Nick's question of "why"?

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FK
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Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby FK » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:26 pm

I personally cannot stomach Nick and his videos. My rant about Nick is off topic however, here goes.
He made a ridiculous attempt to disassemble a Delica and then making a second video while continuing to fumble and then declare the knife is almost useless due to very difficult design for cleaning. Many others made videos showing easy reassembly by inserting the lockbar last.
His moaning and complaining for 15 minutes over the clip design on the Para 3 was just over the top,,, remove the clip and replace it with aftermarket if it is just too difficult to accept.
He uses crap tools and has no skills when demonstrating disassembly of Spyderco knives. The video on how to disassembly and maintain a PM2 is laughable,, he babbles on about Red Loctite while working on a knife that did not have the Red Loctite when manufactured. It was an early issue S35VN. We also have a similar video on the Para 3,, we listen to him go on and on about the Red Loctite,,, why not instruct the viewers on how to approach disassembly of Red Loctite instead of whining about it?

I retired from the steel industry and enjoy the metallurgy aspect of blade steel and performance of a knife as a tool.
Hitachi owns 10% of our division in Tokyo, Japan and I had meetings with them on many occasions. We also had contact with most of the European specialty steel makers. Our offices in France worked with all of the steel mills in Europe.

The steel rolling mills my company designs are used for processing 90% of the alloys used by Spyderco and most of the other manufacturers of knives. We have over 250 rolling mills in operation and one is in the Smithsonian Museum in DC.

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FK
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vivi
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Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby vivi » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:52 pm

I've never given Nick or any other well known "knife reviewer" the time of day. They aren't reviewing knives. They're flicking them open and shut and discussion what design characteristics they think work well, but having not actually used the knife they can't say with any authority.

But they make money producing 30 minute long videos that never, ever show the factory beveled knife cutting anything, so more power to them I suppose.

Last time I tried using a popular knife reviewer it was a complete joke. I watched a 25 minute long nutnfancy video hoping to see the knife in hand to get perspective on the eegonomics. twenty five minutes and not once did he show it in a working grip.

Makes me wonder what the people watching these videos are after. Do they too sit around flicking their knives open and shut all day, pondering how well the knife would work should they ever decide to cut something with it? Is that why there's twenty pages of threads complaining about washers and pivot smoothness and flickability for every one that talks about thick edge bevels that cut poorly?

Some days I get sick of being in a small minority in an already niche hobby. I've come to feel like I'm looked at as the weird one for only buying knives I intend to immediately put to use.

RickC27

Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby RickC27 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:59 pm

^^Sadly there's a good number of them on this forum. Constant brand new knives, not a smidge of wear or scratches, then their sold and replaced with pics of some other knife for the same reason. All about the pictures for props on social media. Worst thing is, people ask them about a knife and they only have great things to say about it, even though they've never actually used it. So some person could take their word on a knife and go spend $130+ on it and it doesn't fit the niche they were actually looking for. Drives me crazy!

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Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby Redman5006 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:04 pm

Spyderco's innovative ideas and willingness to try new things are what brought me back to this hobby. Why does the Cheesecake Factory have so many types of cheesecake? Why are there so many tv options these days? Pick what you like and be happy.

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Spydergirl88
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Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby Spydergirl88 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:11 pm

Why does it always have to lead to attacking others? Who cares what other people do?
Sal Glesser wrote:
These are not leggos.

sal

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Ngati Pom
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Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby Ngati Pom » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:14 pm

Why? Consumerism, trying to build a better mousetrap, everybody else is doing it...etc.etc.
Many of the newer companies out there appear to me to be styling houses for knife shaped objects, using buzzwords in their advertising like Titanium, D2, Framelock and bearings. Which many of the buyers will use as a talking point and if that is what you are into all well and good.
For me it's because I want to have the best tool for a particular task. Something I believe some companies, like Spyderco, recognise and excel at.
Something I think we should make a distinction between is styling and design. I apologise, as this is my personal bugbear.
But I think this is where the difference lies between the outstanding and the bland.
I seem to have gone slightly off topic, sorry. :rolleyes:
'The future is already here;it's just not evenly distributed'
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Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:19 pm

Why are we commenting on Nick personally? Why are we criticizing knife reviewers in general? I don’t think that is what Sal was looking for.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby Daveho » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:30 pm

The idea of people who “use” their knives being more valid than those who are perceived to not “use” their knives is a bit erroneous, of these two groups who is going to buy more knives?
It’s evident in the product line expansion model used by spyderco says to me that it’s more of a collectables in a “tactical tool” wrapper.
With a knife like the Yojimbo with its intended use how many people are actually “Using” their knives?
No ones use of their knives is any more valid than anyone else’s.
While the above is a generalisation it’s worth noting that Nick brings a unique amount of experience handling knives that few can match.
Nick reviews the universal aspects of the knife not your specific use due to obvious limitations of his psychic ability-
Last edited by Daveho on Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:34 pm

RickC27 wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:59 pm
^^Sadly there's a good number of them on this forum. Constant brand new knives, not a smidge of wear or scratches, then their sold and replaced with pics of some other knife for the same reason. All about the pictures for props on social media. Worst thing is, people ask them about a knife and they only have great things to say about it, even though they've never actually used it. So some person could take their word on a knife and go spend $130+ on it and it doesn't fit the niche they were actually looking for. Drives me crazy!
Why is this sad? You have taken issue with this more than once. We are all into this hobby for different reasons. I agree about reviewers who don’t use their knives but that is different than forum members who are casual users and who like to buy and sell. Shouldn’t we be supportive of each other even if we come at it from different angles? It is a diverse hobby. Some folks like buying and selling and some folks enjoy participating in social media sites like Instagram. Spyderco makes knives to be collectible. They also make gents folders that are designed for light use like opening envelopes and trimming threads. They are not all hard users. Just like life, diversity is a good thing.

To stay on topic, Spyderco’s product line is clearly trying to support this diversity. That is why they offer so many variations. Nobody is dressing deer with a Nirvana. However, if they do I hope they take pictures. I like pictures. :)

Why is this thread struggling to stay on topic?
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

RickC27

Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby RickC27 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:51 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:34 pm
RickC27 wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:59 pm
^^Sadly there's a good number of them on this forum. Constant brand new knives, not a smidge of wear or scratches, then their sold and replaced with pics of some other knife for the same reason. All about the pictures for props on social media. Worst thing is, people ask them about a knife and they only have great things to say about it, even though they've never actually used it. So some person could take their word on a knife and go spend $130+ on it and it doesn't fit the niche they were actually looking for. Drives me crazy!
Why is this sad? You have taken issue with this more than once. We are all into this hobby for different reasons. I agree about reviewers who don’t use their knives but that is different than forum members who are casual users and who like to buy and sell. Shouldn’t we be supportive of each other even if we come at it from different angles? It is a diverse hobby. Some folks like buying and selling and some folks enjoy participating in social media sites like Instagram. Spyderco makes knives to be collectible. They also make gents folders that are designed for light use like opening envelopes and trimming threads. They are not all hard users. Just like life, diversity is a good thing.

To stay on topic, Spyderco’s product line is clearly trying to support this diversity. That is why they offer so many variations. Nobody is dressing deer with a Nirvana. However, if they do I hope they take pictures. I like pictures. :)
My gripe about the collector aspect of it, is when the collectors don't provide accurate information to someone that may be more novice to knives and finds Spyderco's attractive for one reason or another. They are interested in a particular knife and say someone that strictly collects, or quickly buys and sells without ever using the knife chimes in to the person that "this knife is awesome, it's so comfortable in hand, the blade just free falls, it's fun to play with and so easy to flick open with your thumb or middle finger" Yes, those are excellent perks of a knife...but if this person is looking at actually using it for say slicing ability and wants a small/medium knife, they would probably be better suited for a Delica, but the collector now has them all hyped up on a PM2 in S110V. Something like that is a bit overkill for a novice with no sharpening abilities, and a knife that costs double of a Delica. Sometimes the knife free falls because they have loosened the pivot so much that now there's a ton of blade play and centering issues and they pass it along to someone else. I'm not saying ANYBODY on this forum is guilty of that, but I've seen some dishonesty and examples kind of like what I just said above.

I'm not on Instagram but my wife is and I lurk around sometimes when I'm bored and see these kinds of things, especially on Youtube review videos! When I first got into Spyderco's I'd believe anything I heard and though I've never been steered wrong by anyone here, I've seen it many times in those situations and it makes me feel bad for the novice buyer. Not to mention it's a good chunk of money for a Spyderco, for the most part.

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sal
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Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby sal » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:56 pm

Hey Spydergirl, Darby.

Thanx much.

We can avoid personal attacks. Your kind understanding and cooperation is appreciated.

sal

RickC27

Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby RickC27 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:11 pm

Sal,

I wasn't attacking anybody personally. More so the broad group of collector/flippers that may misinform a novice or pass along a tinkered with knife. Though I suppose I did specify Nick earlier, but he is in that group I'm referring to.

I'm all for the new models and variations of steels/locks/scales. I'm on your side! Feed me more!

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Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby Daveho » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:24 pm

RickC27 wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:11 pm
Sal,

I wasn't attacking anybody personally. More so the broad group of collector/flippers that may misinform a novice or pass along a tinkered with knife. Though I suppose I did specify Nick earlier, but he is in that group I'm referring to.

I'm all for the new models and variations of steels/locks/scales. I'm on your side! Feed me more!
You are generalising, Nick has spoken out against returning knives to sellers that have been opened and has advocated for being as descriptive and informative with quality pictures when selling knives on the secondary market.
We all agree that misleading a buyer is not a good thing but no one here is advocating in favour of that.
The fact is that a collector of knives has a different but equally valid view point from the fictional “hard use” trade/woodsman who is the authority on cutlery.

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Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby BigGrove » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:27 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:34 pm
I agree about reviewers who don’t use their knives but that is different than forum members who are casual users and who like to buy and sell. Shouldn’t we be supportive of each other even if we come at it from different angles? It is a diverse hobby. Some folks like buying and selling and some folks enjoy participating in social media sites like Instagram. Spyderco makes knives to be collectible. They also make gents folders that are designed for light use like opening envelopes and trimming threads. They are not all hard users. Just like life, diversity is a good thing.

To stay on topic, Spyderco’s product line is clearly trying to support this diversity. That is why they offer so many variations. Nobody is dressing deer with a Nirvana. However, if they do I hope they take pictures. I like pictures. :)

Why is this thread struggling to stay on topic?
I don't understand why reviewers that don't use their knives are somehow different. Isn't their approach to the hobby just as much a part of the diversity as how anyone else chooses to enjoy it? If you're going to talk about diversity (which leads to inclusiveness) then practice what you preach. You don't have to like what someone says or does but that doesn't mean it's wrong, including reviewers who don't use their knives. There's enough room for everyone here.

Sticking with the diversity theme, I am excited at the growing number of offerings available to me as a consumer. We have current manufacturers experimenting with new materials, techniques, and designs. In addition there are new manufacturers pushing the envelope of design, fit, finish, and value. It's wonderful to have choices. Why they exist is of no interest to me, I'm just glad they do.

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sal
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Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby sal » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:38 pm

No Problem Rick.

Dave, you bring up a good point on users, your example of the Yo is a good one. I will say that knives are a unique field and there are many things that can occur only in the knife world. eg: One carry's a spare time and doesn't use it and hopes not to, but it doesn't take time or attention. One doesn't train with their spare tire. However, if one trains in Martial arts or Martial Blade craft, the model, such as he Yo, as a hobby is expanded.

sal

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Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby RamZar » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:45 pm

Undoubtedly, the knife world is awash with plenty of different takes on the same problem. Now, knife makers try to set themselves apart in various ways resulting in many impractical and odd designs.

Of course, the knife reviewing world is also awash with plenty of reviewers with different takes on the same knife. Many reviewers have a very subjective viewpoint and contradict themselves in the same review.
  • I welcome dialog, as long as it remains cordial, constructive and is conducted in a civilized manner. - Titanic: Blood & Steel
  • You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. - Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby Daveho » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:13 pm

sal wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:38 pm
No Problem Rick.

Dave, you bring up a good point on users, your example of the Yo is a good one. I will say that knives are a unique field and there are many things that can occur only in the knife world. eg: One carry's a spare time and doesn't use it and hopes not to, but it doesn't take time or attention. One doesn't train with their spare tire. However, if one trains in Martial arts or Martial Blade craft, the model, such as he Yo, as a hobby is expanded.

sal
Simply a case of different grinds for different kinds.

I’ll add to the discussion of reviewers not “using” their knives- id say it’s a case of them not “abusing” their knives in the few days they carry them to form the review.

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Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby CanaBrit » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:40 pm

Regardless of who made or reviewed the knife, the question seems to be why make a different/new one.
And I think Nick got it right, there are plenty of knives that will work (ish) perfectly fine, so to make something new it really has to:

1 Be unique/interesting
2 Be useful/ have a task in mind
3 Be extremely well made

4 And then there are the Forum people who want to try out new blade steels, and refine an existing favorite.

My own collection doesn't duplicate knifes, for example I don't have a Deilca, because I'm going for a Caly3 Sprint. Their both very similar, so I'll only own 1. Luckily Spyderco give me multiple choices in the 3" FFG slicing blade niche, and I get to pick what I like out of those.
Why should you make a new knife? I guess as long as you can make something of use, that is different enough for the customer to appreciate it, it should be made (as long as its done well).

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Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby Bloke » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:26 pm

RickC27 wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:51 pm
My gripe ...
Why have a gripe? :confused:

Do you honestly believe you are more of a knife user than other members here and there should be some hard and fast rules that determine what constitutes knife use?

What business is it of yours or mine as to what anyone uses there knife/knives for or what they say about them?

With regard to helping and advising novices on knife selection, sharpening etc. do you know of a better site that a novice like myself could attend and maybe learn a little? :)
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

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Re: Nick's question of "why"?

Postby Eli Chaps » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:27 pm

Well now hold on a second here... I don't know if any of the "attacking Nick" posts were directed at me, but if so, there's no moral "diversity" high ground to be had there.

It is, in my humble opinion entirely relevant to see a knife reviewer use their knife. No, not abuse, not even close. As I've said many times, these are folding pocket knives for crying out loud. But at least show me it in use. First, to me, it would be like watching a review of a food processor and the reviewer talks about how awesome the styling is, how quiet the motor is, the different buttons, but never really shows you how well it chops up food. If that's cool with you, great, but it isn't enough for me. Second, the entire premise of the video is relevant to the use of knives.

It is completely legitimate to critique and voice opinions about a prominent knife reviewer posting a video about his malaise around the saturation of new knife models, especially when asked for opinions by a knife maker. I didn't just come on here and start bashing Nick or his videos. I was asked for an opinion and I gave it.

In my mind, making money off of an industry that you compare and contrast against each other and push for innovations and new steels and materials and make absolute declarations and so on, that you then lament for 20min's about putting out too many ho-hum options is hypocrisy and for me, answers Sal's question of "Whatdoyouthink?" That's what I think.

Nick is largely viewed as an expert in the online knife community and has the power to influence, at least to some extent, the direction of the knife market. This is a role he voluntarily engages in and more power to him. I respect that. However, with that, you open yourself to critique. Just posting a video such as that being discussed is opening yourself to critique. And critique is what I provided and it was relevant to the discussion.

In the spirit of diversity, my opinions and thoughts are just as valid as those that Nick shares in his video. For the record, Nick and I have exchanged private messages in the past and while I don't expect him to remember me or anything I'm just saying that this is something he and I have discussed before. I can be gruff and blunt but I do respect that he puts himself out there.

Sal said he thought it would make for interesting discussion and I reckon it has.
Last edited by Eli Chaps on Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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