Dragonfly H1 Hawkbill for self defence

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Eli Chaps
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Re: Dragonfly H1 Hawkbill for self defence

Postby Eli Chaps » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:29 am

Evil D wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:24 am
Eli Chaps wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:05 am
Evil D wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:55 am
Just a random thought I had while browsing this thread....


How much training do you think the average knife attacker has? How many accounts of deadly knife attacks have you all seen in the news? Do you think those people had training or did they also get hurt in the process of attacking someone?

The element of surprise makes all the difference in the world, whether you're a bad guy attacker or a good guy in self defense.
It's a fair and valid point

I would also ask, of all those deadly knife attacks, how many of them were deep penetrating stab wounds?

No idea but I wouldn't write off the dangers of a slash wound, it's easy to bleed out in a stressful situation like that. All it takes is one good hit on a forearm and a severed vein and you're in trouble.
Understood but that's a looong time in a fight. An enraged person can do a lot of damage in 30-60 seconds.

You can hunt and kill a brown bear with a bow and arrow. But using an arrow for defense against an angry bear would be pretty low on the list.

I'm not saying don't carry a knife or that a knife can't be a viable self defense tool, but I do think far too many people have illusions of the effectiveness and implementation.

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Evil D
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Re: Dragonfly H1 Hawkbill for self defence

Postby Evil D » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:38 am

Eli Chaps wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:29 am
Evil D wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:24 am
Eli Chaps wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:05 am
Evil D wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:55 am
Just a random thought I had while browsing this thread....


How much training do you think the average knife attacker has? How many accounts of deadly knife attacks have you all seen in the news? Do you think those people had training or did they also get hurt in the process of attacking someone?

The element of surprise makes all the difference in the world, whether you're a bad guy attacker or a good guy in self defense.
It's a fair and valid point

I would also ask, of all those deadly knife attacks, how many of them were deep penetrating stab wounds?

No idea but I wouldn't write off the dangers of a slash wound, it's easy to bleed out in a stressful situation like that. All it takes is one good hit on a forearm and a severed vein and you're in trouble.
Understood but that's a looong time in a fight. An enraged person can do a lot of damage in 30-60 seconds.

You can hunt and kill a brown bear with a bow and arrow. But using an arrow for defense against an angry bear would be pretty low on the list.

I'm not saying don't carry a knife or that a knife can't be a viable self defense tool, but I do think far too many people have illusions of the effectiveness and implementation.
I think a lot of this falls under the "talisman" mentality where a person simply feels safer because they carry a tool to defend themselves with, be it a knife or gun or pepper spray. But, I don't think a person needs to be Michael Janich to have the ability to defend themselves with a knife (though it no doubt improves your chances). There's a reason most knife laws are stricter than gun laws, the police know all too well not to underestimate a knife attack. There is even a very good argument against the old "bringing a knife to a gun fight" saying, as there have been tests that show you need a good amount of space between you and a knife attacker to draw your gun and stop them before they're able to land several potentially deadly attacks on you.

I would post a picture of a supposed box knife attack in a prison, but of course that sort of thing isn't allowed here (nor probably wanted to be seen by most). Suffice to say the guy appears to have lived but the damage is absolutely terrifying.
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MichaelScott
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Re: Dragonfly H1 Hawkbill for self defence

Postby MichaelScott » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:43 am

Let me offer my two cents. I’m 75, use a walker or sometimes a wheelchair to get around. This makes me in some places, not very many at all, but still a vulnerable person. I have never trained with a knife, I have however trained with my 9 mm, and many, many years ago a bit of a hand to hand.

If I was under serious with someone then I would do whatever I could to stop it. I don’t think concentrating on “stab, stab, stab” would be a viable option. Except, under some circumstances. I think that if I had to resort to a knife regardless of where or what positions we might be in, my assailant and me, if I could cut anything — a wrist, forearm a bicep , leg, calf, butt, whatever, then I might stand a better chance of getting out of that confrontation alive.

Once, I had my karate instructor a black belt of many degrees was assaulted in a grocery store parking lot by a novice and as he told it he had a really hard time getting that stopped. Means all the training you have may not do you much good in certain circumstances.
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Evil D
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Re: Dragonfly H1 Hawkbill for self defence

Postby Evil D » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:19 am

MichaelScott wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:43 am

Once, I had my karate instructor a black belt of many degrees was assaulted in a grocery store parking lot by a novice and as he told it he had a really hard time getting that stopped. Means all the training you have may not do you much good in certain circumstances.

I have an uncle who spent about 15 years taking taekwondo, and was a black belt. A guy once attacked my mother and he was there to defend her, and of course proceeded to beat the guy half to death, but without using a single taekwondo move. We asked him later why and he said when it came down to really getting into a fight he went blank and reverted back to how he fought when he was younger defending himself in the streets.

There really is a lot that comes into play when these situations really happen, probably most important but least mentioned is a person's natural fight or flight mechanism.
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Calicoast
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Re: Dragonfly H1 Hawkbill for self defence

Postby Calicoast » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:55 am

Unfortunately, one might never know if and when they find themselves a victim of a knife attack and or self defense mode.

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/04/21/m ... teakhouse/

Been blessed with visiting some beautiful places, as well as visiting some rough areas on planet earth. I have personally inspected and sold thousands of houses on the south side of Chicago, to Memphis, Compton, Oakland, Etc. Neighborhoods where you don't go without a knife or a gun. With that said, I have been fortunate enough to not have anything occur, but account that to my street fico: brain + past experiences + skills in talking. (randoms on the street - including breaking and entering)

I have traveled through Central and South America quite a bit as well. The one place that I remember seeing a lot of knives were in Sao Paolo and Buenos Aires. In particular, after the bankruptcy in Argentina. I would usually stay in the city, and take radio taxis to visit some friends who lived outside the city, and then we would take the subways back into the city. It felt like everyone on the subway had a knife to me, and it was quite visual. I remember discussing this in detail with my friends, and their opinions about it being desperate times for many. The one thing that stuck out the most to me is how detailed they were about not being flashy, knowing the stops, knowing where the police were located, and not wanting to die in a subway.

Knife attacks are not pretty. Your best self defense is to use your brain + legs + arms to get out of the situation quickly. It can make a difference between life and death. If that doesnt work, wharncliffe would be my first choice for a self defense knife. As well as the practice of deploying quickly, and hitting on key parts.
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curlyhairedboy
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Re: Dragonfly H1 Hawkbill for self defence

Postby curlyhairedboy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:53 am

everything I've seen regarding real world footage of knife use seems to emphasize that your greatest advantage is distance. don't let someone get close, and your odds of survival go way up.

if you're within range and unaware, you could get stabbed 4+ times in under a second.

My admittedly rudimentary understanding of human biology leads me to believe that a knife, typically used, can cause instant damage that will soon prove fatal.....long after the outcome of the encounter is decided by surprise or initiative.

thus, my preferred hierarchy is:

1. Awareness (avoid situations turning bad)
2. Distance (if situation goes bad, run away)
3. Pepper spray (immediate unavoidable biological impact, while not maiming. best action post use - more running)
4. Pole or long stick, anything to keep you out of range
5. A well practiced side kick (delivers a lot of force to create more distance, especially when trained)

if all of that is no longer feasible, then I'd consider a knife.
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MichaelScott
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Re: Dragonfly H1 Hawkbill for self defence

Postby MichaelScott » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:35 am

curlyhairedboy wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:53 am
everything I've seen regarding real world footage of knife use seems to emphasize that your greatest advantage is distance. don't let someone get close, and your odds of survival go way up.

if you're within range and unaware, you could get stabbed 4+ times in under a second.

My admittedly rudimentary understanding of human biology leads me to believe that a knife, typically used, can cause instant damage that will soon prove fatal.....long after the outcome of the encounter is decided by surprise or initiative.

thus, my preferred hierarchy is:

1. Awareness (avoid situations turning bad)
2. Distance (if situation goes bad, run away)
3. Pepper spray (immediate unavoidable biological impact, while not maiming. best action post use - more running)
4. Pole or long stick, anything to keep you out of range
5. A well practiced side kick (delivers a lot of force to create more distance, especially when trained)

if all of that is no longer feasible, then I'd consider a knife.
#1 is the only thing that would work for me and other disabled folks. If I can't get to my 9 mm soon enough that is.
What doesn’t kill you will make you stronger. Except infantry. Infantry will kill you.

“Gentlemen, bring out your men.” — T. J. Jackson, Second Manassas, 1862

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Studey
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Re: Dragonfly H1 Hawkbill for self defence

Postby Studey » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:02 am

Evil D wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:38 am
There's a reason most knife laws are stricter than gun laws, the police know all too well not to underestimate a knife attack.

Knife laws are not, in general, more restrictive than gun laws.

The idea that “police know how dangerous knives can be, therefore knives are more heavily regulated” is equally preposterous.


I don’t disagree with the point about knives. They’re exceptionally dangerous, but the statement above regarding knife laws versus gun laws is inaccurate.

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Evil D
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Re: Dragonfly H1 Hawkbill for self defence

Postby Evil D » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:28 am

Studey wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:02 am
Evil D wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:38 am
There's a reason most knife laws are stricter than gun laws, the police know all too well not to underestimate a knife attack.

Knife laws are not, in general, more restrictive than gun laws.

The idea that “police know how dangerous knives can be, therefore knives are more heavily regulated” is equally preposterous.


I don’t disagree with the point about knives. They’re exceptionally dangerous, but the statement above regarding knife laws versus gun laws is inaccurate.

Well, every city around me has knife length laws, while at the same time I can open carry as I please. Maybe not everywhere is like that.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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spambait11
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Re: Dragonfly H1 Hawkbill for self defence

Postby spambait11 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:36 am

To both answer your question and validate your point, see news for "BART train neck stabbing," which happened a couple days ago. NOBODY would have been able to predict this. Poor women!
Evil D wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:55 am
Just a random thought I had while browsing this thread....


How much training do you think the average knife attacker has? How many accounts of deadly knife attacks have you all seen in the news? Do you think those people had training or did they also get hurt in the process of attacking someone?

The element of surprise makes all the difference in the world, whether you're a bad guy attacker or a good guy in self defense.

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Calicoast
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Re: Dragonfly H1 Hawkbill for self defence

Postby Calicoast » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:44 am

^ It's like that in California too.

Gun Laws:
https://www.gunstocarry.com/gun-laws-st ... -gun-laws/

Knife Laws:
I would have to go into each cities website, because they override county length laws.
Mostly 3″ knifes within city limits, with some being less: 2.5 for Los Angeles.

C

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michaelm466
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Re: Dragonfly H1 Hawkbill for self defence

Postby michaelm466 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:56 pm

tragique wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:14 am
What's most likely to happen in most situations where people try to use knives for self defense is your opponent takes it away from you, and now they have a knife. Without actual training and practice, no knife is going to help you in a fight. Your best weapon is a pair of good running shoes in nearly every case.
Of course, once they have it, they have a high percentage chance that it will be taken away from them- I don't understand this reasoning, having a knife is a hindrance in a fight? So you should keep a knife on you so you can throw it to your attacker and they'll be so distracted by trying to open and attack you with it, by the time they get it open you can take it away and use it on them.

Knives aren't rope darts or nunchuks that are difficult to use, and somebody untrained is just as likely to knock themselves out with it as the attacker. I, being above average in size and training would rather fight somebody average size with no training with no knife, than the same person without the knife. Sure, I know some disarms, but they're still difficult, and I'll probably still get cut a few times attempting them, and just like a untrained person can get a lucky punch in a fight and knock out a veteran, they can get a lucky cut and hit your brachial artery.

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Evil D
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Re: Dragonfly H1 Hawkbill for self defence

Postby Evil D » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:21 pm

Basically if you have the knife, there's a good chance you'll lose it. It's like the opposite of keep away ;)
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: Dragonfly H1 Hawkbill for self defence

Postby ladybug93 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:39 pm

Evil D wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:21 pm
Basically if you have the knife, there's a good chance you'll lose it. It's like the opposite of keep away ;)
well, it depends on how small a fruit you can cut with it.

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Re: Dragonfly H1 Hawkbill for self defence

Postby Art_vandeley » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:05 pm

I have argued a lot that even the hawkbill Ladybug is a great SD knife, so I`d say go for it.


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