Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

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Deadboxhero
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Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby Deadboxhero » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:58 pm

Well, thought I'd do a follow-up on the double stuff 2 after about 1 year from purchase and after sharpening over 200 knives with it.

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At first I felt it was insanely aggressive, too aggressive for finishing out the scratches on the white stone. Also I experienced CBN (Cubic Boron Nitride) lose due to using heavy pressure when Sharpening. Can't help it sometimes Because I'm usually using this stone to fix my friends and co-workers knives improptu or on the fly and only have about 2-5 min to fix some NASTY big chips or missing tips.

The RAW aggression of the CBN side out of box cut like a 140 grit atoma
it was INSANE, it's mellowed out to a 400ish grit in cutting speed after 50 or so Knives

I'll say to get the most out of this stone it Should be used with very very light pressure, if one need faster cutting they should just increase the amount of passes and speed but NOT pressure. It seems to work two fold in that it keeps the abrasive grains from penatrating deep into the bevel making very DEEP scratches and also gives the abrasive more longevity and less tear out.

I learned that from Sal at the knife show when showed him the tear out on the stone, he nicely told me I had been using too much pressure. :D

Of course I would have liked to see a bonded stone that is CBN abrasive all the way through rather then nickel plated to metal that's not likely to happen due to extreme cost. (It would be $150-$200 per pocket stone with special bonding and that much CBN)

CBN is quite expensive, from my experience it actually costs slightly more then diamond in some cases.

While it's puzzling to some that CBN which is less hard (4500 knoop hardness) is used over Diamond ( 7000 knoop hardness) Sal had mentioned that there may an advantage in less tear out due to the hardness of CBN being more compatible with the plate bonding, Konstantin from Gritomatic argues it's less chemically reactive then diamond on steel even without using power equipment. Conversely Jon from Japanese knife imports has said he experienced more aggression when using diamonds.

What's the verdict? Its difficult to find the difference without ALOT of controlled testing. In reality it's marginal.
Like most things it's the sum of ALL parts rather then a single component.

Getting back to the stone I'd say I definitely got my $45 worth out of it.

If it superior to the double stuff 1?

Yes

I'll get to why later.

-Shawn
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wrdwrght
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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby wrdwrght » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:44 am

I’ve been leery of getting the Double Stuff 2 because I understand the CBN is actually a coating, like the diamonds on my SM triangles, rather than a solid.

I only use my diamond triangles rarely, for reprofiling, but would use the CBN side of the DS2 often, like I do the brown side of my handy DS1. I fear the CBN grit will go the way of the grit on my DMTs and simply begin to disappear...

Your review suggests I have some reason to worry, unless I use only the lightest pressure. Am I reading you correctly?

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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby Deadboxhero » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:22 am

wrdwrght wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:44 am
I’ve been leery of getting the Double Stuff 2 because I understand the CBN is actually a coating, like the diamonds on my SM triangles, rather than a solid.

I only use my diamond triangles rarely, for reprofiling, but would use the CBN side of the DS2 often, like I do the brown side of my handy DS1. I fear the CBN grit will go the way of the grit on my DMTs and simply begin to disappear...

Your review suggests I have some reason to worry, unless I use only the lightest pressure. Am I reading you correctly?
Nothing lasts forever but yeah light pressure keeps them on the plate longer.

I'd say the DB2 is higher quality then the DMT stuff in my experience in longevity and cutting speed

I haven't been a big fan of DMT products for longevity but the price is good and they're better then eze-lap stuff

The problem with being a solid is no one can afford it
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JD Spydo
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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby JD Spydo » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:25 am

I've been putting it off to cover some other medical bills I've been blitzed with here in the past two months but next month I'm going to make it a point to get maybe even a couple of the DOUBLESTUFF 2 sharpeners from New Graham or one of the other dealers. Spyderco is without a doubt the KING of portable sharpening tools and I can't wait to see what else is coming down the pipeline. When is that GAUNTLET system ever going to be available????? :confused: :confused: That's another one I've just got to have.

Oh one other item we need to talk about>> we need the return of the 701 Profiles and in a bigger grit selection this time around too. Those 701 Profiles are still my favorite tool to sharpen my Spyderedges with. But I can't wait to try out this DOUBLESTUFF 2 on a Spyderedge just to see what it can do in the field.

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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:12 am

I still need one of these too. Part of me wishes it was cbn/brown but without playing with one I won’t pass judgement.

Do you think that a CBN/medium would be better than CBN/fine? I often carry a DMT credit card sharpener with my Doublestuff1 and rarely use the fine side of the DS.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
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sal
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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby sal » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:47 am

Thanx Shawn.

The DB ST 2 was a couple of years in the making. I had to study the CBN, they make decisions on the shape, then see if we could make the stone in ceramic, etc. Light pressure is best, It doesn't cut faster if you press harder. It can only cut the depth of the rock, which is pretty easy with light pressure.

Hi Darby. I thought about the medium stone quite a bit, but finally settled on the fine for a few reasons:

1) The medium stone cuts best when the surface is cracked, but then wear is faster. I felt that faster cutting was not as important because of the presence of the CBN.

2) The stone will be used as a general abrasive for more than just sharpening. (eg: I use it as a nail file, deburring, etc.) and the fine stone offered a refinement not as easy to get with the medium stone.

3) The fine stone will likely never were out in a lifetime.

When I travel, I carry a Golden Stone, a diamond "Duckfoot" (soon to be a CBN to go with the Golden stone), a DB ST 2 and the stand to sharpen at 30 degrees.

sal

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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby Ruudr » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:00 pm

Nice review. Thanks

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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:26 pm

Thank you for the explanation Sal.

My favorite travel combo is actually a medium stone I scored at the seconds sale and a DMT medium credit card sharpener. The medium stone is about 4 inches long and a little over an inch wide. It has a groove for pointy things and two different radii on the edges. It is super handy.

I do not believe that you ever sold this stone but I have often wondered what it was. Was it a prototype? I wish I had purchased a handful of them.

Image

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-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby mattman » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:47 pm

In to see what Darby's got there...

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sal
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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby sal » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:25 pm

Hi Darby,

The downside, (as I mentioned in the DB ST 2 thread) or the medium stone is wear. We consider it a "utility" stone that will be replaced in time. In an expensive stone like different radii and grooves, + slow sales, it may not be good investment or large quantities, which we have to make. We've made some for the dental industry in the past.

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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby rodloos » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:50 pm

Deadboxhero, you've got a lot more experience with your DoubleStuff2 than I do with mine. I've just had mine a few weeks. I also have a couple of the original DoubleStuffs, kept one in each vehicle. I think the Texas summer heat it a little hard on them though, one of mine came apart (the glue seems to have failed) and my DS2 now looks like it is separating. That doesn't prevent them from being usable of course, since each stone still works. I haven't tried gluing the pieces back together yet.

I really like having the CBN over the medium stone of the original for times when trying to restore an edge for knives of family/friends that are really dull. I'll probably acquire another DS2 in the future. And I am also looking forward to the CBN version of the DuckFoot.

I do really like the DoubleStuff2, such a compact portable tool that is easy to always have with you.
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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby sal » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:04 pm

Hi Rodloos,

You might send it back to us for a re-glueing?

sal

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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby GarageBoy » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:20 pm

The medium browns wear out? What is the 30 degree stand?

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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby JD Spydo » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:52 am

Whatever medium stone that is that BFK has in that one picture I would sure like to have one myself. Actually I would love to have it in medium and fine both if available? It's sure an interesting looking sharpening tool. I can think of at least a half a dozen sharpening jobs I could use one of those on. Especially with the 701 Profiles not being available at this time.

Can't wait for the CBN GOLDENSTONE. I'm finding myself using my fine GOLDENSTONE more and more. Especially on kitchen blades. Also I'm hoping that the base for the GOLDENSTONE will be available before the end of the year.

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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby N. Brian Huegel » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:45 pm

We had one come apart (not enough epoxy or wrong epoxy) in the store, but a couple of globs of J-B Weld and it is better than new!

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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby attila » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:39 pm

My Double Stuff 1 came apart after a little bit of ownership, and I'm glad it did.

I cleaned off the adhesive and lapped both sides of each flat with loose SiC to yield 4 different grits. I keep them in a mini maglite belt pouch with a thin kydex divider between them.

This wouldn't be as awesome with the Double Stuff 2 because I the CBN side is probably only plated on one side.
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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby Deadboxhero » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:13 am

I Haven't had my Double stuff or Double stuff 2 come apart but I did have my Fallkniven DC3 come apart when I was erroneously using it heavily with water. None of these stones should or need to be used with water as there is no benefit and the biggest benefit is that they don't.

I glued my dc3 back together. It looks like Sal has people covered if that problem ever comes up which is nice.

The glue I recommend for the do it yourself hard charger is a two part epoxy West System "G-Flex" best stuff, waterproof, very very stong, but expensive, get the 105 resin and the 206 hardener.
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Deadboxhero
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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby Deadboxhero » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:49 am

Here are some of my Pocket Stones for comparison, I left out the Worksharp guided field sharpener because it's too bulky for the pockets unless your wearing cargo pants and using the " knee banger" cargo pockets

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The Spydercos get allot of pocket time, lots of wear on the suede. I like to keep one in my front right pocket at all times

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I like the leather over the suede in look, feel and durability but the suede is has the advantage in stropping and loading compound better.


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These are the Gritomatic CBN metallic bonded stones, while the technology is superior, some people heads would explode when they hear the price. It's CBN abrasive all the way through in a bonding matrix of copper/Tin alloy. A cleaver and expensive way to get around the abrasive tear out and finishing problems of the coated abrasives. These are designed for the edge pro not necessarily for pockets

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Lansky super sapphire stone. Designed for the lansky, like a poor man's pocket UF stone but not as good as the Spyderco stuff.

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A traditional pocket natural Stone from Finland. Really just for carbon steels, doesn't have the cutting power for fancy steel. Very traditional. Needs oil to keep from clogging. Grooved side for fishing hooks

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This one is EVERYONEs first sharpener before we learn better. The Smiths "abomination". Pocket Pal. The diamond rod is rad though

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Back to the Fallkniven and the double stuff.

The Newer DC4 and DC3 have a much better darker gray stone, cuts much faster then the brown ceramic they had before which had "grooves" on the surface and was very slow and loaded bad. I dropped my DC4 by accident and it cracked the stone but the plate seems to be holding it together. My DC3 is the older version with the brown ceramic which isn't as nice as the brown ceramic on the Spyderco.

The brown ceramic on the Spyderco cuts more aggressive and has better feedback when Sharpening then the dc3 brown ceramic, both load very badly though and start burnishing more then cutting if not cleaned.
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CBN vs Diamond.

The DB2 had a lot coarser grit out of box then the DC4 and DC3
Both are very sensitive to tear out and light pressure ONLY should be used. They all have smoothed out but the DB2 has more life to it and breaks in better.

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The most underrated feature of the DB2 is the trapazoidal shape. It's not highlighted on retailer web pics.

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The original has the fine side "proud" or bigger then the brown side

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Because of the trapazoidal shape the DB2 is bigger, and also heavier then the db1 due to the full metal plate but not so much to prevent EDC.



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All the white ceramic, just like the brown ceramic is prone to load up, but it's not as much of an issue since they aren't used to remove lot of material. The lansky is a bit finer but not quite UF fine. The ceramic on the db1 and db2 is the same. The groove is for hooks and needles and doesn't interfere with regular Sharpening.

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These idahone super erasers are kinda handy for cleaning out the metal fillings that load up the ceramic. It's a rubber erasers with grit. It has a softer durmeter then the traditional rust erasers sold from Japan.


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Works just like a pencil eraser. The grit has to be throughly cleaned off though. On little partical make a crunchy noise on the stone and it's back to wiping it off on the pants and blowing unseen partical of the stone haha.

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A clean stone is a working stone

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My favorite part about the Double Stuff 2 is that that trapazoidal shape make the corners work like a honing rod, very very useful.
Fine
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Coarse
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Completly replaces the only cool and useful feature on the pocket Pal.

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What I like about the suede is loading it with a CBN emulsion


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The emulsion is better then the spray for this because emulsions make the suede stiffer which is nice since it's so floppy.

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It's rubbed in and left to dry.

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This is my favorite way to clean my Spyderco abrasives at home, this stuff also cleanens rust off like a BEAST everyone should have bar keepers friend. Very hand for the UF bench stone.

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blendergasket
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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby blendergasket » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:01 pm

Do you think the double stuff would be a good first stone set for hand sharpening? I use a guided system but want to start teaching myself to hand sharpen. I'd love something not super expensive but able.

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Re: Double Stuff 2| Best Pocket Stone

Postby Deadboxhero » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:41 pm

blendergasket wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:01 pm
Do you think the double stuff would be a good first stone set for hand sharpening? I use a guided system but want to start teaching myself to hand sharpen. I'd love something not super expensive but able.
The Double Stuff 2 would work but also look at the Worksharp guided Field sharpener, it's a little cheaper and has more training aids and features , it's just to bulky to carry in the pocket.

I carry the double stuff 2 the most because it's a minimalist set up and It's always in my pocket.
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