Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

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vivi
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#21

Post by vivi »

Wanimator wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:50 pm
Or 4v... Honestly. Rex45/m4 and 3v/4v would probably be must buys. But I'd definitely prefer Rex45/M4 by a huge Longshot, in what situation would the need for toughness of 3v/4v even surpass the advantage of hardness/wear resistance of the other mentioned steels?
As someone that's taken S30V XL's down to 10dps and chopped with them, experiencing zero edge damage....I have no clue :p
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#22

Post by SteveMidwest »

A Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4, or Rex-45, would be great! I suspect that the Sales numbers for the XL, are holding them back from Sprint-ing it though.
I am, in my heart. Fully expecting a Manix 2 next year, early, in REX45. Though I haven't yet heard that is going to happen. It just makes so much sense though, that I'm sure it will. As a matter of fact. That is my #1 hope, for 2019.
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#23

Post by Wanimator »

Vivi wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:27 pm
Wanimator wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:50 pm
Or 4v... Honestly. Rex45/m4 and 3v/4v would probably be must buys. But I'd definitely prefer Rex45/M4 by a huge Longshot, in what situation would the need for toughness of 3v/4v even surpass the advantage of hardness/wear resistance of the other mentioned steels?
As someone that's taken S30V XL's down to 10dps and chopped with them, experiencing zero edge damage....I have no clue :p
Pardoning your gross misuse (haha) from that information I'd assume CPM-M4 and Rex-45 would be much better candidates than 3v. Worst personal usage I can think of doing not on purpose is having to cut through ice/frozen meat or animal bone.
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#24

Post by steelcity16 »

Wanimator wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:01 pm
Vivi wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:27 pm
Wanimator wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:50 pm
Or 4v... Honestly. Rex45/m4 and 3v/4v would probably be must buys. But I'd definitely prefer Rex45/M4 by a huge Longshot, in what situation would the need for toughness of 3v/4v even surpass the advantage of hardness/wear resistance of the other mentioned steels?
As someone that's taken S30V XL's down to 10dps and chopped with them, experiencing zero edge damage....I have no clue :p
Pardoning your gross misuse (haha) from that information I'd assume CPM-M4 and Rex-45 would be much better candidates than 3v. Worst personal usage I can think of doing not on purpose is having to cut through ice/frozen meat or animal bone.

The problem with that statement is that you are assuming that all people value wear resistance over toughness. I don't have a need to cut 2000 pieces of cardboard and then shave my arm hairs, so wear resistance isn't the most important attribute of a knife for me. i would rather have a knife that can handle harder tasks without chipping and hit the occasional staple or nail or whatever on accident and not having to worry about how i am going to sharpen a chip out of an already difficult to sharpen steel. i don't mind frequent touchups on the sharpmaker or a steel or strop or whatever. if it is any indication I honestly don't even mind the low wear resistance of PE H1. I love it for its unique combination of stainlessness and toughness. ill happily touch it up when needed. I wish I could get H1 PE (and SE) salts in all of the Golden models I love.

I know Sal and team aren't here to make me custom knives, but there are plenty of people aside from me who want a 3V and 4V folder like a Military, Manix XL, Native, and Para 3. Some people need stainlessness, some want that insane wear resistance, some want easy to sharpen, some want a steel that can get sharp enough to whittle hair, some like a balance, some want toughness. There are enough steels and enough sprints to go around. If they make a 3V or 4V folder think of it as a blessing that your wallet doesn't get a beat down for that week and know that it is making some of us VERY happy. :D
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#25

Post by vivi »

steelcity16 wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:28 pm
Wanimator wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:01 pm
Vivi wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:27 pm
Wanimator wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:50 pm
Or 4v... Honestly. Rex45/m4 and 3v/4v would probably be must buys. But I'd definitely prefer Rex45/M4 by a huge Longshot, in what situation would the need for toughness of 3v/4v even surpass the advantage of hardness/wear resistance of the other mentioned steels?
As someone that's taken S30V XL's down to 10dps and chopped with them, experiencing zero edge damage....I have no clue :p
Pardoning your gross misuse (haha) from that information I'd assume CPM-M4 and Rex-45 would be much better candidates than 3v. Worst personal usage I can think of doing not on purpose is having to cut through ice/frozen meat or animal bone.

The problem with that statement is that you are assuming that all people value wear resistance over toughness. I don't have a need to cut 2000 pieces of cardboard and then shave my arm hairs, so wear resistance isn't the most important attribute of a knife for me. i would rather have a knife that can handle harder tasks without chipping and hit the occasional staple or nail or whatever on accident and not having to worry about how i am going to sharpen a chip out of an already difficult to sharpen steel. i don't mind frequent touchups on the sharpmaker or a steel or strop or whatever. if it is any indication I honestly don't even mind the low wear resistance of PE H1. I love it for its unique combination of stainlessness and toughness. ill happily touch it up when needed. I wish I could get H1 PE (and SE) salts in all of the Golden models I love.

I know Sal and team aren't here to make me custom knives, but there are plenty of people aside from me who want a 3V and 4V folder like a Military, Manix XL, Native, and Para 3. Some people need stainlessness, some want that insane wear resistance, some want easy to sharpen, some want a steel that can get sharp enough to whittle hair, some like a balance, some want toughness. There are enough steels and enough sprints to go around. If they make a 3V or 4V folder think of it as a blessing that your wallet doesn't get a beat down for that week and know that it is making some of us VERY happy. :D
I'd like a steel with those properties. Not even joking.

I consider wear resistance one of the least important properties in my knives, because pretty much every steel seems to do the same thing. They lose razor sharpness quick, then hold on to "working edges" at varying rates.

I couldn't care less about working edges because I don't carry knives with edges that dull. If they get that dull they get sharpened or switched out for a fresh knife.

If I tried a steel that held that top 5-10% of sharpness longer, instead of holding a working edge longer, I'd care a lot more about edge retention.

As it is, I'll also happily EDC PE H1.
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#26

Post by steelcity16 »

For sure. Don't get me wrong, I have a few S110V and Maxamet blades that are my dedicated cardboard cutters, but that's about all I use them for. I like H1 PE for EDC if I need stainlessness (pool, beach, food, etc) and Cruwear and the like for EDC if a need for stainlessness isn't a given for that day.
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#27

Post by Wanimator »

The point I was making was, something like m4 is plenty tough enough as it is with the advantage of more wear resistance. Not that I'd kick 3v out of bed for eating crackers.
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#28

Post by steelcity16 »

Wanimator wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:43 pm
The point I was making was, something like m4 is plenty tough enough as it is with the advantage of more wear resistance. Not that I'd kick 3v out of bed for eating crackers.

Watch the video from DBH here...M4 still isn't as tough as i would personally like at the edge. Again, i could personally care less about wear resistance. 3V has more than enough wear resistance for my typical usage. I understand that you would prefer more of a balance, but 3V would be something I would really like as an EDC in a Native, Native LW, Manix LW, or Para 3, and in a big folder like a Manix XL and Military. Eventually some dealer will get the hint and do a 3V exclusive and laugh all the way to the bank.

https://youtu.be/WOpu13O_OFE&t=6s
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#29

Post by Wanimator »

steelcity16 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:02 am
Wanimator wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:43 pm
The point I was making was, something like m4 is plenty tough enough as it is with the advantage of more wear resistance. Not that I'd kick 3v out of bed for eating crackers.

Watch the video from DBH here...M4 still isn't as tough as i would personally like at the edge. Again, i could personally care less about wear resistance. 3V has more than enough wear resistance for my typical usage. I understand that you would prefer more of a balance, but 3V would be something I would really like as an EDC in a Native, Native LW, Manix LW, or Para 3, and in a big folder like a Manix XL and Military. Eventually some dealer will get the hint and do a 3V exclusive and laugh all the way to the bank.

https://youtu.be/WOpu13O_OFE&t=6s
They really didn't do too horribly. What kind of usage warrants that much emphasis on toughness? What do you use your knives for? I'm interested in your perspective, neither of us are wrong.
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#30

Post by steelcity16 »

Everything. Opening packages, opening clamshell packaging, cutting zipties, carving, whittling, scraping, yardwork, landscaping, maintenance, house renovations, appliance repairs, vehicle repairs, food at restaurants, food at office, breaking down cardboard for recycling, etc. I'm not saying Rex45 can't handle it. I have a Rex45 Para 3 and I'm going to get the Rex45 Military. I also have an M4 Manix and Native, but I haven't carried either of those too much yet so not a whole lot of hard use. I would just like to see some 3V and 4V folders so I can test them all out and see what works best for my needs. I had Shun Classic kitchen knives that would chip if I sliced seeded bread as the seeds were hard enough to chip the thin brittle edges on the ultra hard steel. I switched to Henckels German knives and I steel them before every use and they work just fine for my needs as a home cook who does a ton of chopping, dicing, slicing, mincing, carving, etc., and they haven't chipped once and I haven't had to do a full sharpening once. I take that same philosophy to my folder knives. I don't need to cut 10K pieces of cardboard and I don't need to whittle hairs. I need a knife that can do what I ask of it and not complain. I have some steels like Cruwear, Rex45, and 52100 that seem to mostly fit the bill, but I want to add 3V and 4V to the mix and see what they can provide. People love these steels in fixed blades for uses other than batoning and stabbing car hoods, so who cares if you add a pivot and make it compact? We can't all carry fixed blades around all day.
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#31

Post by Pelagic »

steelcity16 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:34 am
Everything. Opening packages, opening clamshell packaging, cutting zipties, carving, whittling, scraping, yardwork, landscaping, maintenance, house renovations, appliance repairs, vehicle repairs, food at restaurants, food at office, breaking down cardboard for recycling, etc. I'm not saying Rex45 can't handle it. I have a Rex45 Para 3 and I'm going to get the Rex45 Military. I also have an M4 Manix and Native, but I haven't carried either of those too much yet so not a whole lot of hard use. I would just like to see some 3V and 4V folders so I can test them all out and see what works best for my needs. I had Shun Classic kitchen knives that would chip if I sliced seeded bread as the seeds were hard enough to chip the thin brittle edges on the ultra hard steel. I switched to Henckels German knives and I steel them before every use and they work just fine for my needs as a home cook who does a ton of chopping, dicing, slicing, mincing, carving, etc., and they haven't chipped once and I haven't had to do a full sharpening once. I take that same philosophy to my folder knives. I don't need to cut 10K pieces of cardboard and I don't need to whittle hairs. I need a knife that can do what I ask of it and not complain. I have some steels like Cruwear, Rex45, and 52100 that seem to mostly fit the bill, but I want to add 3V and 4V to the mix and see what they can provide. People love these steels in fixed blades for uses other than batoning and stabbing car hoods, so who cares if you add a pivot and make it compact? We can't all carry fixed blades around all day.
I hear you. Everyone links the desire for toughness as intended misuse of a folder. This outlook will never end and I've accepted it. I'm different though, in that I'm not perfect and occasionally make mistakes. I have to occasionally make HEAVY cuts with a good amount of force (although nothing a folder can't handle) in environments where the blade can make contact with hard surfaces following the cut. I REALLY like it when my blade doesn't chip when this happens. I'd much rather have the edge roll.

I carry s110v and 8cr13mov daily at work. I take extra care with one and let the other do the dirtier work. It works for now, but I'd like to eventually replace the 8cr13mov with a higher quality tougher steel.
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#32

Post by steelcity16 »

Here is a quote on another forum where someone was asking whether he should go with V4E or M390.

"If you would prefer the toughness, and a keener edge that can be touched up on a Butcher steel, and don't mind some patina go with the V4E."

I wasn't the OP, but this describes my desires in a steel pretty well. 52100 and Cruwear meet these desires for now, BUT V4E, 4V, and 3V would as well, and probably even more so depending mainly on the heat treats they decide to use. I think I saw where bodog said in a post somewhere he would take 3V over 52100 any day of the week. There have been a bunch of runs of 52100, so why not try 3V and see what transpires?

The Manix XL and Native haven't seen 52100 or Cruwear, so especially for something like that, why not try something similar but new like V4E/4V and 3V to fill in the gap of a lack of tool steels in these knives? I'm definitely not the only one who thinks this way and would buy these up like the world was ending.
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#33

Post by BravoTango »

steelcity16 wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:57 pm
I like your Manix 2 XL in 3V in your signature. This would be my first choice. Not nearly enough love for 3V on this forum. And if they are going to test the waters with a 3V model (Tuff doesn't count...too niche), the Manix 2 XL would be absolutely perfect.
Wanimator wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:50 pm
Or 4v... Honestly. Rex45/m4 and 3v/4v would probably be must buys. But I'd definitely prefer Rex45/M4 by a huge Longshot, in what situation would the need for toughness of 3v/4v even surpass the advantage of hardness/wear resistance of the other mentioned steels?
M4 would be my No. 1 pick for sure. Rex45 I can't speak on due to having no experience with it, my train of thought on 3v/4v is that, Spyderco has done extensive work with high abrasively resistant steels, it would be cool to see some very tough steels get some love.

I'd like Micarta used a bit more too, it gets ignored a lot, and is quite functional and stylish to boot.
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Wants: Manix 2 XL CPM-M4 or 4V, Compression Lock, Tip-up Military, Yojimbo 2 XL.
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#34

Post by Wanimator »

I'm not saying I wouldn't love the 4v. I'd eat it up. I'd be hyped for any of those options. I just love HAP-40 so much I'd want something close to it in that knife.

It will be really interesting to see if this ever gets made.
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#35

Post by steelcity16 »

Wanimator wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:27 am
I'm not saying I wouldn't love the 4v. I'd eat it up. I'd be hyped for any of those options. I just love HAP-40 so much I'd want something close to it in that knife.

It will be really interesting to see if this ever gets made.

And I with Rex45. i would buy a Rex45 Manix XL in a heartbeat. Especially if DLC coated. I just want to try some new tougher steels in these folders since I already have a number of blades in pretty much all of the other steels. M4, Rex45, Cruwear, 52100, etc. And if they decide to ever grace us with 3V, this knife is perfect as arguably the toughest golden made folder in production.
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#36

Post by vivi »

Pelagic wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:03 am
steelcity16 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:34 am
Everything. Opening packages, opening clamshell packaging, cutting zipties, carving, whittling, scraping, yardwork, landscaping, maintenance, house renovations, appliance repairs, vehicle repairs, food at restaurants, food at office, breaking down cardboard for recycling, etc. I'm not saying Rex45 can't handle it. I have a Rex45 Para 3 and I'm going to get the Rex45 Military. I also have an M4 Manix and Native, but I haven't carried either of those too much yet so not a whole lot of hard use. I would just like to see some 3V and 4V folders so I can test them all out and see what works best for my needs. I had Shun Classic kitchen knives that would chip if I sliced seeded bread as the seeds were hard enough to chip the thin brittle edges on the ultra hard steel. I switched to Henckels German knives and I steel them before every use and they work just fine for my needs as a home cook who does a ton of chopping, dicing, slicing, mincing, carving, etc., and they haven't chipped once and I haven't had to do a full sharpening once. I take that same philosophy to my folder knives. I don't need to cut 10K pieces of cardboard and I don't need to whittle hairs. I need a knife that can do what I ask of it and not complain. I have some steels like Cruwear, Rex45, and 52100 that seem to mostly fit the bill, but I want to add 3V and 4V to the mix and see what they can provide. People love these steels in fixed blades for uses other than batoning and stabbing car hoods, so who cares if you add a pivot and make it compact? We can't all carry fixed blades around all day.
I hear you. Everyone links the desire for toughness as intended misuse of a folder. This outlook will never end and I've accepted it. I'm different though, in that I'm not perfect and occasionally make mistakes. I have to occasionally make HEAVY cuts with a good amount of force (although nothing a folder can't handle) in environments where the blade can make contact with hard surfaces following the cut. I REALLY like it when my blade doesn't chip when this happens. I'd much rather have the edge roll.

I carry s110v and 8cr13mov daily at work. I take extra care with one and let the other do the dirtier work. It works for now, but I'd like to eventually replace the 8cr13mov with a higher quality tougher steel.
Have you considered an H1 beater? H1 is nearly as tough as it is corrosion resistant.
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#37

Post by steelcity16 »

Vivi wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:55 am


Have you considered an H1 beater? H1 is nearly as tough as it is corrosion resistant.

Yep, I love H1. I have a few Pacfic Salts, Salt 1s, Dfly Salts, and a Spyderhawk. I just prefer the Golden models as they feel stonger than the linerless Seki Salt models. Especially something like the Manix XL. I would take a Manix XL in H1 in a heartbeat. PE or SE. But since that is unlikely to happen, I voted for 3V, 4V, V4E, Cruwear, and Rex45 in the poll.
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#38

Post by Pelagic »

Vivi wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:55 am
Pelagic wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:03 am
steelcity16 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:34 am
Everything. Opening packages, opening clamshell packaging, cutting zipties, carving, whittling, scraping, yardwork, landscaping, maintenance, house renovations, appliance repairs, vehicle repairs, food at restaurants, food at office, breaking down cardboard for recycling, etc. I'm not saying Rex45 can't handle it. I have a Rex45 Para 3 and I'm going to get the Rex45 Military. I also have an M4 Manix and Native, but I haven't carried either of those too much yet so not a whole lot of hard use. I would just like to see some 3V and 4V folders so I can test them all out and see what works best for my needs. I had Shun Classic kitchen knives that would chip if I sliced seeded bread as the seeds were hard enough to chip the thin brittle edges on the ultra hard steel. I switched to Henckels German knives and I steel them before every use and they work just fine for my needs as a home cook who does a ton of chopping, dicing, slicing, mincing, carving, etc., and they haven't chipped once and I haven't had to do a full sharpening once. I take that same philosophy to my folder knives. I don't need to cut 10K pieces of cardboard and I don't need to whittle hairs. I need a knife that can do what I ask of it and not complain. I have some steels like Cruwear, Rex45, and 52100 that seem to mostly fit the bill, but I want to add 3V and 4V to the mix and see what they can provide. People love these steels in fixed blades for uses other than batoning and stabbing car hoods, so who cares if you add a pivot and make it compact? We can't all carry fixed blades around all day.
I hear you. Everyone links the desire for toughness as intended misuse of a folder. This outlook will never end and I've accepted it. I'm different though, in that I'm not perfect and occasionally make mistakes. I have to occasionally make HEAVY cuts with a good amount of force (although nothing a folder can't handle) in environments where the blade can make contact with hard surfaces following the cut. I REALLY like it when my blade doesn't chip when this happens. I'd much rather have the edge roll.

I carry s110v and 8cr13mov daily at work. I take extra care with one and let the other do the dirtier work. It works for now, but I'd like to eventually replace the 8cr13mov with a higher quality tougher steel.
Have you considered an H1 beater? H1 is nearly as tough as it is corrosion resistant.
Yes. Thinking about picking up a jumpmaster 1 on the secondary market one day when bills aren't wrecking my wallet.
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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#39

Post by ferider »

BravoTango wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:12 am
Or 4v... Honestly. Rex45/m4 and 3v/4v would probably be must buys. But I'd definitely prefer Rex45/M4 by a huge Longshot, in what situation would the need for toughness of 3v/4v even surpass the advantage of hardness/wear resistance of the other mentioned steels?
Actually CPM M4 (not M4) - at least on paper - is quite tough, comparable to Cru-Wear, for example. If somebody would want to trade his M4 Mule against my 4V Mule, I just might say yes :)

WRT toughness, even CPM-s90v is not so bad, so for the time being, I'm quite happy with my CF Manix XL. I had a hard time choosing between CPM M4 and M390 in the poll (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=81058), but finally I picked M390 since it would give me something I feel I don't have yet.

Roland.

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Re: Manix 2 XL in CPM-M4 or Rex-45

#40

Post by attila »

ferider wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:33 pm
BravoTango wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:12 am
Or 4v... Honestly. Rex45/m4 and 3v/4v would probably be must buys. But I'd definitely prefer Rex45/M4 by a huge Longshot, in what situation would the need for toughness of 3v/4v even surpass the advantage of hardness/wear resistance of the other mentioned steels?
Actually CPM M4 (not M4) - at least on paper - is quite tough, comparable to Cru-Wear, for example. If somebody would want to trade his M4 Mule against my 4V Mule, I just might say yes :)

WRT toughness, even CPM-s90v is not so bad, so for the time being, I'm quite happy with my CF Manix XL. I had a hard time choosing between CPM M4 and M390 in the poll (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=81058), but finally I picked M390 since it would give me something I feel I don't have yet.

Roland.

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One thing to keep in mind, Roland, is that that sounds like conventionally produced Cru-wear, not CPM Cru-wear. CPM Cru-wear should have better toughness than 3V above 60 HRC, and better toughness than 4V and CPM M4 overall.
Have: old S30V Native, HAP40 Endura, ZDP DF2, S110V Manix LW, Cru-wear Para 3, SE H1 DF2, S90V Native 5, K390 Urban, SE Pac Salt, P.I.T.S., XHP Manix LW, SB Caly 3, B70P, PMA11, K03, Kapara, REX 45 Military, 154CM Manix LW, Swick, AEB-L Urban, KC Cruwear Manix, M390 PM2, Mantra 2, CruCarta Shaman, M390 Manix, K390 Police 4, S90V Manix LW, Rex 45 Manix LW, 20CV Manix, Rex 45 Lil’Native, Shaman, C208GP, Cruwear Manix, Cruwear Manix, M4 Chief, Z-max!!!

Want: SPY27, K490, Swick 5
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