Are lightweight versions hindering supersteel potenial?

[SG89]

Putting a supersteel in a LW model keeps costs down and allows more people to try them that otherwise could not afford the supersteel g10 models

[steelcity16]

Putting a supersteel in a LW model keeps costs down and allows more people to try them that otherwise could not afford the supersteel g10 models

Exactly...hence my idea of the "Mani-Mule". Taking the existing Manix LW platform and using it as a test bed for new steels. Keeps it affordable and a more convenient package for EDC and real world use than a fixed blade mule.

[dsvirsky]

The popular perception that unlined FRN isn't "strong enough" is no more than that, perception. While some may feel FRN handles flex too much without liners, I am unaware of a single example of a Spyderco handle failing and I've been on this forum since the beginning. My Maxamet Native 5 can handle any cutting task my overbuilt Strider PT can handle.

[TkoK83Spy]

Granted it's not a super steel (CTS BD1)...I use this knife quite heavily while camping, gardening and landscaping. Maybe because it didn't cost me $150+...but I've yet to feel like I might be pushing it too far, that it can't handle what I'm throwing at it. I have felt the handle ever so slightly flex before, but was never concerned. Now throw an even better steel on it and it would just be that much better of a worker.

[Pelagic]

The popular perception that unlined FRN isn't "strong enough" is no more than that, perception. While some may feel FRN handles flex too much without liners, I am unaware of a single example of a Spyderco handle failing and I've been on this forum since the beginning. My Maxamet Native 5 can handle any cutting task my overbuilt Strider PT can handle.

Indeed, perception. The following is actually true.

I once met a person who said "I haven't been wearing my seat belt for over 20 years. I drive slowly and safely, so I don't really need it. I've driven like this for quite a long time and I'm fine."

Of course, I laughed and explained why it was better for him (and his loved ones) to wear his seat belt while driving. But he truly thought that his anecdotal experience was irrefutable evidence that it wasn't necessary (given, he did live in a rural area with very little traffic, the point remains).

Between straight FRN liners and steel liners + g10 scales, I'd have to say one is stronger. So if something unexpected happens and lateral pressure is introduced to the blade, one would fair better than the other. I'd always like the stronger option personally.

Regarding this thread, I do think FRN is enough for low toughness steels made for cutting soft abrasives all day (well, I actually like the ergos of g10 better...). But if I had a steel like cruwear or 4v, I would definitely feel like lightweight models would be holding me back. I would baby the tough steel without thinking of it, and to me that would be a waste of toughness regarding the steel.

[ladybug93]

i've never needed steel liners and g10 on my xhp lw manix. it’s plenty sturdy in frcp.

[vivi]

The popular perception that unlined FRN isn't "strong enough" is no more than that, perception. While some may feel FRN handles flex too much without liners, I am unaware of a single example of a Spyderco handle failing and I've been on this forum since the beginning. My Maxamet Native 5 can handle any cutting task my overbuilt Strider PT can handle.

Indeed, perception. The following is actually true.

I once met a person who said "I haven't been wearing my seat belt for over 20 years. I drive slowly and safely, so I don't really need it. I've driven like this for quite a long time and I'm fine."

Of course, I laughed and explained why it was better for him (and his loved ones) to wear his seat belt while driving. But he truly thought that his anecdotal experience was irrefutable evidence that it wasn't necessary (given, he did live in a rural area with very little traffic, the point remains).

Between straight FRN liners and steel liners + g10 scales, I'd have to say one is stronger. So if something unexpected happens and lateral pressure is introduced to the blade, one would fair better than the other. I'd always like the stronger option personally.

Regarding this thread, I do think FRN is enough for low toughness steels made for cutting soft abrasives all day (well, I actually like the ergos of g10 better...). But if I had a steel like cruwear or 4v, I would definitely feel like lightweight models would be holding me back. I would baby the tough steel without thinking of it, and to me that would be a waste of toughness regarding the steel.

What things do you use a 3" blade folding knife for that steel liners are required?

[wrdwrght]

I, too, prefer the look and feel of G10, but I certainly don’t doubt the strength and the art of volcano and bi-directional FRN in my Salts, and in my one, lately acquired Delica.

I’ve said it before, had I acquired my Delica first, I would have been slower to acquire my other, mostly G10 Spydies.

[Pelagic]

The popular perception that unlined FRN isn't "strong enough" is no more than that, perception. While some may feel FRN handles flex too much without liners, I am unaware of a single example of a Spyderco handle failing and I've been on this forum since the beginning. My Maxamet Native 5 can handle any cutting task my overbuilt Strider PT can handle.

Indeed, perception. The following is actually true.

I once met a person who said "I haven't been wearing my seat belt for over 20 years. I drive slowly and safely, so I don't really need it. I've driven like this for quite a long time and I'm fine."

Of course, I laughed and explained why it was better for him (and his loved ones) to wear his seat belt while driving. But he truly thought that his anecdotal experience was irrefutable evidence that it wasn't necessary (given, he did live in a rural area with very little traffic, the point remains).

Between straight FRN liners and steel liners + g10 scales, I'd have to say one is stronger. So if something unexpected happens and lateral pressure is introduced to the blade, one would fair better than the other. I'd always like the stronger option personally.

Regarding this thread, I do think FRN is enough for low toughness steels made for cutting soft abrasives all day (well, I actually like the ergos of g10 better...). But if I had a steel like cruwear or 4v, I would definitely feel like lightweight models would be holding me back. I would baby the tough steel without thinking of it, and to me that would be a waste of toughness regarding the steel.

What things do you use a 3" blade folding knife for that steel liners are required?

The example I provided begs the question, to you, Vivi:

In what situation while driving a car is a seat belt necessary?

[Pelagic]

Another question is, does spyderco overbuild their knives?

Yet another question is, is strength really a weakness?

It seems to be a common theme in the knife community, especially in bladeforums, that strongly built folders are unnecessary. I understand that completely. But it seems to be to the point (at times) that if a newer much stronger material was discovered, it would be rejected by the majority. I may be one of the only voices reminding spyderco that there are some people who value strong, rugged folders. But I'm absolutely fine with that. At the same time, I know I'm not the only one, so I like seeing such people have a voice.

[Halfneck]

No, but the heavier knives do lose out on carry time to the lighter ones.

[vivi]

The popular perception that unlined FRN isn't "strong enough" is no more than that, perception. While some may feel FRN handles flex too much without liners, I am unaware of a single example of a Spyderco handle failing and I've been on this forum since the beginning. My Maxamet Native 5 can handle any cutting task my overbuilt Strider PT can handle.

Indeed, perception. The following is actually true.

I once met a person who said "I haven't been wearing my seat belt for over 20 years. I drive slowly and safely, so I don't really need it. I've driven like this for quite a long time and I'm fine."

Of course, I laughed and explained why it was better for him (and his loved ones) to wear his seat belt while driving. But he truly thought that his anecdotal experience was irrefutable evidence that it wasn't necessary (given, he did live in a rural area with very little traffic, the point remains).

Between straight FRN liners and steel liners + g10 scales, I'd have to say one is stronger. So if something unexpected happens and lateral pressure is introduced to the blade, one would fair better than the other. I'd always like the stronger option personally.

Regarding this thread, I do think FRN is enough for low toughness steels made for cutting soft abrasives all day (well, I actually like the ergos of g10 better...). But if I had a steel like cruwear or 4v, I would definitely feel like lightweight models would be holding me back. I would baby the tough steel without thinking of it, and to me that would be a waste of toughness regarding the steel.

What things do you use a 3" blade folding knife for that steel liners are required?

The example I provided begs the question, to you, Vivi:

In what situation while driving a car is a seat belt necessary?

That isn't a good analogy.

[vivi]

Another question is, does spyderco overbuild their knives?

Yet another question is, is strength really a weakness?

It seems to be a common theme in the knife community, especially in bladeforums, that strongly built folders are unnecessary. I understand that completely. But it seems to be to the point (at times) that if a newer much stronger material was discovered, it would be rejected by the majority. I may be one of the only voices reminding spyderco that there are some people who value strong, rugged folders. But I'm absolutely fine with that. At the same time, I know I'm not the only one, so I like seeing such people have a voice.

Plenty of us value tough knives.

However I can't think of a single thing my lined Spydercos can do that my unlined ones cannot.

Can you?

[TomAiello]

For me the lined G-10 handles are just about feeling more "high end". There really isn't a functional difference in my uses. It's just a question of wanting to "dress it up" more.

[vivi]

For me the lined G-10 handles are just about feeling more "high end". There really isn't a functional difference in my uses. It's just a question of wanting to "dress it up" more.

My Manix XL definitely feels like a higher end knife than my Pacific Salt....but the latter does see a lot more pocket time.

[embry386]

The lightweight knives Spyderco has made in recent years are rock-solid and very tough. The Endura and the Native are ones that I own, and with those models, you would snap the blade off far before the handle broke. Perhaps the reputation that plastic-handled knives have for cheapness and flimsiness comes from other brands who make cheap knives and use plastic for their handles? Or from really old Spyderco models from the 80s and 90s -- I own a couple, and while they're plenty tough and useable, they have a slight flex in their handles that has been eliminated in the more recent models.

Many of the lightweight Spydies I do find to be way overbuilt though. The Endura has those unpleasant steel liners, which add weight and change the balance, and that's the reason that I never carry it, even though I love the look and the ergos and the blade shape and literally everything else about it. Compare with the Native, which has no liners: they feel equally as tough and solid, but the Native's incredible lightweight design makes it the better knife for me. I wish they'd make a long knife that's really lightweight, none of this "plastic layer on the outside to make it look lightweight, but big chunks of heavy steel hiding under that" business.

[vivi]

I wish they'd make a long knife that's really lightweight, none of this "plastic layer on the outside to make it look lightweight, but big chunks of heavy steel hiding under that" business.

Me too! I have some of the old Voyagers with 5-6" blades and no liners, their weight to length ratio is out of this world. The old Catcherman has a 4.5" blade and weighs 2.5oz! I want knives like that.

The Tatanka is cool but I know I wouldn't carry it much weighing 9oz. But a knife with similar dimensions, FFG, no liners, and 4-5oz weight would be amazing.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I agree with Vivi and Peacent. The light weight models are good and need to stay and continue.

Viva Pacific Salt! :)

[MichaelScott]

Some perspective:
Rhino: 2.3 oz
Para 3: 3.4 oz
One-Eyed Jack: 3.7 oz
Para Military 2: 3.9 oz
iphone 6: 4.5 oz
average pair of jeans: 16 oz

Discussions of why lightweight knives are superior in terms of carry weight to heavy (i.e. Para Military 2 or One-Eyed Jack) are interesting but not very significant except under special circumstances. Some people carry cocked-and-locked .45s and double stack 9mm without much complaint. I don’t see how two or three ounces in one’s knife choice makes much difference.

[dsvirsky]

Some perspective:
Some people carry cocked-and-locked .45s and double stack 9mm without much complaint. I don’t see how two or three ounces in one’s knife choice makes much difference.

It all depends on what I'm wearing. If I'm wearing jeans with a double thickness gun belt, the weight of my knife doesn't matter. However, around the house, I generally wear lightweight cotton shorts or sweatpants, both of which tend to have flimsy pockets that are not pocket clip friendly. Under these circumstances, every ounce matters.