New? Immerse!

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
cbrstar
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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby cbrstar » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:00 pm

I wonder how many people actually choose Spyderco as their first knife? For me it was a long journey.

When I first caught the knife bug, I chose CRKT and SOG over Spyderco because sadly at the time I was fixated on spring assisted knives. Everything else was meaningless to me. Now I've had knives for a few years and my tastes have matured, I've fallen head over heels for Spyderco knives.

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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby 500Nitro » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:25 pm

cbrstar wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:00 pm
I wonder how many people actually choose Spyderco as their first knife? For me it was a long journey.
If you discount Hunting knives of which like most kids I purchased cheap, (doesn't everyone have a cheap Buck brass folder ?) then my first real knife was probably my Spyderco Endura Serrated at age 20 or so - but in recommendation of an SAS warrant officer, not because I knew a lot.

It was solely on the basis that around ropes that could kill you you needed a knife that could and did cut all the time.

That knife was on my for ages. Than left in box for a few years then back out and with me since.
3 x Endura 1 SE, 1 x Endura ? CE and a Black Pacific Salt. Want Aqua Salt, Fish Hunter and a Pacific Salt Yellow.

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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby ZrowsN1s » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:36 pm

Good advice Sal. I'm not new to knives by any stretch, and I'm constantly reminded how much I still have to learn. Knives are a deep river. It's easy to get across the surface, but if you dive in, it's a long way to the bottom. :D
Last edited by ZrowsN1s on Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MichaelScott
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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby MichaelScott » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:38 pm

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:32 pm
MichaelScott wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:09 pm
For me this is a very topical and interesting post by Sal. I had finally learned that the way a knife is used and how it “fits” the user is most important. Among others, the Rhino and One-Eyed Jack taught me.

Recently, my interests and direction have changed. History, both personal and knife making history, has moved me to new field and ideas. And, it actually began here.

In a post not long ago was a mention of GEC knives. What’s that? I thought so went Googling. After much reading and video of how their knives are made, locally with local people, I was enchanted.

Their modern expressions of knives that I, my father, grandfathers and all of the adult men I grew up knowing just struck some chord. I have three in the mail to me now.

I think the most surprising Spyderco in this regard has to be my Cook’s knife. It’s quickly become a crucial kitchen tool which far exceeded my expectations.
I admire your small collection Michael. I love that you have stepped totally out of the box of what most people tend to buy and carry, and utilize your knives in the same manner as most others, within the limits of your knives. It's always refreshing to see someone go against the grain in their selections!
Thank you. Being an anthropologist as well as an historian, knives have special meanings to me. I think they are human kind’s first tool, intimately connected to higher brain functioning and language, two critical components of the successful human evolution that led to us, here, now. I have closely studied the Oldowan tool assemblages and the development of stone cutting tools. During my degree program I learned to flint knap, partially taught to me by a Kiowa friend in Oklahoma. There is nothing more valuable in learning about stone tools than making them and then using them yourself.

Knives are fundamental to human activities and development. The knife is the first tool that could be used to make other tools. Still true today.

Form following function is a principle I learned about long ago. I’d say that Spyderco is solidly within that philosophy. But, for me, knives being more than merely tools, I am increasingly interested in the old American patterns and materials. Being a user-collector, knives have to be utilitarian as well as pieces of the makers art. I am not tied to locks and clips and super-steels. I suspect getting more involved in these modern creations of the antique knife makers art will further increase my love and appreciation of folding knives.
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Naperville
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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby Naperville » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:03 am

OK Sal.

I'll start saving for a Zoomer. I'll do as you suggest and try to see it from the designers eye.
Spyderco Collection: Military (S110V), Bob Lum Darn Dao(CPM-154), Yojimbo 2 (1 in S30V & 2 in 20CV), Sustain(20CV), Native 5(Maxamet), Jumpmaster 2(H1), Province(4V). SHORT LIST: CF Shaman(S90V), Native Chief, Street Bowie(4V at 60+ HRC), Nightstick, Yojumbo.

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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby Larry_Mott » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:43 am

Although i am 95% collector nowadays the original post is a correct description how i ended up a Spydiehead :)
I went from Buck 110 to Delica (which felt totally weird, plasticky and toy like) however i learned to love it, and if i hadn't misplaced/lost it after carrying it daily more than 12 years later i would most likely still have owned the fat clip AUS8 Delica to this day.
So - i hear you loud and clear Sal!
(That doesn't mean i will stop whining about eye candy, mind!) ;)
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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby curlyhairedboy » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:44 am

As my current stable of Spydercos can attest, nowadays I'm definitely interested in unique designs from Spyderco and its collaborators.

I started out with a strong preference for titanium ball bearing framelock flippers.

Now?

There's so much more out there to fall in love with! I respect each knife I have and can appreciate not only the craftsmanship and action, but the design elements and small considerations that matter so much in use.
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, DLC Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, 4V Shaman, Watu, Rex 45 Shaman, Rex 45 Lil Native, Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, Tanto PM2, Serrated Shaman
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Fixed Blades: Proficient, Junction, Waterway
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native, Calendar Watu
Would like to own again: Currently N/A!
Wishlist: Smallfly 2, CQI SpyderEdge Caribbean Sheepsfoot, Shaman Sprints!

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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby Big50 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:35 am

I will second (third?) some of the thoughts on the Para3.
WhenI first read about it I was really excited. When I first saw it, I thought ‘yuck!’ It just seemed off to me.
When I finally held a Para3 in hand, it really made sense and changed my opinoin. It’s grown on me by leaps and bounds since then.

Not to go off topic, but I was watching a YouTube reviewer recently who said he really wanted to spend extra time getting to know a knife before the review....so he carried it for a whole week! Hahahaha. That made me openly chuckle! A week was “extra” time for him to get to know a knife.

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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby Chandelierman » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:55 am

It maybe ok for you guys across the pond who can find Spyderco dealers / stores where you could possibly handle the knives before buying .... I am in the UK and I cannot find a dealer anywhere that sells spyderco off the shelf so I have to rely on YouTube reviews and buy online .... I have bought loads of knives this year but not bonded with any of them ... I am the same with cars and motorbikes ..... I am always buying and selling trying to find the”one” .... I think knives maybe a bit like women .... you “just know” when you’ve got the right one in your hands and that it’s a keeper :)

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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby cbrstar » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:23 am

Chandelierman wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:55 am
It maybe ok for you guys across the pond who can find Spyderco dealers / stores where you could possibly handle the knives before buying .... I am in the UK and I cannot find a dealer anywhere that sells spyderco off the shelf so I have to rely on YouTube reviews and buy online .... I have bought loads of knives this year but not bonded with any of them ... I am the same with cars and motorbikes ..... I am always buying and selling trying to find the”one” .... I think knives maybe a bit like women .... you “just know” when you’ve got the right one in your hands and that it’s a keeper :)
I felt that way when I bought my PM2 as it felt like "the one" and it still does. But because I like it so much I just could no longer say no to spyderco especially if I got a deal on them and now have 5 spyderco and a byrd.

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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby Chandelierman » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:12 pm

cbrstar wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:23 am
Chandelierman wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:55 am
It maybe ok for you guys across the pond who can find Spyderco dealers / stores where you could possibly handle the knives before buying .... I am in the UK and I cannot find a dealer anywhere that sells spyderco off the shelf so I have to rely on YouTube reviews and buy online .... I have bought loads of knives this year but not bonded with any of them ... I am the same with cars and motorbikes ..... I am always buying and selling trying to find the”one” .... I think knives maybe a bit like women .... you “just know” when you’ve got the right one in your hands and that it’s a keeper :)
I felt that way when I bought my PM2 as it felt like "the one" and it still does. But because I like it so much I just could no longer say no to spyderco especially if I got a deal on them and now have 5 spyderco and a byrd.

Yeah ...you "just know" when somethings right ...a bit like Goldie locks and the porridge ;) but there are 100's of spyders so there must be something "just right" for me but I don't want to end up buying them all to find out :( I had the UKPK and that was definitely not the one .....I got a PM1 / Military last week which I like but it is tip down only which is why I have ordered the PM2 'but" the PM2 is smaller and I hope I like the compression lock ....I had a 560 Freek with the Axis lock which I liked but although it was perfectly made and as smooth as silk to opperate it didn't feel robust enough for an EDC....I am looking at getting a Manix 2 in G10 and maybe a Tenacious and Endura 4 .....I had to get the PM2 shipped in so hopefully it will be here by Wednesday

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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby Ankerson » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:29 pm

I personally give every knife a chance that I get, use it and or test it etc.

Knives are a personal thing and everyone will have different likes and dislikes, how they fit in hand etc.

There is no right and wrong, there are only opinions and what is good for the individual.

In the end it's a great hobby and there is so much to learn that the learning process never ends.

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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby Ngati Pom » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:02 pm

As always, words of wisdom. Backed by years of experience.
This is one of the reasons I joined this forum.
Thanks Sal.
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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby ChrisinHove » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:04 pm

MichaelScott wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:38 pm
TkoK83Spy wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:32 pm
MichaelScott wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:09 pm
For me this is a very topical and interesting post by Sal. I had finally learned that the way a knife is used and how it “fits” the user is most important. Among others, the Rhino and One-Eyed Jack taught me.

Recently, my interests and direction have changed. History, both personal and knife making history, has moved me to new field and ideas. And, it actually began here.

In a post not long ago was a mention of GEC knives. What’s that? I thought so went Googling. After much reading and video of how their knives are made, locally with local people, I was enchanted.

Their modern expressions of knives that I, my father, grandfathers and all of the adult men I grew up knowing just struck some chord. I have three in the mail to me now.

I think the most surprising Spyderco in this regard has to be my Cook’s knife. It’s quickly become a crucial kitchen tool which far exceeded my expectations.
I admire your small collection Michael. I love that you have stepped totally out of the box of what most people tend to buy and carry, and utilize your knives in the same manner as most others, within the limits of your knives. It's always refreshing to see someone go against the grain in their selections!
Thank you. Being an anthropologist as well as an historian, knives have special meanings to me. I think they are human kind’s first tool, intimately connected to higher brain functioning and language, two critical components of the successful human evolution that led to us, here, now. I have closely studied the Oldowan tool assemblages and the development of stone cutting tools. During my degree program I learned to flint knap, partially taught to me by a Kiowa friend in Oklahoma. There is nothing more valuable in learning about stone tools than making them and then using them yourself.

Knives are fundamental to human activities and development. The knife is the first tool that could be used to make other tools. Still true today.

Form following function is a principle I learned about long ago. I’d say that Spyderco is solidly within that philosophy. But, for me, knives being more than merely tools, I am increasingly interested in the old American patterns and materials. Being a user-collector, knives have to be utilitarian as well as pieces of the makers art. I am not tied to locks and clips and super-steels. I suspect getting more involved in these modern creations of the antique knife makers art will further increase my love and appreciation of folding knives.
I made a fascinating visit to Grimes Graves in Norfolk last summer. Effectively a Stone Age industrial estate, you can descend into one of the flint mines and view the galleries where long ago ancestors mined their flint. There are even antler picks left in-situ in some mines, apparently. Worth a google, perhaps.

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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby MichaelScott » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:53 pm

Thanks, will Google.
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sparky2016
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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby sparky2016 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:06 pm

Certainly I've come to realize that everything on a Spyderco knife is done for a reason. And I think of that when I read the critical comments people make that don't seem to understand the knives. You can understand a knife without liking it or wanting it, but so many of the comments don't seem to understand the knife.

But at the same time the reasons there are dozens (hundreds) of designs is because some work better for what people like and need than others. I don't think it's reasonable to think everyone is going to like every knife. If it's the wrong knife for me, it's the wrong knife. And using it everyday is just going to remind me why. Every day.

So sure, remember that the design is that way for a reason. Something that sets Spyderco apart. But not all of those reasons are the right reasons for any given person. And some knives are still just the wrong knives for any given person.

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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby Mini2white » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:48 pm

Great advice Sal. I often loan out my knives to friends to use in anyway they like. They can sharpen them (I hope they come back sharp). This way they can get to try out something they don't yet own, or maybe experience a new steel so they too can get that I want it bug. I'm not scared of this because they are knife users and respect their tools, so they appreciate more Spyderco models.

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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby Zatx » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:52 am

sal wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:42 pm
I'd like to offer a suggestion, at least to some of the newer members.

The world of knives is vast. The doorway in may be smaller, but the cavern that it opens into has a great deal to offer. As you keep an open mind and observe and learn, one finds: differences in steel and the "why", handle materials, ergonomics, mechanical (locks, opening methods, etc.), performance, edge geometries and a host of other courses in knife 101 to PHD studies.

I have observed that when someone is new, at least to this forum (and probably others as well), The emphasis is on "what I like". If it doesn't meet what "I think is right", then it is passed over, sold or whatever. I have also observed that when one has this view, one is not as open to what the designer may have had in mind. The early days of Spyderco were riddled with objection to the "appearance" of our knives, with nary a thought to the "why". In fact, most knives were selected by the "look" and "What I like the looks of". I say; "too much eye and not enough brain" ;)

We've come a long way with the internet, technology, testing, etc.

What I am suggesting is that when you get a new knife, you use it, sharpen it, live with it, a taste of what the designer had in mind, rather than just how a knife looks, or what you think you like. A simple example would be "clip". Do I like clips? Do I like this clip? What did designer think when he created this clip? shape? material? Tip up or down? Why? These are questions best answered after a fair amount of use. You might find that you will like something that you thought you might not?

In other words, open you mind and experience fully the new "thing" in spirit, design, materials, ergonomics, cutting power, ease of carry, deployment, learn "new", get out of your comfort zone. In this way you get more out of the hobby and interest in the world of knives. You also get to converse with the many here already doing the same thing.

sal


I agree with your thoughts here, Sal, but what you are observing is the natural result of the knife-buying market. Gerber, Kershaw, and the other budget-conscious knife makers opened up the public at large to the world of pocket knives (I realize that other fine companies such as yours came before them). So they are the gateway drug to the higher quality and higher priced makers such as Spyderco; they are that "narrow door." When a buyer is paying $20-$50 for a "cool" spring-assisted flipper like the Kershaw Leek, they aren't making their purchasing decision based on fancy blade steels, ergonomics, or clip position; they are basing their spending strictly on looks. Gerber and Kershaw understand this dynamic, so they pump out hundreds of new models and further contribute to the attitude you mention.

But, here is what I view as one of the biggest factors that causes someone to purchase or sell a knife based on looks... it's because for the vast majority of us, all of these knives will accomplish the cutting tasks that we are most likely to encounter... cutting tape on a box that contains the new knife we just bought from an online retailer. Let's face it, most people with a pocket knife aren't using it to hack their way through a forest, skin a deer, defend themselves against an armed assailant, or any other highly romanticized, but highly unlikely scenario. Most knife owners are using that fancy blade steel to open their mail.

I own more Spydercos than I can count and used to be a numbered collector; I can sharpen a blade until it can whittle hair at even the most obtuse angles, but my usual maintenance task is cleaning off tape adhesive.

Here's the upside for Spyderco, however, each new Kershaw sold is a potential future buyer for Spyderco.

I suspect what sparked your comment along these lines is the Alstair Phillips thread where forum members have posted photos showing off their Kaparas with aftermarket clips. Buyers of the Kapara are not rookie knife owners. I'd wager a good sum of money (if I was a betting man) that this isn't a "first knife" purchase for any of its current owners. As such, these men and women already know what they like and works best for them from a carrying and use perspective (i.e. ergonomics) and have their preferences. It isn't so much that they need to get out of their comfort zone, it's that they have already been there and done that, and now they set up a knife the way they like it straight out of the box. I myself love the Spyderco wire clip and for many years would only purchase a model if it had this feature, but my Kapara has got me looking at aftermarket alternatives, something about the thinness of the scales makes it not feel "right" in my hand.

Customizing a knife is taking the "likes" of a knife designer and making it my own, which is, essentially, what Spyderco does with its own collaboration efforts. The designers (Smock, Phillips, etc.) didn't hand you a prototype and say, "Here make this exactly like it is," they gave you a design, and then Spyderco tweaked it based on their preferences (cost, clip, blade material, factory of choice, etc.). In most cases, these preferences are based on years of experience on what works best. We see this played out in the forthcoming Spyderco Smock. He designed that knife with a clip, clip position, and lock design (free dropping) that differs from the production model. Well, just like Spyderco, I customize a knife based on my years of experience with what works "best" for me.

But, as I said, I agree with your thoughts as it applies to new community members and new knife buyers, but I hope I provided a window into the reasons behind this behavior. (I'm a Pastor so I study people, their motivations, and what makes them tick.)

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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby SF Native » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:30 am

tps3443 wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:51 pm
I think SAL should make a fixed blade knife like this; picture a Spyderco Native 5, only it doesn’t fold closed. It has a fixed blade, and the sheath matches the handle color. And the G10 sheath has a traditional Spyderco pocket clip, only a little larger.

Can you imagine a very thin and light fixed blade with two piece G10 grips. And a color matching Kydex or G10 sheath?
Already did this. Search for woodcraft mule and you will find it in s30v. Pretty rare now. Hard to find.

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Re: New? Immerse!

Postby Cycletroll » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:03 pm

Ankerson wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:29 pm
I personally give every knife a chance that I get, use it and or test it etc.

Knives are a personal thing and everyone will have different likes and dislikes, how they fit in hand etc.

There is no right and wrong, there are only opinions and what is good for the individual.

In the end it's a great hobby and there is so much to learn that the learning process never ends.
Well said Jim!
I've found that by giving a blade some extended use and carry that I come to love some blades I wouldn't expect to and dislike others I though I would love.


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