The Brouwer's Clip - More than meets the eye, perfectly meets the hand

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Spydergirl88
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Re: The Brouwer's Clip - More than meets the eye, perfectly meets the hand

Postby Spydergirl88 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:51 pm

kvdo wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:26 pm
Image
Image
Hi kvdo, I think we have similar sized hands. Do you find the G10 on the Brouwer to be more grippy than say the G10 on the PM2? Mine seems slightly grippier.

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Re: The Brouwer's Clip - More than meets the eye, perfectly meets the hand

Postby kvdo » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:58 pm

Spydergirl88 wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:51 pm
kvdo wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:26 pm
(image)
(image)
Hi kvdo, I think we have similar sized hands. Do you find the G10 on the Brouwer to be more grippy than say the G10 on the PM2? Mine seems slightly grippier.

It does look like our hands are right about the same size.

I pulled out a new PM2, new Para3, and a used Para3. The new PM2 and Para3 feel the same to each other and just a bit more grippy compared to the Brouwer, while the used Para3 feels slightly less grippy vs the Brouwer. The G10 on the para/military series loses a little bite after a few months of carry, perhaps that's the main difference here.

One thing I do notice that's a bit strange is that the Brouwer almost feels like it has a finer "grain" of texture?

Maybe the nature of G10 being a composite material makes it a little inconsistent from batch to batch of how close glass fibers are to the surface, which affect the initial feeling of traction. Just spitballing here though.

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Re: The Brouwer's Clip - More than meets the eye, perfectly meets the hand

Postby Spydergirl88 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:03 pm

The G10 on my Brouwer almost feels like peel ply g10 it's so grippy. I'm probably just used to my Lil Native's g10 texture which is smoother from months of daily carry/use.

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Re: The Brouwer's Clip - More than meets the eye, perfectly meets the hand

Postby Sharp Guy » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:15 pm

Spydergirl88 wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:03 pm
The G10 on my Brouwer almost feels like peel ply g10 it's so grippy.
I could certainly be mistaken but isn't the texture on G10 created by using the peel-ply technique?
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Re: The Brouwer's Clip - More than meets the eye, perfectly meets the hand

Postby Spydergirl88 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:24 pm

Sharp Guy wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:15 pm
Spydergirl88 wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:03 pm
The G10 on my Brouwer almost feels like peel ply g10 it's so grippy.
I could certainly be mistaken but isn't the texture on G10 created by using the peel-ply technique?
My bad I meant peel ply carbon fiber the really grippy stuff like on the sprint para 3 s90v

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Re: The Brouwer's Clip - More than meets the eye, perfectly meets the hand

Postby dj moonbat » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:12 am

MichaelScott wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:12 pm
tvenuto wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:01 pm
It's a fine point, but to me, a folder has ergonomic compromises to enable carry. Not least of these compromises is a relatively narrow handle lacking major contouring.
I disagree. Ergonomic in the sense of knife use relates to everything but a clip, then in a mostly negative connotation. The Rhino has a handle as thick as the Lil’ Native and is far from lacking in major contouring. And, it carries fine with the stock clip.
tvenuto wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:01 pm
The clip should primarily allow the knife to carry well, and shouldn't compromise that to feel slightly better in hand, since you're probably not doing extended cutting with it anyway. If you plan on that, carry an original D'allara, which has the ergos of a fixed blade.
The clip should primarily allow the knife to stay where it is clipped. It should not interfere with the knife’s primary purpose which is to cut things. Too often it is not a matter of “slightly” uncomfortable but one of basic irritation and pain.

So, according to your logic, if I plan to do extended cutting, whatever that means, I should plan on switching to the other extensive cutting knife I happen to carry for that purpose.

My notion is that a clip on a knife should not interfere unduly with the knife’s primary purpose which isn’t to carry well in a pocket.
er·go·nom·ic
[ˌərɡəˈnämik]
ADJECTIVE
relating to or designed for efficiency and comfort in the working environment.

People around these parts have adopted a cramped and incorrect understanding of what ergonomic(s) means. It's not 'how this knife fits in the hand' (though that's obviously a huge part of the equation). It's 'how this knife's design and construction accommodate patterns of use.'

One of those patterns of use in a modern working knife (a pattern that Spyderco basically invented) is the fastening of the knife to a pocket, belt, etc. where it may subsequently be deployed. If this pattern is lacking in smoothness, or if the position of a knife in a pocket causes discomfort while the knife waits for later cutting, that is poor ergonomics. If the ergonomics of carry and the ergonomics of cutting are in tension, there's obviously a strong case that the ergonomics of carry should yield to the knife's central purpose. But that's not to say that knife ergonomics is only concerned with the act of cutting itself. If that were the case, the entire notion of a folder would be bad ergonomics.


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Re: The Brouwer's Clip - More than meets the eye, perfectly meets the hand

Postby MichaelScott » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:14 am

“er·go·nom·ic
[ˌərɡəˈnämik]
ADJECTIVE
relating to or designed for efficiency and comfort in the working environment.”

Sitting in or clipped in a pocket is not “a working environment”. No work is being done.

The best ergonomic solution for a knife with a clip is to remove the clip before putting the knife to work. We are usually satisfied with the small reduction in the best ergonomic feel to accept a certain level of discomfort when working the knife and clip.

It appears that some who actually have a Brouwer think the clip size and placement seriously reduces the ergonomic discomfort. Others don’t. My point is that all of the cries of doom and terrible design are way overblown.
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Re: The Brouwer's Clip - More than meets the eye, perfectly meets the hand

Postby MichaelScott » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:04 am

OK, I watched the Rhino review. I’ve already commented on “the not quite sold” review. I have a Rhino. It’s one of my favorites. It is completely stock. I merely moved the clip to the opposite side (I am right handed). I do this with most of my
Spydercos or remove it entirely to improve the ergonomics. I don’t care about fast draw and flicking. I care more about how the knife fits my hand while I am using it.

The Rhino review. Obviously the reviewer is a clip focused guy. He spent too much time complaining about the standard clips on Spyderco’s small knives, except of course when they are furnished with wire clips. He wants all small knives to have wire, deep carry clips. Fine. I don’t. I’ve had issues with the wire clips and don’t entirely trust them, having lost two Spydercos because of faulty clip attachments.

The Rhino does not “need” jimping. The shape of the handle and blade so locks the knife into the hand that jimping would be superfluous and uncomfortable.

The tip is not “robust”. It doesn’t need to be thinner.

I suppose if a viewer knows absolutely nothing about the knife, a recitation of the specifications are in order, but I find this mostly unnecessary. Or, it should be text on the screen instead of a long recitation. This review took nineteen minutes. Really? Nineteen minutes on a pocket knife? Like most knife reviews, he spends far too much time stating the obvious. Yes, we can see the large cutout for the spydie hole. Yes, we can see the open construction. Yes, we can see the tiny portion of the edge in the compression lock cut out. Yes, we can see the blade shape.

If I had to summarize the video it would be: “l hate Spyderco clips on small knives. I think all small knives must have deep carry wire clips. I like the Rhino even though it should have features I like, but it doesn’t. I hate Spyderco clips.”
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Re: The Brouwer's Clip - More than meets the eye, perfectly meets the hand

Postby tvenuto » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:07 am

MichaelScott wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:14 am
My point is that all of the cries of doom and terrible design are way overblown.
Describing valid criticism as "cries of doom and terrible design" is what's overblown.

What I find strange is that the people who think the clip makes the knife ride too high are NOT trying to convince others to think so as well. It seems that people who think the clip is not misplaced are intent on convincing those who don't agree, an endeavor that seems rather pointless to me.

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Re: The Brouwer's Clip - More than meets the eye, perfectly meets the hand

Postby MichaelScott » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:19 am

If it was stated as a matter of opinion and preference, then ok. But it’s usually accompanied by Spyderco bashing and demands that they comply with the complainer’s wishes.

If I recall correctly the reviewer even stated that it is mandatory to replace the Spyderco clips when one buys a knife.

It’s egregious and I don’t like it.
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Re: The Brouwer's Clip - More than meets the eye, perfectly meets the hand

Postby ZrowsN1s » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:48 pm

Idealy every knife should have it's own clip design.

In pocket I like deep carry on some knives and not others. And once you've decided that for the individual knife, then comes the important, how does it feel in hand?

It's a lot to ask of a 'standard clip'.
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