina, Stonewashing or Damascus have any bearing on the overall function of the blade? I guess maybe it's something I ought to look into.

Now I heard from one friend that a Patina can be a type of corrosion preventative>> if that is actually the case I might look into it.
FK
Member
Posts: 630
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: CT USA

Re: 52100 vs other tool steels

#20

Post by FK »

I began using 52100 with the Marble's fixed blades from 1997-2000 era, have a treasured small collection.
Outstanding fixed blade steel, especially with full convex grind. I do not use a secondary bevel on these blades.

With the Spyderco introduction of 52100, it is to me even more readily carried as a folder.
I have Para 3, PM2 and Military,,,, enjoy them all.

Recently purchased a used Military with green G10 scales from the CTS 204-P limited run.
Butter smooth and great lock-up, really like the dark green scales.
Blade was a little stained and I will be experimenting with patina and using often.

FK
Post Reply