How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

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SpyderEdgeForever
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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:11 pm

TomAiello wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:04 pm
It sounds like you're saying that the stain resistance of ZDP is just like the stain resistance of almost any knife steel--it depends on the heat treat. Is that right?
This is also a question I have on ZDP. One of my main reservations for choosing not to get a ZDP Endura, infact, was precisely this issue. I do not want a blade that will develop pits or flakes of rust in it if I can help it.

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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby dreadpirate » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:29 am

I guess the biggest thing that put me off on ZDP 189 is a YouTube where a guy cut coax cable with his ZPD189 Stretch (or maybe Endura, don't recall) and he took a chunk out of the blade. And I just thought; wow this is brittle steel. I will grant you that was a stupid thing to do. He seemed to feel it was a reasonable task for a working knife. I have never fretted over corrosion resistance. I am pretty good about keeping my knives clean.

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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby dreadpirate » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:30 am

And when I say chunk; I mean a notch the size of the wire core in the 75 ohm cable. He wrecked that blade.

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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby vivi » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:49 am

dreadpirate wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:29 am
I guess the biggest thing that put me off on ZDP 189 is a YouTube where a guy cut coax cable with his ZPD189 Stretch (or maybe Endura, don't recall) and he took a chunk out of the blade. And I just thought; wow this is brittle steel. I will grant you that was a stupid thing to do. He seemed to feel it was a reasonable task for a working knife. I have never fretted over corrosion resistance. I am pretty good about keeping my knives clean.
Turns out cutting steel cabling can damage strips of steel only a few microns thick, if that.

I think the ZDP/CF Stretch is one of the best folders Spyderco has put out.
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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby ZrowsN1s » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:50 pm

Daveho wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:01 am
ZrowsN1s wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:21 pm
I've seen ZDP get a few specks of rust. But my buddy who carries ZDP exclusively is the kind of guy who doesn't do much knife maintenance, he'll cut food with it and give it a paper towel wipe off and put it back in his pocket (if he wipes it off at all). With absolute minimal (to no) maintenance even after 2 years his knives look pretty good. They look used, but not rusted, and not patina'd like a tool steel would be.
He’s like me and here’s a tip when using knives for lunch time food prep you can give your knife a sneaky wipe on your sock to remove the yuck ;)
Perfect
:D Ha. I'll pass along the tip.
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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby dreadpirate » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:45 pm

It's just a matter of time until I get a ZPD189 steel knife.

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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby Sharp Guy » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:36 pm

dreadpirate wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:45 pm
It's just a matter of time until I get a ZPD189 steel knife.
Good plan! I've been very happy with my ZDP knives.
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:56 am

Why doesn't Spyderco and the Japanese steel people come up with a form of ZDP that is more rust resistant but retains its basic qualities?

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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby awa54 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:19 pm

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:56 am
Why doesn't Spyderco and the Japanese steel people come up with a form of ZDP that is more rust resistant but retains its basic qualities?

ZDP 189 is already at the outer fringe of both performance and alloy content, any significant change to the makeup would likely alter the characteristics as far as carbide volume and hardenability go (which are the things people love about ZDP).
-David

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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby Mattysc42 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:58 pm

Swap a portion of the carbon for nitrogen.
BRING ON THE MANIX XL SPRINTS AND EXCLUSIVES! And 10v or K390ify the Golden lineup, please.

Top 5 folders I’ve owned: Serrated Caribbean Leaf, Shaman, Manix XL, ZDP-189/CF Caly 3.5, Native LW.
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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:45 pm

Mattysc42 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:58 pm
Swap a portion of the carbon for nitrogen.
This is an interesting idea you propose. That would be a sort of "Nitrogen ZDP steel". I like the idea. I would very much appreciate more feedback on this.

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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby Ankerson » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:13 pm

Vivi wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:38 am
If you read threads on this forum from five years ago, apparently everyone viewed ZDP189 as what it is - a stainless steel used on some Spyderco knives.

If you read threads from the past year, ZDP189 is now considered a carbon steel with no corrosion resistance.

Why has the perception of this stainless steel changed so much and what started this false rumor that ZDP189 is not a stainless steel?

Can anyone show me a ZDP189 knife with worse corrosion resistance than D2? Every single ZDP189 knife I've used has been magnitudes more corrosion resistant than D2, and in a completely sifferent dimension than stuff like O1, S7, 1095 etc.

Why is the corrosion resistance of these steels being equated, when they're so clearly on different levels?

ZDP189 is not a stainless steel, almost all of the chromium is tied up into making carbides.

It was developed that way.

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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby npad69 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:24 pm

Ankerson wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:13 pm
ZDP189 is not a stainless steel, almost all of the chromium is tied up into making carbides.

It was developed that way.
is why my cruwear is more corrosion resistant than my zdp?

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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby vivi » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:42 pm

Ankerson wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:13 pm
Vivi wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:38 am
If you read threads on this forum from five years ago, apparently everyone viewed ZDP189 as what it is - a stainless steel used on some Spyderco knives.

If you read threads from the past year, ZDP189 is now considered a carbon steel with no corrosion resistance.

Why has the perception of this stainless steel changed so much and what started this false rumor that ZDP189 is not a stainless steel?

Can anyone show me a ZDP189 knife with worse corrosion resistance than D2? Every single ZDP189 knife I've used has been magnitudes more corrosion resistant than D2, and in a completely sifferent dimension than stuff like O1, S7, 1095 etc.

Why is the corrosion resistance of these steels being equated, when they're so clearly on different levels?

ZDP189 is not a stainless steel, almost all of the chromium is tied up into making carbides.

It was developed that way.
Do you have any sources?

ZDP189 certainly behaves like a stainless steel for me, and I push corrosion resistance much harder than most. All sources I've read agree it's on par with 440C in this respect.

This is data from Hitachi themselves:

Image

What do you know about ZDP189 that Hitachi does not?
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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby NoFair » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:40 am

My ZDP CF Stretch has gotten light staining on the sides of the blade, not rust just slight patina. It's been used for everything since it came out and I've never seen rust on it. Never chipped either, but I try not to hack or torque the blade when cutting :D

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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby Tdog » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:01 am

Wouldn't consider my cf Caly 3.5 stainless. Without routine and fairly quick maintenance it will have rust forming along the clad lines, edge and jimping. Hit it with quick Flitz pretty often. Though the chromium content is high, I don't consider ZDP a stainless steel.

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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby The Deacon » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:06 am

Two things put me off ZDP-189, the staining/rusting issue was one, but just as important was I see it as paying more for deferred maintenance in that, while it holds an edge longer than VG-10, it take similarly longer to sharpen.
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Re: How did ZDP189 go from a stainless steel to carbon steel?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:00 pm

I have had mine randomly stain. It was always a strange sort of staining that looked bad so have always polished it off. I definitely do not consider it stainless.
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