Spyderco M390 vs...

[Fixmeister]

I have a question about Spyderco’s M390 as compared to BM’s CPM 20CV. I have a Griptilian in 20CV and it’s a very nice steel. It sharpens nicely and polishes well, but somehow, I don’t feel like it holds an edge as well as my ZDP-189 and S110V Spydies. To me, it’s similar to S30V. I also have a Para 3 in M4 and a PM 2 in REX 45 but haven’t had either long enough to compare them to my other knives. The BBS Para 3 in M390 is a gorgeous knife and it’s on my short list, but I’m hoping that the edge holding is better, if only slightly, than what I’m seeing from my Griptilian.

Anyone out there have any experience in Spyderco’s M390 and BM’s 20CV to know if Spyderco is maybe wringing out a little more hardness from theirs? I know they are technically different steels but their composition is virtually identical so it seems like an apples to apples comparison... except for the heat treat and target hardness. Maybe I’m expecting too much from the 20CV. I use my knives at work for boxes and rope and things of that nature. It’s not bad, just not quite what I expected. Oh, and I use a Wicked Edge sharpener with stones, lapping film and strops down to .5 micron. They’re all seriously sharp. Thanks,

Tom

[Bill1170]

I can’t compare the two steels, but I did notice improved edge holding after several full sharpenings of my M390 PM2. I had to repair a chip, which removed enough steel to get me past the weaker metal at the factory edge.

[vivi]

Tom,

unpopular answer, but you might get better results with different sharpening methods vs a different steel.

try a lower grit edge finish on your benchmade. finish it no higher than the 600-800 grit ranfe, but sharpen it well enough you can shave your arm hair. That type of edge will last so much linger than a high polish, especially with these steels.

[Deadboxhero]

I have a question about Spyderco’s M390 as compared to BM’s CPM 20CV. I have a Griptilian in 20CV and it’s a very nice steel. It sharpens nicely and polishes well, but somehow, I don’t feel like it holds an edge as well as my ZDP-189 and S110V Spydies. To me, it’s similar to S30V. I also have a Para 3 in M4 and a PM 2 in REX 45 but haven’t had either long enough to compare them to my other knives. The BBS Para 3 in M390 is a gorgeous knife and it’s on my short list, but I’m hoping that the edge holding is better, if only slightly, than what I’m seeing from my Griptilian.

Anyone out there have any experience in Spyderco’s M390 and BM’s 20CV to know if Spyderco is maybe wringing out a little more hardness from theirs? I know they are technically different steels but their composition is virtually identical so it seems like an apples to apples comparison... except for the heat treat and target hardness. Maybe I’m expecting too much from the 20CV. I use my knives at work for boxes and rope and things of that nature. It’s not bad, just not quite what I expected. Oh, and I use a Wicked Edge sharpener with stones, lapping film and strops down to .5 micron. They’re all seriously sharp. Thanks,

Tom

Behind the edge thickness

[Tucson Tom]

I am thinking that ZDP-189 and S110V are in a whole different class than M390, 20CV, and S30V (which are sorta in the same class), so there shouldn't be any surprise there.

I have been curious a long time about CMP 20CV versus M390 -- of course the content of elements is the same, as is CTS204P. I have been itching to start a thread asking for comparisons between these 3 steels.

Has anyone else noticed that the 204 in CTS204P goes with the 20 percent chromium and the 4 percent vanadium?

Dragging S30V into all of this -- well, I'm not sure what to say about that. I don't think the M390 family is wildly superior, but I think they are _____ superior, you fill in the blank. kinda, sorta, somewhat, noticeably, mildly, .......

[JD Spydo]

There is no way I could compare my M390 Military to any model in S30V :confused: Because the M390 blade that I EDC has given me optimal performance over the past 2 years. I've even had significantly better results with M390 than I have with S90V.

My jury is still out comparing M390 to S110V because both of them are so good IMO. I find the S110V a bit more difficult to sharpen. But on the other hand I find the old 440V a bit harder to sharpen that either M390 or S110V.

It's going to take a really great blade steel to unseat my M390 Military. That steel really works well with that model IMO.

[Fixmeister]

Ok. Things to think about...

The BM has been resharpened twice so I’m thinking I’m past the potential factory sharpening heat treat edge.

I haven’t tried leaving the edge toothier. That’s worth a try. And are you recommending that even the ZDP & S110V could benefit from a less polished edge? It would be easy to drop on a micro-bevel at a couple of degrees wider than the @ 32 degrees they’re at now.

I agree the blade thickness behind the edge is certainly more than my FFG Spydercos. Very noticeable when cutting up lots of cardboard. The blade will actually heat up a bit from the friction. The Griptian will not slice like the FFGs but it’s still a decent cutter. I have the Spydiehole version and it does have a saber grind of sorts.

I’ll try the 800-1000 finish and see how that does. Thanks everyone.

Tom

[Tdog]

There is no way I could compare my M390 Military to any model in S30V :confused: Because the M390 blade that I EDC has given me optimal performance over the past 2 years. I've even had significantly better results with M390 than I have with S90V.

My jury is still out comparing M390 to S110V because both of them are so good IMO. I find the S110V a bit more difficult to sharpen. But on the other hand I find the old 440V a bit harder to sharpen that either M390 or S110V.

It's going to take a really great blade steel to unseat my M390 Military. That steel really works well with that model IMO.

I agree with this fully. There is something special about the M390 Millie. Gets sticky sharp with minimal effort and holds it's edge very well. Makes me wonder if the heat treat and/or metal itself on this one were "just right" While the stainless qualities on the S90V and S110V are very good, for me these take more time and patience to get the edge I want. Clearly the grinds and bte thickness also play a role in the knives performance. All good, just somewhat different.

[awa54]

Ok. Things to think about...

The BM has been resharpened twice so I’m thinking I’m past the potential factory sharpening heat treat edge.

I haven’t tried leaving the edge toothier. That’s worth a try. And are you recommending that even the ZDP & S110V could benefit from a less polished edge? It would be easy to drop on a micro-bevel at a couple of degrees wider than the @ 32 degrees they’re at now.

I agree the blade thickness behind the edge is certainly more than my FFG Spydercos. Very noticeable when cutting up lots of cardboard. The blade will actually heat up a bit from the friction. The Griptian will not slice like the FFGs but it’s still a decent cutter. I have the Spydiehole version and it does have a saber grind of sorts.

I’ll try the 800-1000 finish and see how that does. Thanks everyone.

Tom

Absolutely try the coarser edge on S110V! I can't comment for ZDP though, as I have always done it to high polish (which it seems to keep for longer than the softer high carbide stainless steels).

[Fixmeister]

I have been guilty of watching too many Michael Christy videos and have pursued the edges he gets. I couldn’t do that with my Tormek (they would still be silly sharp) but the Wicked Edge lets me get mirrored edges... so that’s what all my knives get. Maybe it’s not the best plan for a working edge and durability.

I would assume the heat treat on the Millie and the Para 3 would be similar so if the edge of a Millie gets sticky sharp, the Para 3 would as well.

[dj moonbat]

All this is good advice, but I do think Spyderco tends to harden its steels a little more than Benchmade. Whether that would make a difference in your day-to-day use I wouldn't know.

[Sharp Guy]

I have been guilty of watching too many Michael Christy videos and have pursued the edges he gets. I couldn’t do that with my Tormek (they would still be silly sharp) but the Wicked Edge lets me get mirrored edges... so that’s what all my knives get. Maybe it’s not the best plan for a working edge and durability.

I put a mirrored edge on all my knives now just because it looks nice. But afterward I microbevel on the Sharpmaker with the medium stones. I think it helps with burr removal and I end up with more of a working edge.

[Fixmeister]

It seems to me that my Spyderco Sage holds an edge longer than my Benchmade 940. Both are S30V steel so it led me to believe that my Spyderco was hardened a little bit more than the Benchmade. The reason for the post is that the BBS Para 3 in M390 might be a time sensitive purchase. I don’t expect those to last forever. And I just bought two new knives. I could probably get a bill through Congress to get it, but it would be pushing the envelope a little bit... if it’s really a must-have. As it is, I like 20CV but am not blown away by it.

[steelcity16]

I dont currently have any M390. Im considering the BBS Para 3. I really wish DLT would do their Red M390 in the Millie, Para 3, and Native. Maybe half of each run in DLC for good measure. :)

[Mstach07]

I have been guilty of watching too many Michael Christy videos and have pursued the edges he gets. I couldn’t do that with my Tormek (they would still be silly sharp) but the Wicked Edge lets me get mirrored edges... so that’s what all my knives get. Maybe it’s not the best plan for a working edge and durability.

I would assume the heat treat on the Millie and the Para 3 would be similar so if the edge of a Millie gets sticky sharp, the Para 3 would as well.

I’ve also chased that rabbit down the hole going for mirror polished edges. I soon realized that my cutting applications do better with a more coarse edge (800-1000 diamond) then strop from 4micron progression down to .5mu. Its become my preference moving forward with any knife, pocket or kitchen.

However, I sharpened a BNIB para 3 Rex 45 last night starting at 1200 ceramics and same strop routine as above. I was able to whittle hair in both directions. I am very pleased with the outcome. It also took a nice polished look while maintaining the toothy edge.

[vivi]

Mirror polished edges are fun to use when they're fresh, but after you break down some cardboard, they lose a lot of their slicing aggression. A 700 grit edge, once dulled, will still have little teeth that grip and tear what you're trying to cut. Highly polished edges tend to be too smooth to do that as effectively.

Fun comparison is to take edge type and dull them to the point they won't scrape arm hair, much less shave it. Then try to slice some ripe tomatos with each.

FWIW I notice a pretty big edge holding difference between CTS204P and S30V.

[Fixmeister]

Vivi... are both of the knive steels you mentioned on Spyderco knives?

[awa54]

In my use Spyderco M390 and 204P are easier to sharpen than S30V, XHP, S90V and especially ZDP, they also take and hold a polished/fully refined edge a bit better than S30V (or maybe it's just that I can get a better refined edge on M390 family steels in the first place?) Either way, it may not be a miracle steel, but I really think the balance of sharpening ease, taking good coarse *or* polished edges and having above average edge retention is what makes it one of my favorite stainless steels.

I have yet to give my BM enough pocket time to be certain how it stacks up, the comparison would, be hard anyway, considering how different a sheepsfoot Mini Grip is from the PM2 or Military!

[JD Spydo]

With the super success I've had with M390 I want to check out more Bohler Uddeholm steels. Oh don't get me wrong because I still love a lot of what Crucible and Carpenter have to offer but M390 is in a category all it's own IMO. I've used my M390 Military on some pretty mean jobs this past year and I've had no chipping what so ever. I can't say that about many of the Crucible steels that I also like.

I already know that XHP is a good steel for serrated edges and now I'm curious as to whether or not M390 might make a good steel for Spyderedges.