Your Delica 5

[StuntZombie]

Just take the liners out and I'll be happy.

The difference would be 0.4 oz.I doubt anyone would be able to tell just by holding the knife.

It's not about the weight. It's about simplifying the design even further. It's also about adding more rust resistance to the main line. Unless we're talking non-stainless blade steels, the liners are almost always the problem area as far as corrosion goes.

Also, make the Delica pointier again.

[tangent]

To me, the liners in the Delica don't add significant strength. I agree with the last post...just eliminate the liners from all Delicas. Simplify design and maintenance requirements. And it's lighter...

[navin johnson]

If the delica could have the new salt handle that is thicker without liners that would be cool.

FYI the new P3LW is the flat spined pointy tipped liner less deep carry wire clipped and choiled delica. (Thank goodness that way the delicata itself won't get ruined).

The P3LW makes me want a pointy tipped hollow ground linerless real delica also. (Much prefer the handle on the delica to the P3LW).

[spyderwolf]

Just take the liners out and I'll be happy.

The difference would be 0.4 oz.I doubt anyone would be able to tell just by holding the knife.

It's not about the weight. It's about simplifying the design even further. It's also about adding more rust resistance to the main line. Unless we're talking non-stainless blade steels, the liners are almost always the problem area as far as corrosion goes.

Also, make the Delica pointier again.

It would be a solution to a non-existing problem.If you want a linerless,rust proof Delica,the Pacific Salt is waiting for you.It would also be step back.The Delica was linerless.

[StuntZombie]

Just take the liners out and I'll be happy.

The difference would be 0.4 oz.I doubt anyone would be able to tell just by holding the knife.

It's not about the weight. It's about simplifying the design even further. It's also about adding more rust resistance to the main line. Unless we're talking non-stainless blade steels, the liners are almost always the problem area as far as corrosion goes.

Also, make the Delica pointier again.

It would be a solution to a non-existing problem.If you want a linerless,rust proof Delica,the Pacific Salt is waiting for you.It would also be step back.The Delica was linerless.

I understand that the Salt series is an option, but not everyone likes the blade shape of the Salt 2, or maybe they want a bit more performance than what is offered by H1. There's also the option to switch other blades into the Salt 2 handle, but if someone doesn't already own another Delica, that would require buying two knives to make one.

I'm mainly interested in eliminating the primary source of corrosion. I've found that even with rinsing and drying my Delica's as best I can, I still experienced rusting liners. Especially on the side covered by the scales. Water gets in there, and unless you have access to compressed air, it's very difficult to remove.

Regardless, it's not enough of an issue to keep me from buying more Delicas.

[cycleguy]

I really like the Delica 4 as it is and don't see how it can be changed for the better or broader market appeal ... let's face it no one knife is going to be perfect for everybody, but the Delica 4 seems to be perfect for me so I'm leaving it as it is.

Since I own a dozen or so ... here are some things I would like to see that would get me to purchase more: 1) I did replace the finished clip with an unfinished clip after year's of use and I prefer it so unfinished clip from the factory would be good, 2) current FRN colors have been around a very very long time so I would like to see some new and exciting FRN colors swapped in the line-up including tacticool like khaki and coyote brown and such, 3) I also liked the satin finish on the Kahr Arms models and would like to see the same finish on one of the many regular production models, 4) I would like to see one of the many models offered in a black coated plain edge blade, 5) I would like to see one of the many production models offered with G10 handles, 6) I also would like to see one of the models offered with the wire clip everyone is mentioning, 7) I would like to see Delica sprints that feature all the interesting steels like you see on the PM2 ... yes I know it is Japan and US so not likely!!! My favorite is the Damascu/Foalage Green FRN and I would enjoy seeing other Damascus/FRN sprints.

For those that don't find the Delica ergos working for them ... I am wondering how you grip/hold the knife??? I hold the knife mostly on the flat of my finger between the knuckle nearest the fingertip and the next one down ... the knife slightly angles across the flats with the front of the knife tight to the first knuckle and the rear of the knife tight to the second knuckle but on the side nearest the palm. There is no other way I can grip the knife and have the ergos work for me except a reverse grip. I use a light firm grip and don't find the need for applying more grip pressure for the size of the knife and the things that I use it to cut (mostly light duty slicing). However, I can apply more pressure and still find the ergos working.

CG

I try to hold it similar to how you describe but there is no where for my thumb to go that doesn't feel painful or awkward. The ergos work ok if I wrap my thumb around the handle but sometimee I prefer putting my thumb on the back for better control.

On a knife that works for me ergonomically, like the Police 4, there is maybe an inch or so between where my index finger goes and where my thumb extends to. On the Delica 4 there's only 1/10th an inch or so.

So I can try to use the thumb ramp and the base joint of my thumb is so cramped it's basically at a 90 degree angle. Or I can put it on the spine and it feels awkward because of the hump, and then my thumb alsp gets in the way of what I'm cutting.

One thing I've tried to do is to adjust my grip to give my thumb more space. Tilting the knife down and pushing it forward in my grip a bit. I've tried putting my thumb on first, positioning it on the thumb ramp so its comfortable, and only then wrapping my other fingers around the handle. But then I can't get the finger grooves to line up with my grip.

I suppose if I really wanted to try to make a Delica work for me I could only use it with my thumb wrapped around the handle, but after putting it on thumb ramps / blade spines for decades its a tough habit to break.

My thumb nestles in well if not perfectly to the ramp on the blade and the jimping on the FRN ... thumb is about 50/50 on each. I've heard a number of times from people that the Delica won't work for larger hands ... and they tend to prefer the Native or Para 3 or a knife that is a bit longer than the Delica size class.

CG

[Wartstein]

...
I've heard a number of times from people that the Delica won't work for larger hands ... and they tend to prefer the Native or Para 3 or a knife that is a bit longer than the Delica size class.

CG

I have L to XL hands, and for me it's exactly the other way round:

Delica:Very comfortable in hand

Native 5: Sold it, cause I did not like the ergos. I HAD to choke up on the choil to get a good four finger grip, the handle behind the choil was too short for that. I' d much rather have a Native without a choil, instead I'd like the whole length of the handle behind the guard being usable grip area. For the total length of the handle WOULD offer enough space for a good 4 finger grip if designed without a choil.
Plus, such a redesign would offer more cutting edge.

[pantagana23]

Just read this thread a bit.

Will we have the 5th iteration of the classic in the next few years?

A couple of things I would change on the existing:

- change from clip to wire, or a new one designed completely from scratch
- back of the handle closer to Delica 3 / Salt 1 / picture in this thread previously
- blade lengthened a bit (this handle length can take a couple of more mm and still be legal
- edge closer to Rock Jumper (really hoping this is a pilot project for new Delica
- new old handle traction design - don't know how you stand with this, but IMO Urban and UKPK have sleek gentlemans traction design while still being grippy enough

What say you Spyderco, is this bound to happen any time soon?

[SpyKers]

Updates are mostly mentioned already:
-Deep carry wire clip
-Move on from VG10 to S30V (Pushing $90 this needs to be considered IMHO)
-Pointy tip would be nice
-Change the lock to the ball bearing like the Manix

[kennethsime]

You know, I really do go back and forth on this.

In many ways, the current 4th-generation FFG Delica and Enduras are perfect. The only thing I'd ask for is a 50/50 choil.

Then again, I prefer the Stretch-style "swells" handle of the RockJumper to the "points" of the Delica. I think my ideal "Delica 5" would be a Rockjumper with a 50/50 choil. Or maybe a 3" Lil Stretch with a straight spine?

[Wartstein]

You know, I really do go back and forth on this.

In many ways, the current 4th-generation FFG Delica and Enduras are perfect. The only thing I'd ask for is a 50/50 choil.

Then again, I prefer the Stretch-style "swells" handle of the RockJumper to the "points" of the Delica. I think my ideal "Delica 5" would be a Rockjumper with a 50/50 choil. Or maybe a 3" Lil Stretch with a straight spine?

Now I just have to ask:

I totally get, that you (differently to me) prefer a choil over a Ricasso, especially for choking up on it!

But with a design like the Rock Jumper (neither a choil, nor a Ricasso) your hand is placed as close to the edge as it would be with a choil anyway! If a knife as small sized as the Rock Jumper would have a 50:50 choil, that would mean:
A lot less cutting edge, and you´d have to choke up on the choil to get a good four finger grip...
So:
- The Rock Jumper as it is gives you a full four finger grip, hand very close to the edge, and a lot of cutting edge
- A "choiled" Rock Jumper would force you to choke up on the choil, your hand would still not be closer to the edge, and you´d loose cutting edge...

Just my two cents of course! And I guess you´re right in that a Delica with a choil would still offer enough space on the actual handle behind the choil for most people (I don´t have to repeat here that I´d HATE to see a choil though on the Delica though... :p )

[kennethsime]

Now I just have to ask:

I totally get, that you (differently to me) prefer a choil over a Ricasso, especially for choking up on it!

But with a design like the Rock Jumper (neither a choil, nor a Ricasso) your hand is placed as close to the edge as it would be with a choil anyway! If a knife as small sized as the Rock Jumper would have a 50:50 choil, that would mean:
A lot less cutting edge, and you´d have to choke up on the choil to get a good four finger grip...
So:
- The Rock Jumper as it is gives you a full four finger grip, hand very close to the edge, and a lot of cutting edge
- A "choiled" Rock Jumper would force you to choke up on the choil, your hand would still not be closer to the edge, and you´d loose cutting edge...

Just my two cents of course! And I guess you´re right in that a Delica with a choil would still offer enough space on the actual handle behind the choil for most people (I don´t have to repeat here that I´d HATE to see a choil though on the Delica though... :p )

I think the big difference for me is simply that I prefer choking up on a choil, where you may prefer a hammer grip. I feel like being able to pull back on the rear side of the choil gives me more control for fine cutting tasks, which is most of what I do with folders. I don't mind being "forced" into the choil, because it's my favorite grip anyway. I also don't mind being "forced" to drive a manual transmission, or being "forced" to eat aged white cheddars, though I understand that dual-clutch transmissions with paddle shifters and smoked gouda each have their merits.

I hear the terms "actual handle" and "usable grip area" a lot on here lately. While I understand that some prefer knives without choils, I definitely disagree that the choil is not part of the "actual handle" or "usable grip area". Call it semantics, but I use the choil just fine.

I do feel like the Delica is really fine as is. Clearly the finest iteration of a classic model. It's just not very high on my list as it doesn't have a choil. Using the Meadowlark 2 as a guide, we'd only be giving up 4mm of cutting edge, which I'm ok with. Likewise, I understand the design considerations behind the Rock Jumper, and it looks like a smashing success. I may very well end up with one of the leaf blade versions once that comes out. But with a choil, a 3" "swell" knife would be much higher on my list.

[Wartstein]

I think the big difference for me is simply that I prefer choking up on a choil, where you may prefer a hammer grip. I feel like being able to pull back on the rear side of the choil gives me more control for fine cutting tasks, which is most of what I do with folders. .........

I hear the terms "actual handle" and "usable grip area" a lot on here lately. While I understand that some prefer knives without choils, I definitely disagree that the choil is not part of the "actual handle" or "usable grip area". Call it semantics, but I use the choil just fine.

.........

Thanks for your detailled reply! :)

The "being able to pull back on the rear side of the choil".thing is a very good point indeed and makes total sense!
Most people seem to focus on the "choil brings your hand closer to the edge"-thing, so I really did not think of your point. But yes, if a choil makes a small folder a basically "one grip knife" (choked up), BUT that "one grip" is perfect, that makes a lot of sense...

/ Whenever I mention "usable grip area" I HOPE I always add "behind the choil / on the actual handle"
For me the choil certainly BELONGS to the "usable grip area" generally, but technically not to the "actual handle" (as a technical term, since the blade part of the choil is, well, in the blade...)
But that gets a bit nitpicky, I know..

Anyway, let´s be glad that Spyderco offers a lot of great smaller folders both with and without a choil...:)

[kennethsime]

Thanks for your detailled reply! :)

The "being able to pull back on the rear side of the choil".thing is a very good point indeed and makes total sense!
Most people seem to focus on the "choil brings your hand closer to the edge"-thing, so I really did not think of your point. But yes, if a choil makes a small folder a basically "one grip knife" (choked up), BUT that "one grip" is perfect, that makes a lot of sense...

/ Whenever I mention "usable grip area" I HOPE I always add "behind the choil / on the actual handle"
For me the choil certainly BELONGS to the "usable grip area" generally, but technically not to the "actual handle" (as a technical term, since the blade part of the choil is, well, in the blade...)
But that gets a bit nitpicky, I know..

Anyway, let´s be glad that Spyderco offers a lot of great smaller folders both with and without a choil...:)

If your goal is to just get as close to the edge as possible I think the Rock Jumper makes the choil obsolete.

I too am glad we have so much variety. If the Caly 3.5 LW goes well and Spyderco comes out with a Caly 3 LW, I may give up my tirade on the choiled Delica. Maybe. :D

[pantagana23]

I hear the terms "actual handle" and "usable grip area" a lot on here lately. While I understand that some prefer knives without choils, I definitely disagree that the choil is not part of the "actual handle" or "usable grip area". Call it semantics, but I use the choil just fine.

We can all agree that the choil becomes part of the handle, but there lays the problem.

In a 3" blade knife, which makes more or less 50-60% of folding knives, it reduces your edge and makes the handle excessively long.

Why do you use the choil? My answer is because I want my hand as close to the edge when I'm using the knife, as it gives me both fine cutting and heavy cutting ability at the same time.

If a knife like Tenacious you have this ability without losing any of the usable edge.

This is becoming true with backlocks now with Rock Jumper.

Now is the time to ask yourslef - if you had a 3" knife with a handle getting your index finger as close to the edge as you have with a choil, would you still be asking for one?

[kennethsime]

Now is the time to ask yourslef - if you had a 3" knife with a handle getting your index finger as close to the edge as you have with a choil, would you still be asking for one?

I think so, but then I don't have a Rock Jumper yet. Looking forward to the leaf blade version, and maybe a bright, friendly FRN color. I think a blade not unlike the Tenacious would do very well in this handle.

For my uses, the 50/50 choil + thumb ramp, as present in knives like the Dragonfly, Stretch, and the Para Military family, offer unparalleled control between the thumb and forefinger. I do like other knives: the Native is nice, and the Manix is growing on me. But those knives are a bit less neutral for my hand; they encourage more of a rear grip, or a hammer grip: very locked in.

Knives like the Tenacious or Rock Jumper also offer a level of control of course, but I don't think it's the same thing.

Anyway, I understand that many people do not like choils, and that's fine. I saw it as an upgrade when they added a 50/50 choil to the Police in the 3rd generation, and I'd love to see a Delica/Endura option do the same at some point, because of the compact, lightweight package they offer. I'm not holding my breath; pretty sure that Sal has said it's not going to happen, and there are plenty of other Spydercos for me to buy.

[z4vdBt]

Better blade to handle ratio - like the Yojimbo. Get rid of the lanyard hole if you have to, it's not needed.