Nick's question of "why"?

[shunsui]

Because we can.

This isn't a "why ?" or "why not ?" world, this is a "because we can" world.

[Woodpuppy]

Agreed on the instant gratification trend. Conversely, I have waited a year each for 3 different custom bows, and 14 months for a Shiloh 1874 rifle. If the juice is worth the squeeze I can wait. I’d guess most on his forum could too. And that would be the target audience of the custom shop.

[RamZar]

The Sprint Runs and Distributor/Dealer Exclusives with differences in handle materials/colors and/or steels are a very good and easy way for Spyderco and dealers to make extra money. Of course, it’s beneficial to collectors, flippers and those who want to try new steels. Some complain about the overabundance of such models specially if/when they hold back truly brand new models.

I’d like to see more new models where the Spydie Hole is purely decorative with the resultant slimmer/narrower folder. It’s a similar beef I have with Benchmade (Axis Lock) and ZT (Frame Lock Bearings Flippers).

Some of the Spyderco collaborations of the recent few years really beg the question of why? Most got discontinued in short order after one batch.

[markg]

If the "perfect song" has been written should we stop making music?

I watched half the video and it was getting a bit long for me, given the point. A folding knife is a relatively simple thing. Unless you have an innovation in materials or lock or clip... It is always going to be sort of the same. Some small manufactures can get away with small patches spaced widely apart (Emerson comes to mind) in which they can keep demand for the product pretty constant. A maker of any size is going to have to discontinue some knives and introduce new ones to stay in business. Collectors and enthusiast need a steady stream of new products to keep their interest, and if that is the case, is it wrong for a company to meet that need?

In the end, if you are as deep in the knife world as Nick is, there is a sense in which you can get jaded. I think that pretty much answers his why question. Why do they need to introduce knives? Because they have engineers and marketing, and sales, and production and shipping, and W&R people who need to feed their families. If not then be a small shop that puts out limited quantities that keeps demand high for for a small product line.

[Naperville]

The custom shop idea is nice, but I can see why they don't do it that way. From a manufacturing perspective it's easier to set everything up, and then knock them all out at once. With so many models, they'd probably need another factory just to handle all the custom orders. That's just my speculation, I could be wrong.

If you take a look just at Buck and Benchmade they are starting in to this form of sales slowly. They did not place their entire SKU in to their custom shops, at most it's 10 knives on Buck, and 5 knives on Benchmade. I don't know who made the first move... I think it was smaller manufacturers, offering different handles which is quite common now.

If Spyderco offered 5 knives this way, people would have a choice of up to 3 to 5 blade steels per model(SKU) and up to 10 different types of handles. I think both Buck and Benchmade also offer attributes such as colors of liners(2 to 3 options), color of hardware(2 options), engraving.

I think this is where the market is moving.

[Naperville]

The custom shop idea is nice, but I can see why they don't do it that way. From a manufacturing perspective it's easier to set everything up, and then knock them all out at once. With so many models, they'd probably need another factory just to handle all the custom orders. That's just my speculation, I could be wrong.

I like the idea too, but it seems like a very difficult thing to do given the variety in just the pm2, para3 and Delica lineups. Way more choices than other manufacturers. Would they offer new things or one off items? If you can dream they can build it? Talk about a rabbit hole...

Instead of offer a Sprint, Spyderco would just add the steel(SKU) to the web interface with a cost. People could order directly from Spyderco as they do Buck and Benchmade.

Order fulfillment is what I am after b/c I never get in on most Sprints and Specials. Spyderco could offer the steel for 6 months and then take it away, or they could see huge potential in the SKU and leave it up for good.

[vivi]

I'd absolutely love to see a Spyderco custom shop option. Take the five to ten best sellers and offer them in PE, SE, DLC, satin, base level steel, rust proof steel, and "look at how many cardboard boxes I can cut before you have to sharpen me" steel, and maybe different colored scales too.

[ladybug93]

i like nick, but i disagree with him on this one. the answer is clearly because they can and because people are buying them. every knife doesn’t have to be completely different from every other knife in order to be worthy of existing. there are plenty of people in this world and we’re all at least a little different. we all have different tastes. we all want different things. as long as people are buying, the real question is why would the knife companies stop? they have no reason to stop and ask why. they want money and people are giving it to them.

as an aside, it has to feel good to be the only company with more than one knife on the table and to make up half of them. also, multiple shout outs, to include ways spyderco is doing it right.

[Larry_Mott]

I think that if you, as a reviewer needs to ask yourself why am i doing this if i am jaded and tired of the endless stream of new offerings, you need to quit, or take a long break. What about movie and music reviewers? Or car magazine testers? The day they proclaim "Another 4-door Japanese made wagon with a 4-cylinder engine? Why, <insert manufacturer here>
I have a feeling Spyderco listens to the 'why' from the likes of Mr Phillips, Brouer and the likes PLUS put their own immense knowledge into new models.
As for the endless stream of exclusives, and to a lesser extent sprint runs, i have long since realized it's a lost battle to "Pokémon collect" that is, to get them all. Personally i think the exclusives game has gone so far as not even being fun anymore. I feel it is oversaturated. Mind you, that's *my* opinion and apparently/obviously i am in minority :)
I have a feeling that the whole exclusives game will sort itself, and hopefully the scalpers buying knives using their own, their wife's, brother's and second cousin's account to get 8-10 for the purpose of making a quick buck will fade away with it.
Sal - continue what you're doing! Why not indeed! :) Of course there's bound to be the odd dud every now and again, but that's probably inevitable.
(By dud i don't mean a bad product, only something the market wasnt ready for or your/Spydercos guess as to what people would love missed the mark.
All respect!

[Jazz]

All I know is there are way too many frame locking flippers in this world. I’m so tired of seeing them. I don’t like them. And same with the ubiquitous liner locks. Demand and supply, obviously. Enough already. Back locks work. They might be old fashioned, but they work.

I really like when I see companies with models they’ve been making forever. When things work, there’s no need to change, unless it’s CQI. A few new models are okay, but too many is overwhelming.

And Nick talks way too long in that vid. I couldn’t get through it all.

[gundamaniac]

I like seeing classic models too, but I see nothing wrong with linerlocks, framelocks, flippers etc. I think linerlocks and framelocks are popular because of their simplicity and versatility for different knife designs. Many folding knives have liners for strength and rigidity, why not just use one of those as the locking mechanism? Don't need to worry about a backspacer, backspring, and placement of the blade kick and lock release for safe one handed closing. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good backlock. I love my Native 5. I love a good self close on a well made backlock, and I love Spyderco choils for shaping the necessary blade kick on a backlock into usable space for my finger to rest on.

I think life would be dull if new models weren't introduced because the existing lineup is old fashioned and works and doesn't need to change. We'd probably all only be carrying 110s or traditional slippies. Variety is the spice of life; personal preferences and all that. Heck, if we had continued down that path of if it ain't broke don't fix it, then who knows, this discussion might very well instead have been a bunch of us griping about being bored of all the twohanded wood and brass handled backlock clip point knives that everyone keeps making. I'm glad that Spyderco offers such a large variety of models, enough to keep the classic things that just work and to also keep playing around with new ideas.

Edit: to address the original topic regarding why and boredom with the current knife market...I think Spyderco does a very good job nailing down why's for their models. I do get a bit bored looking at the lineups from other companies sometimes, but that has to do more with their design language than the materials and lock types used. There's only so many times I can be excited for a 3.5 inch generic general purpose saber ground drop/clip point blade attached to a generic general purpose non-grip-specific straight handle, especially if that description applies to almost all the models from a single company's catalog :p.

[Larry_Mott]

All I know is there are way too many frame locking flippers in this world. I’m so tired of seeing them. I don’t like them. And same with the ubiquitous liner locks. Demand and supply, obviously. Enough already. Back locks work. They might be old fashioned, but they work.

I really like when I see companies with models they’ve been making forever. When things work, there’s no need to change, unless it’s CQI. A few new models are okay, but too many is overwhelming.

And Nick talks way too long in that vid. I couldn’t get through it all.

100% agree! It has come to the point where a mouse grey framlock flipper doesn't even make me look closer/twice. HOPEFULLY that trend will die out soon.
I also can't listen to Nick's long windedness.. (that goes for many other YouTube self proclaimed gurus for that matter) BHQ's presentations are/should me the yardstick since the knife being reviewed never actually sees any use anyway.

[steelcity16]

i like nick, but i disagree with him on this one. the answer is clearly because they can and because people are buying them. every knife doesn’t have to be completely different from every other knife in order to be worthy of existing. there are plenty of people in this world and we’re all at least a little different. we all have different tastes. we all want different things. as long as people are buying, the real question is why would the knife companies stop? they have no reason to stop and ask why. they want money and people are giving it to them.

as an aside, it has to feel good to be the only company with more than one knife on the table and to make up half of them. also, multiple shout outs, to include ways spyderco is doing it right.

***warning...lots of rambling below...read at your own risk*** :confused:

Well said Jazz. I would just add thar they also need to come put with new knifea each year out of nessessity. Knives in general aren't consumables. Sure, if your job was "rope cutter", or a butcher, or whatever and you have to sharpen you knife many times through the day then eventually you'll remove enough steel to need to replace it. But I bet that accounts for less than a tenth of a percent of what Spyderco sells.

There are only so many new buyers entering the market each year, so they need previous customers to buy their second, third, or hundredth knife. A previous customer likely isnt going to buy a second PM2 in S30V, so there needs to be variety. It would be really interesting to see what percentage of Spydercos sold in 2018 are to first time buyers, customers who already own 1, own 2, own 30, own 100, etc. I would guess that a lot of the ones sold go to people like most of us here with at least a few Spydies already (including the ones that get routed through the hands of a flipper before ending up with a collector). If there were no new models, and no new steels in existing models we would eventually stop buying once we had the few we want.

I have purchased quite a few new 2018 models and I can think of 4 more that I am definitely going to get when they come out later this year. While I have sold or am going to sell 75% of what I bought, I have still purchased something like 100 Spydies in a very short time and ultimately have my collection narrowed down to about 20 keepers (and yes, they are ALL users, get carried, cut more than cardboard, etc) at this point. Aside from the 4 new ones that arent realeased yet, there are a few current ones I still want to try. After that, I think I'll be content with my collection. So in order to sell me more knives, they will need to release something new. For me, that would be more models in Cruwear, 3V, 4V, 52100, M4, Maxamet, LC200N, and Rex45, more Natives and Native LWs, and more Salts.

That probably seems like a lot, but I know there are tons of people out there and on this forum with a worse Spydie addiction than me. We probably account for a healthy chunk of their sales. So new knives need to be made to keep us coming back. Most of this could probably be accomplished via new Sprints/exclusives of existing models rather than brand new (especially Taiwan, collabs, etc) models, but i don't know if one is more profitable than the other so its hard to speculate. Maybe the Taiwan models are super profitable even with low volume being that they are typically very expensive but are, you know, made in Taiwan where you typically think of getting quality tools for a cheap price. Maybe these are all low volume high margin plays. Brings me back to my Managerial Cost Accounting days.

I also think that the new Cruwear Micarta Shaman is going to bring in a lot of first time buyers. I believe that this one is going to appeal to the outdoor fixed blade crowd who buy the Bark Rivers and LT Wrights with Micarta handles and 3V steel. If Spyderco did a folder with a 3V blade and Micarta handle that would probably bring in even more of this crowd. Then some of them get bitten by the Spydie bug and go on to buy 10, 20, 100, etc.

All of that said, I think Spyderco really gets the market and does a great job of bringing us new things to try. The Rex45 was a great surprise and seems to have been a huge hit for them. But, if they could have done a better job of predicting the monumental demand they could have released concurrent runs of 1,200 each in DLC and that still may not have met the demand. Maybe they can get another large batch of Rex45 and do DLC runs of the first three as well as some satin and DLC runs of the Native and Native LW while Rex45 is still the hot new steel. Any of these would get my money.

[tvenuto]

Available technology is moving. Use-cases are moving. Laws are moving. People’s tastes are moving. Your product offerings must respond or be left behind.

[dj moonbat]

There are plenty of Spyderco knives that come out and I say, "not for me." There are very few where I can't figure out what itch that knife exists to scratch.

[wrdwrght]

What do I think, Sal? I think Nick is not remotely talking about Spyderco.

By sketching out all that is not needed in knife-making, what Nick silently reveals is a knife-maker profile—into which Spyderco has no trouble fitting—that is wholly desirable.

I, for one, do not sense a bottoming out of my interest in your idea of knives, even if not every Spydie interests me.

[MichaelScott]

Available technology is moving. Use-cases are moving. Laws are moving. People’s tastes are moving. Your product offerings must respond or be left behind.

Well said.

[sal]

Hi Wrdwrght,

I think we were included in his "presentation", but I don't think it was only us. We probably offer more "new" than other companies, but I think his point of view was more general. He spoke of some companies only having 3 models and that was ok. If you look at the knife industry over the past 20 years, there have been a large amount of new companies and new models mostly because of the many newer Chinese makers. For someone like Nick that tries hard to stay on top of the "new" and "different" in the industry, it can be overwhelming, especially when much of it isn't "new & different". Just more of the same with a different brand or model name.

At any rate, it was an interesting observation that he made and I thought it was an interesting topic for the "inside" of the industry other than just the product.

sal

[Evil D]

Spyderco may put out a dozen models over a 2-3 year period that all have the same basic steel and handle materials and they may even be the same general size, and that may seem really redundant to some but there are always differences in ergonomics and aesthetics and I think that's important. It may be a surprise to some but not everyone is happy with a Para 2.

[ThePeacent]

while I do believe that there are too many "variations of the same" being released in short time for the last few years, Spyderco is one of the few companies that wouldn't enter that list in my opinion...
and even if they did eventually, they would be more than justified after all the innovations they have brought to the modern knife history... :rolleyes:

- first use of a pocket clip, later used by most if not all modern folder companies
- first OHO opening mechanism using a hole, copied by hundreds of others afterwards
- first use of most steels in a production setting, from ATS-55, to VG10, H1, M4, 52100, Cruwear, to German, Japanese, and US steels of all kinds
- first use of CPM technology in production knives
- first use of CATRA in-factory (one of the only 17 CATRA machines in the world at that time) for own product testing, and other parties' products too
- first custom maker-company collab knife to see production in the US, both folder (Terzuola) and fixed (Moran), to be followed by dozens of other collabs
- making serrated blades famous, widespread and good cutters
- arguably, bringing to success/fame the Reverse S blades, Hawkbill blades (Harpy), Wharncliffe blades in modern folders, the birth of the "tactical" knife out of the custom world, all of these copied endless time by others
- bringing FRN to the market as a folding knife handle material
- introducing the Boye dent on backlock production knives, and the "safety choil"
- creating bidirectional texturing on handles, later copied by Benchmade and many others
- introducing CQI in their knives (instead of discontinuing them and creating other models)
- constant communication and evolution thanks to customer input and CEO-fans relationship
- creating the CBBL lock, Powerlock, Compression lock and others, and giving credit to Walker for his liner and Reeve for his "frame" lock every time, unlike other companies
- the first company to make a line of "ethnic" designs
- first company to create a successful and long lasting Chinese made sub-brand with quality products, recognition, success and evolution (Byrd)


I probably left few out, but they have been the most innovative company in modern knife history, :cool: arguably the most honorable and well behaved too, and tell me...how many framelock flippers do they have now on their line? :p