Trademark issue?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
rycen
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Trademark issue?

Postby rycen » Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:12 pm

It looks like the opening hole may not be perfectly round but is this ok?

http://www.manlyusa.com/product/manly-p ... esert-camo

fixall
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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby fixall » Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:47 pm

They're based out of Bulgaria. Good luck enforcing U.S. trademark laws in another country. The trademark would have to be filed in Bulgaria.

JD Spydo
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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby JD Spydo » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:32 pm

fixall wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:47 pm
They're based out of Bulgaria. Good luck enforcing U.S. trademark laws in another country. The trademark would have to be filed in Bulgaria.
And that's one of the many reasons I don't like trading with many of these 3rd World Countries that have no respect at all for other people's intellectual property rights and patent rights. Japan and other countries economically similar to them on the other hand seem to have considerably more respect for established intellectual property rights.

Now in the big picture I'm not without compassion for some of these poor countries that are trying to pull themselves up economically. However doing it illegally and immorally doesn't gain them any respect from those who did do it the legal and honest way with hard work and true innovation.

People like Sal and the Spyderco Company in general should have all the legal protection that our government can offer IMO. That's why we have the laws we have and an overall sense of order in the business world of the USA. But on the flip side of the coin I don't want to see US companies stealing intellectual property from those of other countries either that are poor with limited resources that can't defend themselves. We must have to have a level playing field with solid rules.

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bearfacedkiller
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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:38 pm

I have wanted to know the answer to this for quite a while now. I almost bought a Manly fixed blade but held off when I saw this. I would love to know if this is licensed or not.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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bearfacedkiller
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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:43 pm

fixall wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:47 pm
They're based out of Bulgaria. Good luck enforcing U.S. trademark laws in another country. The trademark would have to be filed in Bulgaria.
It is difficult to enforce in another country but I believe they are imported through a US distributor and I believe he is a member on bladeforums. You should be able to enforce it here in the US with the distributor if need be.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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knivesandbooks
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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby knivesandbooks » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:45 pm

Eh. Also, did anyone notice that it looks like it has a liner lock cutout but it's a backlock? Are my eyes just poor?

I want to have a strong opinion but I really don't. It is a small company from a distant country. It would be preferable if they didn't use the hole but at the same time they're not a real competitor. I'm against it but eh. There's a lot of other companies using in-licsensed opening holes (WE) that should rile people up more than this one.

FWIW, I owned their "Comrade" model which is a g10, drop point sodbuster-esque knife in d2 with a 4-stop slipjoint mechanism. It was quite nice for the price.
I own an assisted knife and am embarrassed to admit I enjoy it.

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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby TomAiello » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:51 pm

Bulgaria isn't really 3rd world anymore. I bet you could actually pursue a suit there, or at least with their US importer/distributor.

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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby TomAiello » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:52 pm

knivesandbooks wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:45 pm
Eh. Also, did anyone notice that it looks like it has a liner lock cutout but it's a backlock? Are my eyes just poor?
I think that's a ramp for accessing the hole more smoothly/quickly. Look at the photo of the knife when closed, and see what you think.

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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby knivesandbooks » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:57 pm

TomAiello wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:52 pm
knivesandbooks wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:45 pm
Eh. Also, did anyone notice that it looks like it has a liner lock cutout but it's a backlock? Are my eyes just poor?
I think that's a ramp for accessing the hole more smoothly/quickly. Look at the photo of the knife when closed, and see what you think.
Oh, I see it now. You're right.
I own an assisted knife and am embarrassed to admit I enjoy it.

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Woodpuppy
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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby Woodpuppy » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:05 pm

Is the hole a patented thing or a trademarked thing? IIRC patents run out after a while, but trademarks do not?
:spyder: My other blade is a Kelly Perfect :spyder:

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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby mattman » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:09 pm

Woodpuppy wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:05 pm
Is the hole a patented thing or a trademarked thing? IIRC patents run out after a while, but trademarks do not?
Was patented.
Now trademarked.

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sal
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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby sal » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:11 pm

The hole is trademarked. They are not licensed. We can enforce here in the US.

sal

FK
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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby FK » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:33 pm

"Is the hole a patented thing or a trademarked thing? IIRC patents run out after a while, but trademarks do not?"

In the USA a trademark lasts for 10 years then it can be renewed after every 10 years for the life of the product.

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The Deacon
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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby The Deacon » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:13 am

rycen wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:12 pm
It looks like the opening hole may not be perfectly round but is this ok?

http://www.manlyusa.com/product/manly-p ... esert-camo


As you noted, the hole does not appear to be round, so I don't see any trademark issue. Clip doesn't look like a Spyderco clip, the knife is not marked Spyderco, and the overall design doesn't mimic any Spyderco midlock I've ever seen, so I'm not sure what other grounds you'd have for questioning it for infringement. The cutouts in the G-10 scales look odd, probably because the camo is only in the surface layer, by may serve as finger grips or a device to make finding the hole to open the knife easier. OTOH, I have no idea if the blade steel is really CPM S90V.

Manly Hole.jpg
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emanuel
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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby emanuel » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:15 am

Doesn't the patent specifically says that it's a "circular hole used to open the blade"? If it's so, by making it oval, it's legal.

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The Deacon
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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby The Deacon » Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:34 am

emanuel wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:15 am
Doesn't the patent specifically says that it's a "circular hole used to open the blade"? If it's so, by making it oval, it's legal.

Spyderco's patent covered any "depression in the blade" that, when someone placed the ball of their thumb in it, could be used to open the knife with one hand. Even the C27 Jess Horn's trapezoid shaped depressions that do not go all the way through the blade met that definition. However, the patent expired long ago. My understanding is that Spyderco's trademark, until recently used on every Spyderco folder except the C27 Jess Horn only covers a round hole in the blade of a folding knife that is intended to be used as a one hand opener. They also have trademarked the "comma" shaped hole used on Byrd knives. Several other companies now offer knives with holes of various shapes other than round.
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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby StuntZombie » Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:41 am

The Deacon wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:13 am
rycen wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:12 pm
It looks like the opening hole may not be perfectly round but is this ok?

http://www.manlyusa.com/product/manly-p ... esert-camo


As you noted, the hole does not appear to be round, so I don't see any trademark issue. Clip doesn't look like a Spyderco clip, the knife is not marked Spyderco, and the overall design doesn't mimic any Spyderco midlock I've ever seen, so I'm not sure what other grounds you'd have for questioning it for infringement. The cutouts in the G-10 scales look odd, probably because the camo is only in the surface layer, by may serve as finger grips or a device to make finding the hole to open the knife easier. OTOH, I have no idea if the blade steel is really CPM S90V.


Manly Hole.jpg
https://nemoknivesreview.com/2018/01/15 ... r-at-work/

Looking at the pics in Nemo's review, the hole definitely looks round. I think it's the plunge grind in the product photos that makes it look at bit oblong.

It's an interesting design, one I've been tempted by. But their using of the round hole without licensing it put me off.
Chris

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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby MacLaren » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:09 am

I bought the Wasp model in 12c27?
At any rate, that model does not have the hole.
And more importantly Sal, they have a site here in the USA.
ManyUSA.
At any rate, talk about a straight razor, that little sucker was 8 behind the edge....
Hopefully, since they do business directly here in the U.S.A. Sal can get them to at least pay for the license

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tvenuto
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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby tvenuto » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:41 am

Their hole is a functional feature and thus can’t violate trademarks, which are by definition not functional.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functionality_doctrine

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Sharp Guy
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Re: Trademark issue?

Postby Sharp Guy » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:02 am

tvenuto wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:41 am
Their hole is a functional feature and thus can’t violate trademarks, which are by definition not functional.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functionality_doctrine
See Sal's comment above. Why would Spyderco bother to trademark their round hole if they can't enforce non-licensed use?
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