Red Loctite Legacy...

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Johnnie1801
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Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby Johnnie1801 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:01 am

So this is my first post in while and it's a bit of a rant. A while ago I dropped my 204p Millie and it developed some bad blade play. It's one of my favorite knives so a couple of days ago I decided to strip it down and reassemble it with new loctite. I got the body screws off using the end of a nail heated up with a lighter, the pivot screws however are a proverbial PITA.

Tried the nail trick with the pivot and no joy, the larger screws don't get hot enough to break the bond. Tried the "Official" Spyderco advice, inserting a torx bit and hitting it a few times with a hammer, no effect whatsoever.

I'm thinking about using a heat gun but I'm worried about damaging the knife, g10, screws and blade etc

Reading through old posts it looks like Spyderco have acknowledged customer complaints and changed back to blue loctite but they have never actually apologized to consumers who purchased products that were manufactured with red loctite.
Currently enjoying Spyderco's in - S30V, VG10, Super Blue, Cruwear x4, CTS XHP, S110V x2, M4 x3, S35VN, CTS 204P x2, S90V, HAP 40, K390, RWL34, MAXAMET, ZDP 189, REX 45


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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby The Deacon » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:04 am

I'd try using a hair dryer, which should get things hot enough to soften the Loctite without damaging anything else, rather than a heat gun.
Paul
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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby Johnnie1801 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:26 am

The Deacon wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:04 am
I'd try using a hair dryer, which should get things hot enough to soften the Loctite without damaging anything else, rather than a heat gun.
Thanks Paul I'll give it a shot next time I get a chance, I think I read that red loctite needs 500 degrees fahrenheit to melt the bond. I was thinking about putting it in boiling water but I guess that's not hot enough.
Currently enjoying Spyderco's in - S30V, VG10, Super Blue, Cruwear x4, CTS XHP, S110V x2, M4 x3, S35VN, CTS 204P x2, S90V, HAP 40, K390, RWL34, MAXAMET, ZDP 189, REX 45


Jon

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tps3443
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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby tps3443 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:36 am

Johnnie1801 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:26 am
The Deacon wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:04 am
I'd try using a hair dryer, which should get things hot enough to soften the Loctite without damaging anything else, rather than a heat gun.
Thanks Paul I'll give it a shot next time I get a chance, I think I read that red loctite needs 500 degrees fahrenheit to melt the bond. I was thinking about putting it in boiling water but I guess that's not hot enough.
You could bake the water in a pot in a oven. It should get to 500F
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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby Xander3Zero » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:54 am

Even with red loctite on the pivot screw, it really shouldn't require that much torque to remove. The amount of additional torque to break the loctite bond is proportionate to the size of the screw in question. Since we are talking about a very small screw here, this isn't something that requires a breaker bar obviously. I would try loosening the pivot with a small ratcheting wrench, say a 4-6" wrench.

Use a high quality torx bit (Wiha, duh) and apply pressure on the wrench so as to push the bit into the screw head firmly. While maintaining this pressure just start to work your hand down the wrench, slowly increasing the applied torque. I would bet that the breakaway torque we are talking about here is somewhere along the lines of 10-20 ft-lbs MAX, which definitely should not strip the screw head if you go about it slowly. Obviously just go slow, and if it starts to feel uncomfortable just stop. I would guess that with a handheld bit driver, most of us are only capable of applying 3-5 ft-lbs, so using a short wrench should allow you to break that free without damaging the screw head. I'm sure others may disagree with me here, but a dab of red loctite on a tiny screw really shouldn't prevent disassembly.

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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby Evil D » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:55 am

tps3443 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:36 am
Johnnie1801 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:26 am
The Deacon wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:04 am
I'd try using a hair dryer, which should get things hot enough to soften the Loctite without damaging anything else, rather than a heat gun.
Thanks Paul I'll give it a shot next time I get a chance, I think I read that red loctite needs 500 degrees fahrenheit to melt the bond. I was thinking about putting it in boiling water but I guess that's not hot enough.
You could bake the water in a pot in a oven. It should get to 500F

Water boils at 212 degrees.



If you don't have a soldering iron, get a metal coat hanger or something like that and heat it until it's glowing and touch it to the screw for a few seconds, then try to break it loose. Repeat until it does.
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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby toxophilus » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:21 am

Johnnie1801 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:26 am

Thanks Paul I'll give it a shot next time I get a chance, I think I read that red loctite needs 500 degrees fahrenheit to melt the bond. I was thinking about putting it in boiling water but I guess that's not hot enough.
I boiled my Manix 2 Blurple for 20 minutes when I couldn’t remove the pivot and another screw; it softened the Loctite enough to remove those stubborn screws !

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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby The Deacon » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:21 pm

toxophilus wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:21 am
Johnnie1801 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:26 am

Thanks Paul I'll give it a shot next time I get a chance, I think I read that red loctite needs 500 degrees fahrenheit to melt the bond. I was thinking about putting it in boiling water but I guess that's not hot enough.
I boiled my Manix 2 Blurple for 20 minutes when I couldn’t remove the pivot and another screw; it softened the Loctite enough to remove those stubborn screws !

That would definitely be worth a try.

If all else fails, I don't know what prices are like in Europe, but here in the US you can pick up an inexpensive soldering pencil for five or six bucks, and that would heat the pivot screw a lot better than a nail and a lighter.
Paul
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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby ferider » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:30 pm

Yep, the green 204p Milli has red loctite, and the Pivot is large on this 2017+ version :(

Use a Wiha Torx driver with red handle, and put pressure on it. I had to wrap the drive handle in a paper towel.

Roland.

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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby tps3443 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 pm

Evil D wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:55 am
tps3443 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:36 am
Johnnie1801 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:26 am
The Deacon wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:04 am
I'd try using a hair dryer, which should get things hot enough to soften the Loctite without damaging anything else, rather than a heat gun.
Thanks Paul I'll give it a shot next time I get a chance, I think I read that red loctite needs 500 degrees fahrenheit to melt the bond. I was thinking about putting it in boiling water but I guess that's not hot enough.
You could bake the water in a pot in a oven. It should get to 500F

Water boils at 212 degrees.




If you don't have a soldering iron, get a metal coat hanger or something like that and heat it until it's glowing and touch it to the screw for a few seconds, then try to break it loose. Repeat until it does.
You can still heat the water to 500f in a oven.
“My daily razor blade”
Spyderco PM2 DLC/BLK S30V
Microtech Dirac Delta CTS-204P
^Wicked Edge guided system^

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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby Xander3Zero » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:04 pm

tps3443 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 pm
Evil D wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:55 am
tps3443 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:36 am
Johnnie1801 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:26 am


Thanks Paul I'll give it a shot next time I get a chance, I think I read that red loctite needs 500 degrees fahrenheit to melt the bond. I was thinking about putting it in boiling water but I guess that's not hot enough.
You could bake the water in a pot in a oven. It should get to 500F

Water boils at 212 degrees.




If you don't have a soldering iron, get a metal coat hanger or something like that and heat it until it's glowing and touch it to the screw for a few seconds, then try to break it loose. Repeat until it does.
You can still heat the water to 500f in a oven.
At standard pressure (1 atm) water cannot exist above 212°F.

Rutger
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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby Rutger » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:21 pm

I've found that a soldering iron is the best to get stuff loose. They are very cheap to get and it is a very handy tool to own. Just make sure you get one with a fine tip.

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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby Extra330SC » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:24 pm

Johnnie1801 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:01 am
So this is my first post in while and it's a bit of a rant. A while ago I dropped my 204p Millie and it developed some bad blade play. It's one of my favorite knives so a couple of days ago I decided to strip it down and reassemble it with new loctite. I got the body screws off using the end of a nail heated up with a lighter, the pivot screws however are a proverbial PITA.

Tried the nail trick with the pivot and no joy, the larger screws don't get hot enough to break the bond. Tried the "Official" Spyderco advice, inserting a torx bit and hitting it a few times with a hammer, no effect whatsoever.

I'm thinking about using a heat gun but I'm worried about damaging the knife, g10, screws and blade etc

Reading through old posts it looks like Spyderco have acknowledged customer complaints and changed back to blue loctite but they have never actually apologized to consumers who purchased products that were manufactured with red loctite.
Before I found higher quality knives like spyderco, I was buying inexpensive folders off Amazon that seemed to be caked with Loctite. I've had great success breaking the bond with a solder iron with a fine tip. I lay the tip into the removable pivot screw and leave it on until I feel the heat transfer to the other side....then use a good quality tool to remove the pivot! Does no damage the surrounding G10/Carbon / titanium etc.

James

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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby brainfriction » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:42 pm

I've only been able to break the loctite with a heat gun on the Taichung models, as for red loctite the fastest and easiest way for me was always using mapp or propane torch, and since thats out of the equation the tip of a soldering iron is probably the best bet. I think I would probably try to make some kind of heat sink/shield to keep the heat from building up on the scales.

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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby The Deacon » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:25 pm

tps3443 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 pm
You can still heat the water to 500f in a oven.

What color is the sun on your planet, or are there more than one?
Paul
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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby Bloke » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:42 pm

The Deacon wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:25 pm
tps3443 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 pm
You can still heat the water to 500f in a oven.

What color is the sun on your planet, or are there more than one?

Image
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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby Sharp Guy » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:56 pm

Copied from another thread....
Sharp Guy wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:38 pm
Lay the knife down so the pivot is resting on a block of wood (or something reasonably solid so it doesn't trash the knife), insert the appropriate sized torx bit (T10?) in the pivot screw that you want to loosen, give the end of the torx bit a few sharp smacks with a plastic mallet. You can use a small hammer too just don't hit it too hard and damage the knife. This should loosen the thread locker enough to unscrew the pivot screw. I've done it several times now and it's worked every time. I just did it the other night to my Rex Para 3.

This is the set up I use but the other night I just hit the end of the torx bit.

Image
I'm not sure why people are reluctant to try this method. It works great.
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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby The Deacon » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:00 pm

Sharp Guy wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:56 pm
I'm not sure why people are reluctant to try this method. It works great.
Johnnie1801 wrote: So this is my first post in while and it's a bit of a rant. A while ago I dropped my 204p Millie and it developed some bad blade play. It's one of my favorite knives so a couple of days ago I decided to strip it down and reassemble it with new loctite. I got the body screws off using the end of a nail heated up with a lighter, the pivot screws however are a proverbial PITA.

Tried the nail trick with the pivot and no joy, the larger screws don't get hot enough to break the bond. Tried the "Official" Spyderco advice, inserting a torx bit and hitting it a few times with a hammer, no effect whatsoever.

I'm thinking about using a heat gun but I'm worried about damaging the knife, g10, screws and blade etc

Reading through old posts it looks like Spyderco have acknowledged customer complaints and changed back to blue loctite but they have never actually apologized to consumers who purchased products that were manufactured with red loctite.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!

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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby Mstach07 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:10 pm

Extra330SC wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:24 pm
Johnnie1801 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:01 am
So this is my first post in while and it's a bit of a rant. A while ago I dropped my 204p Millie and it developed some bad blade play. It's one of my favorite knives so a couple of days ago I decided to strip it down and reassemble it with new loctite. I got the body screws off using the end of a nail heated up with a lighter, the pivot screws however are a proverbial PITA.

Tried the nail trick with the pivot and no joy, the larger screws don't get hot enough to break the bond. Tried the "Official" Spyderco advice, inserting a torx bit and hitting it a few times with a hammer, no effect whatsoever.

I'm thinking about using a heat gun but I'm worried about damaging the knife, g10, screws and blade etc

Reading through old posts it looks like Spyderco have acknowledged customer complaints and changed back to blue loctite but they have never actually apologized to consumers who purchased products that were manufactured with red loctite.
Before I found higher quality knives like spyderco, I was buying inexpensive folders off Amazon that seemed to be caked with Loctite. I've had great success breaking the bond with a solder iron with a fine tip. I lay the tip into the removable pivot screw and leave it on until I feel the heat transfer to the other side....then use a good quality tool to remove the pivot! Does no damage the surrounding G10/Carbon / titanium etc.

James
I have also had great success with a solder iron and patience. I haven’t needed it to heat through the other side to obtain screw movement

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Re: Red Loctite Legacy...

Postby Sharp Guy » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:24 pm

The Deacon wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:00 pm
Sharp Guy wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:56 pm
I'm not sure why people are reluctant to try this method. It works great.
Johnnie1801 wrote: So this is my first post in while and it's a bit of a rant. A while ago I dropped my 204p Millie and it developed some bad blade play. It's one of my favorite knives so a couple of days ago I decided to strip it down and reassemble it with new loctite. I got the body screws off using the end of a nail heated up with a lighter, the pivot screws however are a proverbial PITA.

Tried the nail trick with the pivot and no joy, the larger screws don't get hot enough to break the bond. Tried the "Official" Spyderco advice, inserting a torx bit and hitting it a few times with a hammer, no effect whatsoever.

I'm thinking about using a heat gun but I'm worried about damaging the knife, g10, screws and blade etc

Reading through old posts it looks like Spyderco have acknowledged customer complaints and changed back to blue loctite but they have never actually apologized to consumers who purchased products that were manufactured with red loctite.
Please forgive me! I guess that'll teach me to read a thread while at work and in a hurry and then reply later without re-reading.

To OP, I would suggest trying the shock method again. Maybe give it a few more whacks but a little harder. Also use good Torx bits in a driver that gives you plenty of leverage. I've used this method a lot and it's always worked for me.
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!


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