Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
MountainHawk
Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:37 pm

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby MountainHawk » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:15 pm

I'd like to thank everyone on this thread, especially Sharp Guy & cptdean. I purchased a new Chaparral Raffir Noble two days ago and was ready to pull the plug and send it back to Knife Center. The pivot was pretty stiff, but I knew I could fix that with some KPL and maybe some pivot screw adjustment. However, the stiffness of the back lock was awful and I was unsure how to fix it. Cptdean's pictures made me feel confident about opening the knife up.

Now I can actually start to enjoy this gorgeous knife (BTW - if you've not seen the Raffir Noble scales in person, it is hard to appreciate how cool they are). Moving the spring as far toward the pivot as I could without hitting the blade made this bear into a bunny. I also put a little KPL on the sides of the lock pawl that contact the frame liners. This won't ever be the blade dropping fidget machine my PM2 is, but this is a knife I intended to EDC in slacks for work. Nobody wants to see me fidgeting with my knife at work. I'll leave that burden to my family.

sn0wman72
Member
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:06 pm

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby sn0wman72 » Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:17 pm

Recently acquired a Chap in CF the lockbar was very stiff and uncomfortable to disengage. Dissembled the knife and slid the lockbar spring slightly forward (about 1/8"), fixed the problem.

Thx to Sharp Guy & cptdean for the fix!

User avatar
Sharp Guy
Member
Posts: 5910
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:19 pm
Location: Over here!

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby Sharp Guy » Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:51 pm

sn0wman72 wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:17 pm
Recently acquired a Chap in CF the lockbar was very stiff and uncomfortable to disengage. Dissembled the knife and slid the lockbar spring slightly forward (about 1/8"), fixed the problem.

Thx to Sharp Guy & cptdean for the fix!
Works great doesn't it
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

User avatar
MichaelScott
Member
Posts: 3008
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:42 am
Location: Southern Colorado

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby MichaelScott » Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:06 pm

I’ve done this to a couple of mine and it t works a treat. What I don’t understand is that after all this time why Spyderco doesn’t do a CQI and fix this easily fixed issue?
Overheard at the end of the ice age, “We’ve been having such unnatural weather.”

http://acehotel.blog

Team Innovation

Nate
Member
Posts: 1742
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:25 am
Location: Hurtling through space...

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby Nate » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:46 am

The lock bar on my Chap lw was very stiff out of the box, but after a break in period it basically feels ideal to me now.

I'm curious if anyone who has done the manual lock spring adjustment had it become too soft over time and ended up moving it back? Guess it's possible that mine "broke in" by slowly shifting itself forward over time somehow, but that seems a little unlikely and I've never opened it up to look.
:spyder:

Tgmr05
Member
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:54 pm

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby Tgmr05 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:32 am

Over time they tend to loosen up/break in. I was going to attempt the fix, but then I bought another one from a local shop that was the last one on display. It was much softer and easier to manipulate the backlock. The shop had not adjusted it, it was simply open and closed a lot. Some folks simply leave it partially open overnight or longer, which works as well.

I also started using the inside edge of my thumb below the nail around the edge of the first joint, instead of the end/tip to operate the bar. This really helped, and not just with the chaparral.

TomAiello
Member
Posts: 4535
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:34 pm
Location: Twin Falls, ID

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby TomAiello » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:49 am

I don't find my Chaps stiff at all. I have never felt the need to adjust them.

User avatar
Sharp Guy
Member
Posts: 5910
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:19 pm
Location: Over here!

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby Sharp Guy » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:52 am

Nate wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:46 am
The lock bar on my Chap lw was very stiff out of the box, but after a break in period it basically feels ideal to me now.

I'm curious if anyone who has done the manual lock spring adjustment had it become too soft over time and ended up moving it back? Guess it's possible that mine "broke in" by slowly shifting itself forward over time somehow, but that seems a little unlikely and I've never opened it up to look.
No noticeable change in either of my Chaps. Given the properties of spring steel I don't expect any change, at least not from the spring
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

User avatar
Sharp Guy
Member
Posts: 5910
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:19 pm
Location: Over here!

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby Sharp Guy » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:57 am

Tgmr05 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:32 am
....Some folks simply leave it partially open overnight or longer, which works as well.
Yeah this doesn't actually work. If it did then they're not using very good steel for the springs and they'd all be getting weaker over time. Eventually, people would be complaining the springs are too weak. People say leaving the blade half open will help loosen the spring on the Manix 2s as well. I left one open on my desk for several days. No change
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

Tgmr05
Member
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:54 pm

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby Tgmr05 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:29 am

Sharp Guy wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:57 am
Tgmr05 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:32 am
....Some folks simply leave it partially open overnight or longer, which works as well.
Yeah this doesn't actually work. If it did then they're not using very good steel for the springs and they'd all be getting weaker over time. Eventually, people would be complaining the springs are too weak. People say leaving the blade half open will help loosen the spring on the Manix 2s as well. I left one open on my desk for several days. No change
Springs need to break in or settle in, sometimes. If you have ever dealt with certain oem magazines for firearms, they are very stiff feeling and very difficult to fully load initially. After cycling a few times or being left loaded for a while, they become easier to fill to capacity. Someone much more knowledgeable than I can probably explain the specifics better than I could attempt, but it is a truth/reality in functioning.

The chaparral back lock is narrow and not contoured as much as wider locks. It has more focused points of contact which can be uncomfortable. I almost gave up on the chaparral, but after swapping point of contact on my thumb, and simply using it more, I could not be happier. I like the initial stiff spring, actually, as I pocket carry with no clip and do not want it to become loose enough for any surprise openings in the pocket.

ABX2011
Member
Posts: 1935
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:54 pm

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby ABX2011 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:50 am

I don't understand something different about the Chaparral. Why don't they offer it with more scale options? Like a traditional knife that comes in different bones and woods. The Chaparral has been out for several years and there still isn't a version that I really like. Doesn't seem like it should take years to offer it in a stabilized wood or a stable wood like african blackwood or rosewood. Or burlap micarta, or polished G-10...
The upcoming version is interesting but a bit polarizing I think. Not a fan.

JuPaul
Member
Posts: 3246
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:06 am

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby JuPaul » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:14 am

ABX2011 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:50 am
I don't understand something different about the Chaparral. Why don't they offer it with more scale options? Like a traditional knife that comes in different bones and woods. The Chaparral has been out for several years and there still isn't a version that I really like. Doesn't seem like it should take years to offer it in a stabilized wood or a stable wood like african blackwood or rosewood. Or burlap micarta, or polished G-10...
The upcoming version is interesting but a bit polarizing I think. Not a fan.
Yeah, the offerings to date haven't really been my thing, either. The raffir noble looks beautiful, but I'm not big on smooth scales on folders. The frn appealed to me most of them all, and I'm definitely interested in the sun and moon g10. But I agree, wooden scales (i love the look of ironwood, walnut, cocobolo) or micarta would be great so long as theyre not polished super slick. I'm sure a lot of people would like bone/horn, too, although I'm not one of them. ;)
- Julia

"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S. Preston, Esq.

User avatar
Sharp Guy
Member
Posts: 5910
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:19 pm
Location: Over here!

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby Sharp Guy » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:41 am

Tgmr05 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:29 am
Sharp Guy wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:57 am
Tgmr05 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:32 am
....Some folks simply leave it partially open overnight or longer, which works as well.
Yeah this doesn't actually work. If it did then they're not using very good steel for the springs and they'd all be getting weaker over time. Eventually, people would be complaining the springs are too weak. People say leaving the blade half open will help loosen the spring on the Manix 2s as well. I left one open on my desk for several days. No change
Springs need to break in or settle in, sometimes. If you have ever dealt with certain oem magazines for firearms, they are very stiff feeling and very difficult to fully load initially. After cycling a few times or being left loaded for a while, they become easier to fill to capacity. Someone much more knowledgeable than I can probably explain the specifics better than I could attempt, but it is a truth/reality in functioning.

The chaparral back lock is narrow and not contoured as much as wider locks. It has more focused points of contact which can be uncomfortable. I almost gave up on the chaparral, but after swapping point of contact on my thumb, and simply using it more, I could not be happier. I like the initial stiff spring, actually, as I pocket carry with no clip and do not want it to become loose enough for any surprise openings in the pocket.
Thanks but you're not telling me anything I've not already considered. I've been around firearms for 55+ years. Yes, springs can change through use over time, especially coil springs made of thin wire. It's not something that usually happens over night though. If it does they're not made of very good spring steel. I'm sure a lot has to do with the application too. The flat spring in the Chap is fairly stout and not likely to have a noticeable change through normal use (IMO). I had my CF Chap for several months and the thin lock bar continued to be difficult to depress. It was also a little gritty when opening. So I decided to open it to clean it up. By accident I didn't seat the lock spring all the way in the slot when I reassembled. I noticed a big difference in the tension on the lock bar. It's been that way for almost 4 years. There's still plenty of spring tension on the lock bar and I challenge anyone to try to shake the blade out. The coil springs in the CBBL locks on my Manix 2s are still strong even though some have been opened and closed many times. What's changed is me. I learned to hold the knife to make it easier to open. My fingers are probably a little tougher now too. Maybe I could've become used to the thin lock bar on the Chaps eventually but decided not to deal with it when I bought a Chap LW.
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

Nate
Member
Posts: 1742
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:25 am
Location: Hurtling through space...

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby Nate » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:28 pm

sal wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:08 am
...the lock release did seem hard to unlock and the edge was sharp, but I thought we softened the edges and we did find that the lock softened as it broke in.

sal
:spyder:

User avatar
MichaelScott
Member
Posts: 3008
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:42 am
Location: Southern Colorado

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby MichaelScott » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:01 pm

Nate wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:28 pm
sal wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:08 am
...the lock release did seem hard to unlock and the edge was sharp, but I thought we softened the edges and we did find that the lock softened as it broke in.”

sal
While the first is a CQI procedure, the second is wishful thinking. If you’ve seen the THICK spring and the right channel it lives in, you would think otherwise than Sal’s, “the lock softened as it broke in.”
Overheard at the end of the ice age, “We’ve been having such unnatural weather.”

http://acehotel.blog

Team Innovation

User avatar
SSD_777
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:54 pm

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby SSD_777 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:17 pm

MichaelScott wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:01 pm
Nate wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:28 pm
sal wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:08 am
...the lock release did seem hard to unlock and the edge was sharp, but I thought we softened the edges and we did find that the lock softened as it broke in.”

sal
While the first is a CQI procedure, the second is wishful thinking. If you’ve seen the THICK spring and the right channel it lives in, you would think otherwise than Sal’s, “the lock softened as it broke in.”
I would be willing to bet that Sal's statement is based on research performed in their lab. There's probably a machine that repetitively depresses the lockbar that also measures and records the pressure required to overcome the spring. I'm sure it softens over time. Everything wears out.

User avatar
MichaelScott
Member
Posts: 3008
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:42 am
Location: Southern Colorado

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby MichaelScott » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:07 pm

SSD_777 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:17 pm
MichaelScott wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:01 pm
Nate wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:28 pm
sal wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:08 am
...the lock release did seem hard to unlock and the edge was sharp, but I thought we softened the edges and we did find that the lock softened as it broke in.”

sal
While the first is a CQI procedure, the second is wishful thinking. If you’ve seen the THICK spring and the right channel it lives in, you would think otherwise than Sal’s, “the lock softened as it broke in.”
I would be willing to bet that Sal's statement is based on research performed in their lab. There's probably a machine that repetitively depresses the lockbar that also measures and records the pressure required to overcome the spring. I'm sure it softens over time. Everything wears out.
What constitutes “time” is the rub. I doubt if a human could stress that spring (really a thick steel bar) enough in a lifetime to wear it out, or in.
Overheard at the end of the ice age, “We’ve been having such unnatural weather.”

http://acehotel.blog

Team Innovation

JMM
Member
Posts: 870
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:39 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby JMM » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:10 pm

Sjucaveman wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:30 am
I like my raffir noble chap but my frn model the clip grooves were too shallow and the clip broke the frn so it no longer stays in place. I've also found xhp to not be rust resistant enough for my sweaty pockets.
I thought XHP was quite rust resistant based on my experience with a FRN Chaparral that very frequently was my secondary EDC for quite some time... but earlier this year I purchased a "new" G10 Manix2 w/XHP off the secondary market that was very much a used knife -- it had a bunch of rust starting on the thumb-ramp working it's way all the way down and around the pivot, and needless to say the liners were very rusted as well... I cleaned all of it up with bar keepers friend and wiped the liners down with a silicone gun cloth, put a dot of nano oil on each side of the pivot, and then wiped the blade down with a very thin coating of mineral oil (I treat all my tool steels the exact same way) and I have had zero issues since then...

TDLR: Treat XHP as a tool steel and it should give you zero troubles.

Cheers,

John

User avatar
SSD_777
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:54 pm

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby SSD_777 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:19 am

MichaelScott wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:07 pm
SSD_777 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:17 pm
MichaelScott wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:01 pm
Nate wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:28 pm
While the first is a CQI procedure, the second is wishful thinking. If you’ve seen the THICK spring and the right channel it lives in, you would think otherwise than Sal’s, “the lock softened as it broke in.”
I would be willing to bet that Sal's statement is based on research performed in their lab. There's probably a machine that repetitively depresses the lockbar that also measures and records the pressure required to overcome the spring. I'm sure it softens over time. Everything wears out.
What constitutes “time” is the rub. I doubt if a human could stress that spring (really a thick steel bar) enough in a lifetime to wear it out, or in.
The spring is exercised everytime the lock is disengaged, during the entire rotation of the blade opening process and it's also under constant pressure to keep the blade closed. It's going to weaken with everyday use.

Sumdumguy
Member
Posts: 3090
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:51 pm

Re: Something I do not understand about the Chaparral

Postby Sumdumguy » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:41 am

MichaelScott wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:07 pm
SSD_777 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:17 pm
MichaelScott wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:01 pm
Nate wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:28 pm
While the first is a CQI procedure, the second is wishful thinking. If you’ve seen the THICK spring and the right channel it lives in, you would think otherwise than Sal’s, “the lock softened as it broke in.”
I would be willing to bet that Sal's statement is based on research performed in their lab. There's probably a machine that repetitively depresses the lockbar that also measures and records the pressure required to overcome the spring. I'm sure it softens over time. Everything wears out.
What constitutes “time” is the rub. I doubt if a human could stress that spring (really a thick steel bar) enough in a lifetime to wear it out, or in.
It's called metal fatigue, Mike.

Repetitive bending force on a piece of metal causes it to weaken over time, due to the development of micro cracks.

You would probably never be able to actually fatigue it enough, under normal use, for it to actually seperate. But it will, most certainly, become weaker and easier to flex over time.

It has nothing to do with the lockbar rubbing on the spring. That's a different kind of wear.


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cambertree, Enactive, Ez556, Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], Signalman1, skeeg11, Spydergirl88, TenGrainBread, Wartstein, wolfstyle, yablanowitz and 34 guests