Nick's question of "why"?

[sal]

SSOOOoooo,

Nick did this video on the question of Why? The video is long, but you can tell he's passionate about his question. Jason posted it on another forum. Yes, I watched the whole thing, mostly because I have a lot of respect for Nick. I don't always agree with him, but I always try to see his point of view. I thought the question posed would make an interesting discussion?

We always ask ourselves the question when we introduce a new model. In fact we probably introduce more new models or variations than most knife companies.

With Collaboration designs?

With in-house designs?

With exclusives?

With variations, sprints, flash batches?

https://youtu.be/0i4raHD ... e=youtu.be

Whatdoyouthink?

sal

[guywithopinion]

I thought it was an interesting video. His videos about the knife world vs about a specific knife always make me feel like I'm out of the loop on something. So maybe he was addressing some specific company or releases that I'm unaware of. But I think sometimes throwing spaghetti against the wall to see what sticks is a valid approach. You can't always predict what will be useful. To some degree Spyderco's steel variations strike me that way. Some people will say, who needs x type of steel in a knife for y purpose. Maybe no one does, but there's one way to find out.

[knivesandbooks]

I definitely don't always agree with Nick, but on this one I definitely did. I think all designs, regardless of their merits, should propose an argument. "This is a problem, this is how I will address it, how I will address it differently than others, etc." Spyderco should also be thinking "why should we release this knife in our lineup? What will it do differently than others in our lineup?" I'm sure Spyderco does ask this question. Even as a knife afi, I ask "why should I buy this one, what will it do that another won't."

I think the biggest why for Spyderco should be about the sprints and exclusives. Asking why a sprint or exclusive or new variant should be made in this or that steel/handle. I think the decision to make the Chaparall in frn has a great "why" answer.

I've found Spyderco's in house designs to be the most on point for creating a well rounded and needs-based addressing lineup. The delica or chap for nearly perfect edc, but the native for a beefier small knife, for example.

The collaborations I don't always understand and sometimes they seem redundant to other knives in the line up. Then again, part of the reason to love this company is that it doesn't totally trim the fat. Even if the collab knife is in one way redundant to the rest of the line up, it usually offers something different in terms of flavor, POU, etc. It also gives a spotlight to great designers, many not yet well known.

Regardless, I do think Nick's argument is a useful and poignant one. It is also one of the oldest, Socratic really.
I'm glad this is something you consider, Sal.

[Tucson Tom]

Well, of course one answer to why is because it is what people want. People want new things, and a company that supplies them will get their business. I suppose this sounds base and crass, but it is certainly one way to boil it all down. I like to think that I chase after the "new" less than the average citizen. I am after all the guy who was championing old liquid fuel burning Coleman camp stoves not just a week ago. A proven classic.

But new things are fun. Variety is fun. Trying new things keeps life interesting. One thing I try to watch for as I get older is an unwillingness to try new things. I do get annoyed though when I go to buy something that I found to be good (to replace something lost or broken or to give to someone else) and find that whatever it is is no longer made, replaced by something not as good -- sometimes easier to manufacturer (and cheaper). I wrote a whole essay not long ago about looking for quality when shopping, not just for the lowest price. As often is true, balance is key. I am glad Spyderco continues with old classics that are proven winners (carefully refining them) along with trying bold new things -- and tossing in some things just for fun.

[Ric]

I also like the video and Nick's knife reviews ins general.
At Spyderco the "why" is not the issue, it's the "when" ;-)

I have no issue with Spyderco's line at all.
They do many variations which are useful for the knife community.
Different steels, colors, lightweight, XL, Lil, Salt, ergonomics are also great.
Everyone can pick his favorite model - and that's super.

I ask that why at other brands/models.
Often they failed to master the final touches, design concept and all you can do is ask WHY.
WE Knife Isham Eschaton: Design is cool, prize not but I might live with that.
Had it in hand and it was awful - the forefinger choil hurts extreme - WHY?!

At the end you can ask that also at many other things in life.
Perfection is not everybody's game and at the end its mostly about money.

But what do I know I am just a random jackass. :)

[ChrisinHove]

I think it is a combination of both the profound and the profane.

People at large like changing fashion and the “new” - or at least we appear to with our spending, and have done so ever since we had money to spend and things to buy. Maybe the choices on offer gives a semblance of control.

A fewer number of people are fascinated with the world around them and have the urge and ability to look at a problem anew, and think of ways it can solved differently, sometimes better, sometimes not.

Put them together, like we do, and that is a powerful combination.

They used to say that War drives innovation, and no doubt it does. But the last century, and particularly the last quarter, has shown that peaceful consumerism is pretty effective, too.

Of course, commercial innovators, like popular musicians, have to keep bringing new ideas to the table, regardless. Hubris prevents most of us from saying “Sorry, I only ever had one good idea, and that was it!”, and the fickle finger of fashion means consumer attention is short lived. Bringing items to market frequently sates the consumer demand for the new, maintains market ‘presence’, and allows new ideas to be trialled, whether ready or not, whether worthwhile or not.

[The Mastiff]

It was difficult to get through the video with the "Mort Goldman" voice and the constant fingers flitting in and out of the video. It could have been said in about 3 sentences too but to be honest he has a point. I used to look forward to going through the new knives at knifecenter and GP knives among others. Now it's endless streams of M390 flippers. The cost has gone up on many of these too and PRC now makes Titanium flippers for $180 on up and people seem to be buying them.

In the mean time we just lost another old favorite of mine, Queen Cutlery. No question the knives being built and marketed now are not designed and sold with me in mind. The high performing light(ish) one hand lockback knife at a decent price with premium steel is getting to be a relic for old guys like me.

Other than Spyderco knives ( sprints especially) I spend more money on E bay looking for nice minty old Schrade, Camillus, Western and now Queen NOS than I do looking at and buying Wicked Edge and the like. The next generation has come into it's own as the bigger part of the market and it seems they know what they want and it doesn't have to be made in the USA or Europe or Japan anymore. I also see they want eye perfect stuff rather than handmade products that might show the differences that that kind of craftsmanship showed. A generation that was raised with extruded plastic things with good fit rather than natural materials with the imperfections they have.

Joe

[Deadboxhero]

[Daveho]

I haven’t watched it yet but I’m sure I will.
I tend to see eye to eye with nick but I’ll say that it’s my belief that for the most part a lot of the “why” is for collectibility, nothing wrong with that.
They are just like pointy Pokémon.

[SG89]

I think everyone who reviews as many knives as he does would get frustrated and burnt out. I got into spyderco in 2015, and I have bought well over 100 models. Do I still have them? No. To me it's a constant pursuit of trying out both the new and old designs to find a knife that fits my needs. You start to question your own preferences and needs. Often I will buy a model that isn't my typical style just to see if it will change my mind. You get to a point of why. But a knife model that makes me say why? (Introvert) is another person's model that makes them say yay!

[T_MAC686]

16 releases in 19 months is very hard to keep up with

This is a post from a different thread, related to the amount of production/sprint/exclusive Para 3s that have been released. I don't have many complaints about Spyderco as a product or a company but this is one thing that makes me ask "Why?". Why is there a need for this many variations of a model (so quickly in succession) when there are other new models that have been announced, and that people are waiting for? Models that people have preordered, and seem to be taking a back seat to the flood of Para 3s in the last year and half. I understand that it is a popular model and is obviously selling, but even for the Para 3 collectors it seems like its getting to be too much. I'd like to see some of these new models, or even a sprint of an older model (JESTER) before another Para 3 variant.

[awa54]

[Brock O Lee]

I’ve been riding the sprint wave for the last 7 years, buying around 4-5 per year, and it’s been a lot of fun! At this point I have enough Spydercos to last me a lifetime. I feel I’ve tried most of the permutations that interest me. In fact, my Pelican cases have too many high performance safe queens that have not seen the light of day yet. It’s reassuring to have a few extras, but it’s also feels like waste.

As a result, the “chase after the next big thing” has lost it’s appeal during the last year, so I’ve stopped buying. I use and enjoy what I have a lot, but I am simply saturated, so to be honest, I agree with Nick.

[Evil D]

Very elaborate question with a very simple answer:

Makers don't ask WHY because consumers will BUY without ever asking themselves WHY.


Because people will buy based more on wants than needs, so makers produce to fill wants instead of needs. Why are there so many titanium frame lock flippers that are all made from the same basic recipe and all cost $400? Because people keep buying them and making review videos about them like they're doing something special that the last brand didn't.

This is not a maker problem, this is a consumer problem. These redundant products wouldn't exist without a buyer. The simple fact that Nick has 10 different knives laying in front of him that are all essentially the same thing and can more or less fill the same need is all the WHY you need. All it takes is one little variable, a new lock or steel or feature to grab our attention and we throw money at it so the little void inside us is filled for a moment. When the newness wears off we go looking for a new fix.

[RickC27]

double post

[RickC27]

Very elaborate question with a very simple answer:

Makers don't ask WHY because consumers will BUY without ever asking themselves WHY.


Because people will buy based more on wants than needs, so makers produce to fill wants instead of needs. Why are there so many titanium frame lock flippers that are all made from the same basic recipe and all cost $400? Because people keep buying them and making review videos about them like they're doing something special that the last brand didn't.

This is not a maker problem, this is a consumer problem. These redundant products wouldn't exist without a buyer. The simple fact that Nick has 10 different knives laying in front of him that are all essentially the same thing and can more or less fill the same need is all the WHY you need. All it takes is one little variable, a new lock or steel or feature to grab our attention and we throw money at it so the little void inside us is filled for a moment. When the newness wears off we go looking for a new fix.

Pretty much no further replies needed. Summed up perfectly right here. I sometimes stand there and look at my display stands with my 12 Spyderco's and think "man, I really do have a nice collection with a good variety" then maybe the next day I'll look at them and think " I really probably only need 2-3 of these, I have over $1,000 in knives I don't really need sitting here. Basically have a Caribbean cruise that my family would enjoy, just sitting on plastic stands in my work out room"

[curlyhairedboy]

Every time I'm hankering after a new knife, the first question I ask myself is this: What will this new one do any better than what I already have?

For me, I find the joy of a knife is in both how it looks and how it works. Aesthetics and performance going hand in hand. I'd actually like all of my knives a lot less if I never got to use them.

I've got a "why" for every knife in my collection. A lot of times the why is a modified why from another knife - why have the Spyderhawk H1 sprint AND the Dragonfly H1 Hawkbill? Well, the use case for the Spyderhawk is that it's made certain types of cutting much faster. The Hawkfly is the same use case, but in a much more compact and pocket-friendly package. I can keep it as a secondary in the coin pocket of my jeans. The Spyderhawk still has a justification, though - for yard work days, having a large handle and large blade that's easy to manipulate in gloves is super important!

The Shaman is quite an appealing and multifaceted "why" in my opinion. Here's how I view it:

- The compression lock is one of the sturdiest and easiest locks around
- The Spydiehole is one of the top opening methods around - it's fast, assured, doesn't block slicing performance, and can be used in gloves with no issues
- Most of the current knives that use both of these are high performance cutting tools and stay 'in their lane' in use. You'd never use a PM2 or Para 3 to twist or pry, for example. These blades are absolutely amazing at what they do.

The Shaman offers equal slicing performance and expanded use (beefier tip, thicker blade stock through the bulk of the blade, rounded handles for extended use) while sacrificing only a slight amount of pocket-friendliness.

But most importantly - this role wasn't filled by something in Spyderco's lineup already. There was a clear need that the Shaman fills handily.

The sprints that I've heard proposed - M390/CF and Cruwear/Micarta - build upon this reasoning and offer their own "why".

M390/CF offers well-balanced stainlessness/edge retention and a bit of bling, perfect for a user who wants to break down a ton of cardboard in style. I'd wager this "why" overlaps well with other PM2/Para 3 sprints, but leverages the Shaman's expanded use.

Cruwear/Micarta is for the bushcrafter/woodworker/outdoors folks whose cutting tasks involve impact, light chopping, and extended use in environments where edge toughness will be tested. This "why" is an exciting foray into areas previously only served by fixed blades.

I've rambled on for a bit, sorry...

[curlyhairedboy]

I think Nick hit it on the head when he mentioned Spyderco's steel variety in contrast with the s35vn/M390 that's seen on a lot of the '3 a day' releases.

You can EASILY tell with them that the design comes first, which may have varying degrees of comfort/aesthetics considerations, and only after that's finalized do they pick a price point - and only after THAT do they slot in a steel to match that price point.

I've heard Sal say something along the lines of "we design from the edge out". That's certainly a clear difference between Spyderco and some of the other manufacturers in today's market.

[Calicoast]

I have learned a long time ago, that no matter what you do, your not going to please everybody.

I agree that the "Why" is definitely consumer, and the consumer is going to do what they are going to do.
There is no stopping that.

But looking at both sides of the coin, and or the makers side, to me the "Why" is "Why" go down this never ending rabbit hole? Yes, you win some and you lose some, but at what expense?

We as consumers ponder this on a daily basis. Just like I have made some poor descisions, I think some of the descisions from the maker have been questionable. And I mean that with all due respect.

Couple examples: how many more Chicago's would you have sold if it was made in the USA? Was that really over a steel choice to go outside the USA? Nothing against collaborations, but how many Tropens are you going to sell? Not more than the Ikuche, but maybe I am wrong. I understand you want to meet price points with your consumers, but you have the byrd line, salt line, and higher end Spyderco's. I didn't start at high end.
+Still waiting on the Calypso Jr!?
Just my thoughts.
C

[ferider]

I like Nick. His best video is the one where he sits with his girlfriend and asks her for her opinion on individuals of a collection of knives. Quite funny.

But here, he is trying to rationalize something that is not rational. Let me explain like this:

I'm on a camera forum, and it's almost scary how members similarly talk about cameras and lenses as people talk about knives on knife fora. There is people (me included) with 50+ lenses, many in practice doing the same thing, exhaustive lens tests, arguments about minutia of lens and camera performance, etc., and occasionally, some old member jumps in and trolls by hollering "it's the photo you take, not the lens you take it with !". Sound familiar ? Note that I'm proud of my photography - but that is almost orthogonal to the gear that is being used.

Now, I EDC around a dozen of knives of a couple of brands, and I have about 3 dozen knives, and Spyderco is one of my favorites. For example, on last count, I EDC 5 different PM2, that all feel different for me, due to different scales and steel. I can tell blindly which PM2 is in my hand; when I use a knife, I am looking for a level of comfort, that can not really be measured in numbers. I also have some technically perfect knives that I simply don't like, not rationally, but they just don't "feel right".

Much of the market is made of customers like me. Served by highly competitive brands, and frankly, served by Nick's videos as well. Borderline OCD users, that are not just looking for a technically good knife, but for the one that "feels" perfect, and it's always the next one :)

On the bright side for this forum, most good knives are cheaper than most good lenses :) Also cheaper than motorcycles, cars or boats.

So there.

Roland.