The OP’s argument, if such it can be termed, is basically the same as the clamor for shipped parts and a custom shop. They want what they want and criticize Spyderco for not providing it to them.
If G10 is superior to carbon fiber for knife scales: less costly, easier to work with, more stable and structurally superior, similar in weight, etc. why would I prefer CF? Because it is more costly?
If the same or equal functionality can be achieved by using less costly materials, that is a good thing. Except perhaps for those who value cost over everything else.
the basic argument is that anything other than using the “best” (a debatable notion), most costly materials is cost cutting which is a bad thing and short-changes the consumer.
The strawman well is getting pretty low, can you try drawing fewer arguments from it until it recovers?
Last edited by guywithopinion on Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Regardless of the rather contorted rationale and irrelevant examples offered by the OP and his supporters, the basic argument is that anything other than using the “best” (a debatable notion), most costly materials is cost cutting which is a bad thing and short-changes the consumer. This is also based on the mistaken idea that Spyderco’s so-called value system is somehow dependent on their competitors’ actions and values.
Fundamentally, one is free to define value as he sees fit but to call another’s values into question because theirs is different is both condescending and illuminating.
Fundamentally, one is free to define attitude as he sees fit, but to call another's opinion into question because theirs is different than your own, is both condisending and illuminating.
We're testing some now. Micarta moves depending on the humidity. We've had some problems with Micarta in the past. Depending on the results, we'll move or not.
sal
It moves very little With liners it should matter much? Love the feel of it and how it gets grippy when wet. I'm willing to be a guinea pig with a C22 for you Sal :D
It moves enough to be a problem (tolerances, holes, nested liners, etc.). I'm pushing for a Micarta Shaman at this time. We're machining some handles to test. We'll need some time to test. The problems have come up with Micarta machined in a high humidity environment and shipped to a dry environment. Colorado is dry enough that we can take two pieces of Micarta and put one in a container of water and find measurable difference in days.
It moves enough to be a problem (tolerances, holes, nested liners, etc.). I'm pushing for a Micarta Shaman at this time. We're machining some handles to test. We'll need some time to test. The problems have come up with Micarta machined in a high humidity environment and shipped to a dry environment. Colorado is dry enough that we can take two pieces of Micarta and put one in a container of water and find measurable difference in days.
How do you rate your area in humidity?
sal
I'm in the more or less high desert of southern California and carry a pocket knife, usually a military or pm2, every day on patrol. That normally includes hiking at least half a mile to maybe 2 miles most days and jumping around a bunch of rocks and climbing up and down the hills and mountains and getting sweaty because of the body armor and gear i carry. If you want to send something i can carry it for a month or so and send it back to you so you can examine how it held up. I have 0 problems with G10, but I'm sure that's not news. However you'd like to see it tested, i could try to force it in real life scenarios. Carry during the day, let it soak in water at night, then let it sit in the intense sun next to my cacti, then carry it again. If there could be extreme differences then carried on a sweaty person in low humidity environments, that would be it, i think. I think it'd be a harsh test for coloration issues/sun bleaching, too.
They who dance are thought mad by those who do not hear the music.
It moves enough to be a problem (tolerances, holes, nested liners, etc.). I'm pushing for a Micarta Shaman at this time. We're machining some handles to test. We'll need some time to test. The problems have come up with Micarta machined in a high humidity environment and shipped to a dry environment. Colorado is dry enough that we can take two pieces of Micarta and put one in a container of water and find measurable difference in days.
How do you rate your area in humidity?
sal
We have a test chamber in which we subject our product to a wide range of temperatures and humidity. For science, I would be happy to take one of those micarta Shaman's from you .
It moves enough to be a problem (tolerances, holes, nested liners, etc.). I'm pushing for a Micarta Shaman at this time. We're machining some handles to test. We'll need some time to test. The problems have come up with Micarta machined in a high humidity environment and shipped to a dry environment. Colorado is dry enough that we can take two pieces of Micarta and put one in a container of water and find measurable difference in days.
How do you rate your area in humidity?
sal
Pretty much medium down here, a bit higher at the coast and drier when we're up in the mountains. Haven't really noticed anything on any of my micarta knives ( :spyder: folders and custom fixed blades) regarding shrinking or swelling. The folders don't stay wet for days though, while the fixed blades sometimes are. I do see it on wood handled knives very clearly (especially on kitchen knives).
I can see the manufacturing issues so and even though I prefer nested liners there are quite a few of your models using full liners where swelling/shrinking isn't as big a problem? I know wood is stored at a fixed humidity before working on it to reduce the range of swelling/shrinking, maybe something for micarta as well?
With liners it should matter much? Love the feel of it and how it gets grippy when wet. I'm willing to be a guinea pig with a C22 for you Sal :D
