A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 20030
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby Evil D » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:05 pm

Well, I guess I'll offset a little of the recent H1 and DLC praise with a slight reality check. No steel is immune to edge damage, and H1 is no exception. Despite recent reports of 180 degree bent tips and such, it will still chip and roll under the right circumstances.

And, it seems those circumstances would be cutting through two strands of coax cable at once. I didn't realize how much metal core there actually was in this stuff until it was too late. It also took a few good rips/sawing motions to get completely through it but by then the damage was done.


The cable I cut...and this is the ONLY cut I made..
Image


The aftermath...
Image
Image
Image

I've started back on the brown rods to try to smooth out those teeth, but you can see several of them are actually chipped off. This was the biggest surprise of all of this, I expected them to roll before actually chipping but there's actually only one tooth that's rolled and it's towards the tip of the blade. This isn't the end of the world for me, since I prefer the teeth to be more rounded than pointy, but the chipping was definitely a surprise. This also was far from being a factory edge and has been sharpened a whole lot of times, as is evident by the visible not-so-micro bevel. I can also assure you there was no burr or anything like that to cause the chips.



As for DLC, it's a pretty amazing coating but it too is not impervious to scratches. What you will see a lot of times are rub marks from other materials and even other metals, and these marks can often be polished off with some Flitz. I was able to get most of what looked like horrible scratches removed, but what you see left are actual scratches down to the metal. There is one scratch on the front side that has a gold hue to it that seems more like a metal transfer but for the life of me I can't get it to polish off.

Image
Image

I believe some of these ^^^ at the top flat part of the blade were actually there before this ordeal and I think they're from pocket change, but that's the best I could get them to polish away. That said, it's amazing how much of what looked like horrible scratches were in fact just transfer marks and they polished off. DLC is no joke. I'm fairly sure DLC is actually harder than the H1 underneath it. I would still expect it to scratch from other abuses like cutting up steel cans or any brushes with rocks or stuff that you really shouldn't be using a knife on anyway.


For anyone interested, here's a breakdown of what's inside a coax cable. That center core is solid copper.
Image

I suppose another way to look at this is that H1 is in fact quite tough, since one has to wonder how other steels would have performed in the same situation. I'm still more surprised to see chips than rolled teeth though.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

The Meat man
Member
Posts: 2456
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:01 pm
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby The Meat man » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:26 pm

Very interesting David. That coaxial cable looks like nasty stuff though. Not surprised there is some edge damage, but yeah that chipping sure doesn't seem what you'd expect from H-1.

When I first got my Pacific Salt, I used it to chop (literally) through some thick plastic straps. Idiot move. :rolleyes: I didn't notice till I got home, but there was some very bad rolling from that. Took a long time on the Sharpmaker to fix it up. Lesson learned - cut, don't chop. ;)
- Connor

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 20030
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby Evil D » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:28 pm

Yeah that last line of the original post came to be just as I was about to submit this thread. This may have been a whole lot worse with VG10 or S30V.

Come to think of it I do have other SE knives in both those steels. The only question is, how much edge damage do I feel like fixing? Lol
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

zhyla
Member
Posts: 1531
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:12 pm

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby zhyla » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:53 pm

I don’t know if this is a steel issue so much as a geometry issue. I’ve got flush cut nippers that go thru copper like nothing. They’re normal probably medium carbon steel, but they’re shaped for cutting metal. The serrations in particular I think focus too much force on tiny points. Nippers, cable cutters, etc don’t have those high points, so they spread the load better.

User avatar
Sharp Guy
Member
Posts: 4510
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:19 pm
Location: Over here!

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby Sharp Guy » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:54 pm

Evil D wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:28 pm
Come to think of it I do have other SE knives in both those steels. The only question is, how much edge damage do I feel like fixing? Lol
C'mon David! Take one for the team!I know I'd be interested in seeing how SE VG10 & S30V would fare compared to H1. I bet others would too. :)
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

koenigsegg
Member
Posts: 935
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:36 pm

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby koenigsegg » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:07 pm

I would also be interested to see the toughness difference between SE and PE since SE should be harder I would think that could mean more brittle

Do you guys remember seeing this blade? This has always stuck with me (btw not my knife or pics)
ss (2018-09-24 at 10.05.34).jpg
viewtopic.php?t=62419&start=20
S30V, VG10, M4, XHP, BD1, Maxamet, 204P, H1, K390, A11, Cruwear, Rex45, LC200N, M390, 4V

User avatar
ChrisinHove
Member
Posts: 1850
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:12 am
Location: England, still in the EU.

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby ChrisinHove » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:02 am

Trimming some profiled polycarbonate sheeting did for the serrations on my old gin-1 CE UKPK in much the same manner. In hindsight not surprising as what makes the serrations so aggressive also means that their edges are relatively unsupported by adjacent metal.

User avatar
npad69
Member
Posts: 484
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:07 pm
Location: Palawan, Philippines

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby npad69 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:17 am

interesting. perhaps the work-hardening result of grinding serrations in it made it brittle?

User avatar
Bloke
Member
Posts: 3624
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 12:43 am
Location: Sydney, Australia.

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby Bloke » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:06 am

Thanks for sharing D. Sorry about your knife. It’s not what I’d have expected as I’ve rolled and crushed a H1 SE edge but never chipped it.

I don’t rightly know but I’d speculate the braided shield is stainless (?) and I’d be inclined to think perhaps it did the damage by snagging the tips of the teeth rather than the softer copper core but I’m only guessing. :)
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

The Meat man
Member
Posts: 2456
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:01 pm
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby The Meat man » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:26 am

There was a thread not too long ago about someone cutting bamboo with SE H-1. It was the worst case of rolled teeth I ever saw, but I don't think there was any chipping.

^If that is the case Bloke that would help explain it.
- Connor

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 20030
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby Evil D » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:34 am

Well I went out and checked the trash this morning to get that coax back but someone rummaged through it last night and took it. I guess enjoy your cut up cable whoever you are.

I probably have some more somewhere but I would have liked to do any testing with the exact same cable.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

User avatar
legOFwhat?
Member
Posts: 644
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:58 am
Location: Kentucky; Earth

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby legOFwhat? » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:26 am

I had a similar experience with my df2 hb. I was cutting through some rubber EMI gasket with a pull cut forgetting the stainless cable that runs through it. The hawkbill ripped right through it until it reached the top cable and I realized what I just did. I put my head down muttered bonehead to myself and went to the garage to get some side cutters to finish the job. I tried with the SM to clean up the blade and work it back to shape but never could get it back to factory edge. Long story short I sent it back to Golden to let the pro's work it out.
-Larry.

Dorothy Mantooth is a saint!

dsvirsky
Member
Posts: 479
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: SW VA

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby dsvirsky » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:28 am

I dropped my SE ARK and managed to beat the odds by having it land edge first on concrete. Two of the teeth suffered damage through plastic deformation that left them looking very similar to the damaged teeth on your knife.

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 20030
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby Evil D » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:45 am

Well I'm working on it but man those points were seriously jacked up. This is even after quite a bit of work on the brown rods. I may have to get out the diamond rod and reshape them a bit.

This group suffered the worst of it.
Image

This set is more towards the tip but the one to the left was the only one that actually rolled instead of chipping and it basically honed off instead of bending back to a point. I suspect it more or less broke off.
Image
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

bouhunter
Member
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:48 am

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby bouhunter » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:46 am

I would use a pair of appropriate pliers for cutting that, not a knife.

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 20030
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby Evil D » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:51 am

bouhunter wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:46 am
I would use a pair of appropriate pliers for cutting that, not a knife.

Are ya sure? ;)

Hindsight is always 20/20 ain't it?
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 7053
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby Doc Dan » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:18 am

I agree that the mesh looks to be stainless in the one you cut. Perhaps it snagged and snapped off the edges of the teeth as they bent. I am a little surprised but not astounded. That cable is pretty tough stuff.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

"Until we meet again, may the good Lord take a liking to you."
(Roy Rogers)


NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050

User avatar
tvenuto
Member
Posts: 3782
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:16 am
Location: South Baltimore

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby tvenuto » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:22 am

Whenever these threads come up, I always forget to post: ”inb4 someone says ‘you should use the right tool blah blah’” even though the OP is taking full responsibility and is fully aware that their are specialized tools available to handle the task in question.

Perhaps it’s interesting to some people to hear an anecdote about how a knife handled a particular task that was close to the margins of where you might consider using a knife?

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 20030
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby Evil D » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:28 am

I honestly didn't expect it. I've cut so many wires without any issues like this, but I guess coax is a different animal and like I said I just didn't really think about what was inside the wire before I went for it. I didn't think much more than wether or not it was electrical or not. I live in a 50 year old house and for some reason that line was run from my attic and into my bedroom closet. I was cleaning out some clothes I never wear to donate and I decided it was time to get rid of the wire. Sure I've got the right tool for the job but in most cases a wire is not a big deal for a pocket knife, as long as it's not coax lol.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

User avatar
Vivi
Member
Posts: 5652
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: A not-so-tough H1 experience..

Postby Vivi » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:41 am

It helps if you can cut the wire on a hard surface, like a cutting board. Less chance for damage that way.


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: archangel, bbturbodad, camvdcs, Deadboxhero, legOFwhat?, Pelagic, ugaarguy and 33 guests