Sprint Runs and the Abysmal Aftermarket.

[Spyderman91]

Before we get into the rant let me just say I love Sal, Eric and all the good folks of Golden Colorado. Spyderco does so much for us enthusiasts, consumers, collectors and always showing their commitment to outstanding quality.

Now, with that said I always get excited for sprint runs. I am always fascinated with the new combinations of steel and materials that come out with each successful batch. However, one thing I've noticed (And this is not just with Spyderco but can be found in any market). That once these limited batches are sold out, they are held for ransom by some owners until an unfortunate soul actually pulls the trigger.

Usually the mark up isn't too bad right after the release, but the PARA 3 from River Edge which was a little under 150 dollars (From what I remember) can be seen on Ebay being bidded on for 270 dollars and counting. Now I know the whole point of a sprint run is to be limited, but it is a shame that these knives end up in the hands of those who do not appreciate the knife for what it is, and only see a chance to make profit.

How do you guys feel, do you just set away a chunk of money just in case a random sprint comes into your life that you must have, or do you
pass on release and suffer the wrath of the aftermarket? Before I really got into collecting / Spyderco as a company I always thought they just release a handful of sprints a year. After just monitoring the forums, and retailers for 6 months I have lost count of how many sprints were / are being released.

[blendergasket]

You can usually find preowned them cheaper on sites like Reddit's knife_swap.

[bearfacedkiller]

If I have the money and I want the knife I buy it. If I do not have the money then I don’t. If the price skyrockets afterwards then I live without it. I won’t pay inflated prices for any knife. There will always be more knives coming.

The Rivers Edge Knife was unique. I think they only made 500 of them. Those small runs can get out of hand.

In the end they are only knives. The truth is that at first it seems overwhelming keeping up with the sprints but after a while you have too many knives and the whole thing seems silly. I still enjoy buying them but I definitely don’t lose any sleep over it.

Desire is the root of suffering. The less you want, the happier you are.

[MichaelScott]

If I wanted a sprint knife and missed out on the initial sales and could only get one from a secondary source at a higher price I would be unhappy.

If I were the seller I would be happy.

On the other hand if the knife was a poor seller and I had to take a loss I would not be happy.

That is how free markets work.

[Naperville]

As I've noted before I don't get in to many Sprint Runs. If I don't have 2 to 4 weeks to put some cash together they're gone before I can do anything abt it. I have a list of knives that I buy from, and when the 3rd of the month rolls around, I buy a few. Beyond that I cannot get in on anything, and it's not that I don't buy a lot of knives. I have around 75 knives, never sell, and have at least $17,000 invested.

That is why I was begging for a Custom Shop where there may be "Sprint Runs" listed for 6 months and you can order at will. The way that Sprint Runs are currently set up, they reward people hawking the blades and people with a ton of disposable income. The reason why some of these people are selling is because they can make money on the knife and I'd rather pay it directly to the manufacturer or retailer. Never bought a knife off of anyone or through Ebay.

[MichaelScott]

A sprint run knife has value, more so than a production run, because there are a limited number of knives produced. There will be no more. If I have one of say 1200 knives that one will be intrinsically more valuable and unique than if I could order any combination of designs and materials whenever I wanted.

The problem is that some people miss out on a sprint that appeals to them. Being a sprint it becomes more valuable when the production run is done and it is discontinued. Some people want it anyway but feel taken advantaged of because the price has increased but they want to pay the original price.

I have paid more than the original price for a discontinued model because it is valuable to me now. It is worth an additional, say, 25% to me.

Because you missed out and won’t pay the now going price is no reason for everyone else to lose value in their knives so you can order a custom knife to make up for it.

Perhaps you should start a sprint run savings account so that you will have funds readily available when that sprint is released that you really want.

[RickC27]

Guilty as charged, but not necessarily guilty... I profited $125 on selling 2 of the Rex45 Para 3's. Wasn't even price gouging though, just received 10+ bids on each knife and people were willing to pay, what I considered some pretty outrageous prices (though I'm not complaining) Tough topic here, as some people have a lot of extra money to spend and think nothing of it. Some spend money they shouldn't, out of an addictive habit. Neither of those are at the fault of the seller.

[Tucson Tom]

You have to keep your wits about you. They are just knives and you can afford to let them pass. Like anything, set a limit and then get on with life if luck doesn't smile on you. I definitely do look down my nose at scalpers -- and that is exactly what they are -- but what can you do about it?

[bearfacedkiller]

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with making a profit selling a knife if the value has gone up. I definitely have but it has always been long after the run sold out. Rare or collectible things go up in value over time.

It becomes questionable when it is done immediately after the knife is released, especially if the knives were bought intentionally to make a profit. When someone has two for sale right after they came out it sure looks like they were purchased with the intent of flipping them for a quick profit. That is in my opinion a disservice to the knife community.

Look at it this way. If a run is 1200 knives and a bunch of people gobble up duplicates to flip and only, say, 900 of them ends up in the hands of people who were able to buy them for their original price then this effectively reduces the supply and drives up the demand/price.

I have actually seen the prices drop after the flipper’s were done flipping and folks moved their attention to the next sprint that they just have to get. I have snagged sprints at this point for what they originally sold for just a month or two after the flippers were gouging people.

If people didn’t pay the flippers prices then there wouldn’t be any incentive for them to do it and the economics of it all would be much more natural. Unfortunately there are enough people who get caught up in the fear of missing out. I watched people pay $80 over the MAP price of the REX45 sprints while they were still being distributed to dealers. What? Why?

[rgrad80]

I got my first Spyderco a few months ago as a gift...and now I have 22 of them! Some of my favorites are: blurpul PM2 and Para 3, Rex45 PM2, Jade PM2 and Para 3 with DLC M4, KW PM2 with M4 and carbon fiber, PM2 5200 carbon fiber, PM2 cruwear, Military 204 green exclusive, St.Nick’s Delica.

I can see how buying over 20 knives in a few months can seem kinda crazy, but you gotta remember...I just discovered my admiration for Spyderco recently and the knives they put out this year are truly special...in my opinion.

What I wouldn’t do is buy a knife at twice what it sold for originally...I just can’t do that as a matter of principle. I wanted the River’s Edge Para 3 very bad, it was just beautiful! I waited by the computer 15 minutes before the release and even called leaving a msg with my name and number explaining that the system crashed and I really wanted to purchase the knife. All that for nothing and the knife just kinda sold out. So I missed it. It happens, and that’s what makes the Sprints sooo cool. You get one or you don’t.

Paying some jack%*^+ 2x what the knife sold for originally, when they don’t even like or care about the knife is not going to be something I will ever do. I’ll just keep collecting and hope to snag a different Sprint down the road:)

I have no idea what Maxamat is, but you all like it soo much, I’m pretty sure I’ll need a PM2 Maxamat someday too.

[steelcity16]

I have no idea what Maxamat is, but you all like it soo much, I’m pretty sure I’ll need a PM2 Maxamat someday too.

Maxamet is legit. Cuts for days. If you don't have a Native LW yet I would suggest grabbing that in Maxamet to try. The Native LW is my favorite model.

[rgrad80]

I have no idea what Maxamat is, but you all like it soo much, I’m pretty sure I’ll need a PM2 Maxamat someday too.

Maxamet is legit. Cuts for days. If you don't have a Native LW yet I would suggest grabbing that in Maxamet to try. The Native LW is my favorite model.

Really? Well yea, I gotta check it out...already know you have goid taste in knives:) I don’t know much about the Native, but Google can fix that in a hurry.

[Extra330SC]

A sprint run knife has value, more so than a production run, because there are a limited number of knives produced. There will be no more. If I have one of say 1200 knives that one will be intrinsically more valuable and unique than if I could order any combination of designs and materials whenever I wanted.

The problem is that some people miss out on a sprint that appeals to them. Being a sprint it becomes more valuable when the production run is done and it is discontinued. Some people want it anyway but feel taken advantaged of because the price has increased but they want to pay the original price.

I have paid more than the original price for a discontinued model because it is valuable to me now. It is worth an additional, say, 25% to me.

Because you missed out and won’t pay the now going price is no reason for everyone else to lose value in their knives so you can order a custom knife to make up for it.

Perhaps you should start a sprint run savings account so that you will have funds readily available when that sprint is released that you really want.

Very well said!!

I ended up with extra REX 45s (PM2 and P3) for a couple different reasons. ..none intentional! I'm not looking to take advantage of anyone else or make money in my new hobby. So I contacted through PM people on the forums who stated they missed out and sold the knives to them at cost (even paid for postage ). Do I expect people to do the same or get mad at flippers...no! I've learned in my years that just because someone doesn't share my opinion or do it the way I would. ....that my way is right or morally superior!

James

[Tucson Tom]

If you don't have a Native LW yet I would suggest grabbing that in Maxamet to try. The Native LW is my favorite model.

Solid advice. I was hoping to get the PM2 in Maxamet because I just don't trust these FRN/FRCP lightweights. But I was keen to get Maxamet and find out what all the buzz was about. After a lot of head scratching I selected the Native 5 over the Manix LW. I think either would be a great choice, and I sometimes regret not getting the Maxamet Manix LW -- but you can't buy everything, or at least I can't.

This was my first knife that wasn't G10, and ya know -- it is much better than I thought. Since then I have picked up another plastic knife, the Pacific Salt, since so many people rave about it. I am being a little facetious. I do prefer G10, that is just my personal taste. The FRN lightweight is pretty amazing and gets my total thumbs up for sure. I need to own a Manix 2 lightweight someday.

But anyway, the little Native 5 in Maxamet is really a nice little package with that steel, highly recommended and a regular production knife.

And as for the scalpers, I thumb my nose at them. (just to get back on topic).

[LRR]

Gotta say, I don’t understand sprint marketing. I kind of get the limited quantities if it’s exclusive to one dealer, however why make such a limited number if it’s a general run for all dealers. If you can make 500, you can make 1000. There was a time that I stopped following Spyderco and walked away because of sprint runs.

[ABX2011]

Remember too that not all sprint runs sell out quickly. Some sit on dealers' shelves for years. Yes the PM2 and Para 3 are predictably in high demand so they can be targeted by flippers.

[ChrisinHove]

A good secondary market underpins the new market, which is important for higher cost items.

You always have the choice, whether or not to buy, and there will always be another sprint along soon.

[vivi]

You could always try my method. Develop obnoxiously particular taste, and fall in love with models that sell poorly so there's never any sprints on your radar.

[RickC27]

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with making a profit selling a knife if the value has gone up. I definitely have but it has always been long after the run sold out. Rare or collectible things go up in value over time.

It becomes questionable when it is done immediately after the knife is released, especially if the knives were bought intentionally to make a profit. When someone has two for sale right after they came out it sure looks like they were purchased with the intent of flipping them for a quick profit. That is in my opinion a disservice to the knife community.

Look at it this way. If a run is 1200 knives and a bunch of people gobble up duplicates to flip and only, say, 900 of them ends up in the hands of people who were able to buy them for their original price then this effectively reduces the supply and drives up the demand/price.

I have actually seen the prices drop after the flipper’s were done flipping and folks moved their attention to the next sprint that they just have to get. I have snagged sprints at this point for what they originally sold for just a month or two after the flippers were gouging people.

If people didn’t pay the flippers prices then there wouldn’t be any incentive for them to do it and the economics of it all would be much more natural. Unfortunately there are enough people who get caught up in the fear of missing out. I watched people pay $80 over the MAP price of the REX45 sprints while they were still being distributed to dealers. What? Why?

If this was in response to my post, I initially bought 2 because I wanted 1 as a user and 1 as a collector piece. I have a thing for orange, So I was pretty excited. Especially when I was going attempt to swap the scales and hardware with the DLC/M4 blade. I got into Spydercos early this year and saw I missed the chance at what I think would have been my absolute favorite knife...the Cutlery Shoppe PM2.

Then a couple weeks ago it was announced that they were distributing this knife in the Para 3 format. At that point, I knew THIS would be the knife for me. I like the CS orange scales better, and also prefer XHP as it's easier to sharpen and stainless.

I didn't want another 2 knives just sitting around collecting dust, so I threw them on Ebay for $10 more than I pruchasee them for to cover the eventual eBay invoicing fees. From there, they absolutely took off.

[Nate]

My collection is mostly made up of sprints and discontinued knives, but I've never paid a grossly inflated price for anything. I think the key is to just be ready if/when something you really want drops and to realize there are plenty of fish in the sea if you miss out and/or find yourself lusting after run that's long gone. Beyond that, my patience has been rewarded several times when good deals popped up on the secondary market. I can 2nd what BFK said about prices sometimes resetting after the initial wave of flipper-frenzy.

Also, I can't tell anyone else what to like/not like, but I agree with Vivi about the benefits of not totally locking in on the most popular models. Lately I've gotten more satisfaction out of trying off-the-radar models than I would have buying a 3rd, 4th, or 5th variant of knives I already own (though I'm not completely immune to that either :p ). Just saying if I'd been fixated on getting every new Para2 or Para 3, I might not have been able to pick up the Baby Horn sprint, the PITS, an old g10 Rookie, etc...