How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
Surfingringo
Member
Posts: 5593
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:02 pm
Location: Costa Rica

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby Surfingringo » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:21 pm

Vivi wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:06 pm
MichaelScott wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:27 pm
The differences appear to be a matter of personal taste and ergonomics not so about the strength or brittleness properties. I prefer FRN only because the ergonomics of the FRCP knives don’t appeal to me. If the UKPK, for example, were in a translucent FRCP I’d like it fine.
Yeah, seems a lot of folks are confusing the shape of a mold for handle scales with properties of FRCP itself, which gives it the bad reputation it seems to carry. IMO that's like deciding to hate micarta because the Phoenix used a polished micarta scale and you prefer grippy scales.

I'd wager good money that if FRCP were colored black, given a mild texture on the "smooth" spots, and contoured edges like an Endura 3, people wouldn't be able to tell they're supposed to hate it.
I can’t say for sure, but I think I’d still be able to tell the difference...but I also believe that would go a long way towards fixing the minor hangups I have with the frcp knives.

User avatar
Tucson Tom
Member
Posts: 1384
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:19 pm
Location: Somewhere in Arizona

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby Tucson Tom » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:47 pm

Vivi wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:06 pm
I'd wager good money that if FRCP were colored black, given a mild texture on the "smooth" spots, and contoured edges like an Endura 3, people wouldn't be able to tell they're supposed to hate it.
And I think you are right ! One of the reasons I own the Native 5 LW in Maxamet is that it is FRN and the Manix 2 LW in Maxamet is FRCP. But that grey FRCP they use on that Manix LW solves my issues with candy colors. I'd have to have the knife in hand to really know what I would think about the feel (i.e. I find it hard to judge "feel" from a photo on the internet). But given what I have learned about FRCP (in part due to this thread, Thanks!). I would be game to give that Manix LW Maxamet a go. In particular I now know that the FRCP is every bit as strong, with fine points as discussed already.

I actually like a knife with a bit of "bite" to the scales, and the Native 5 FRN pleases me in that way. Make it glassy plasticy smooth and I run the other way.

vivi
Member
Posts: 7435
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby vivi » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:07 pm

Tucson Tom wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:47 pm
Vivi wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:06 pm
I'd wager good money that if FRCP were colored black, given a mild texture on the "smooth" spots, and contoured edges like an Endura 3, people wouldn't be able to tell they're supposed to hate it.
And I think you are right ! One of the reasons I own the Native 5 LW in Maxamet is that it is FRN and the Manix 2 LW in Maxamet is FRCP. But that grey FRCP they use on that Manix LW solves my issues with candy colors. I'd have to have the knife in hand to really know what I would think about the feel (i.e. I find it hard to judge "feel" from a photo on the internet). But given what I have learned about FRCP (in part due to this thread, Thanks!). I would be game to give that Manix LW Maxamet a go. In particular I now know that the FRCP is every bit as strong, with fine points as discussed already.

I actually like a knife with a bit of "bite" to the scales, and the Native 5 FRN pleases me in that way. Make it glassy plasticy smooth and I run the other way.
I feel the same. I find the volcano style grips on the Pacific Salt / Endura 3 strike the perfect balance between grip and ease of draw for me. The newer Endura 4 texture is a bit grippier, but sharper too. I like to give it a light once over with 800 grit sandpaper before I EDC knives with that pattern.
Current carry rotation:

Pacific Salt 2 LC200N | Manix XL M4 DLC | Aqua Salt

User avatar
steelcity16
Member
Posts: 4235
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:34 am

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby steelcity16 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:08 pm

Tucson Tom wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:47 pm
Vivi wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:06 pm
I'd wager good money that if FRCP were colored black, given a mild texture on the "smooth" spots, and contoured edges like an Endura 3, people wouldn't be able to tell they're supposed to hate it.

And I think you are right ! One of the reasons I own the Native 5 LW in Maxamet is that it is FRN and the Manix 2 LW in Maxamet is FRCP. But that grey FRCP they use on that Manix LW solves my issues with candy colors. I'd have to have the knife in hand to really know what I would think about the feel (i.e. I find it hard to judge "feel" from a photo on the internet). But given what I have learned about FRCP (in part due to this thread, Thanks!). I would be game to give that Manix LW Maxamet a go. In particular I now know that the FRCP is every bit as strong, with fine points as discussed already.

I actually like a knife with a bit of "bite" to the scales, and the Native 5 FRN pleases me in that way. Make it glassy plasticy smooth and I run the other way.

I agree with all of this. I LOVE my Native LWs, but the FRN is definitely not as "comfy" as the Japanese FRN. Its not the rounded edges as much as the softer matte texture feeling of the Japanese FRN vs the smoother Native FRN. i wonder how much of that is slight formula difference vs the finishing of the molds. Maybe the mold for the native is highly polished where the japanese molds are sandblasted or something leaving a very slight texture in the finished frn.

I feel like I need to get the Manix LW to compare it to the Native LW and see if there is actually a difference between those since no one from Spyderco has confirmed that the Native is actually FRN and not FRCP. I am also wondering if there is any subtle difference between the translucent blue FRCP S110 Manix and the Gray Maxamet Manix. Maybe I need both? I do need to buy something to satisfy my spyder urges while I await the Native Salt.
:spyder: CRU-CARTA THEM ALL! :spyder:

User avatar
Sharp Guy
Member
Posts: 5976
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:19 pm
Location: Over here!

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby Sharp Guy » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:49 pm

Tucson Tom wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:47 pm
I actually like a knife with a bit of "bite" to the scales, and the Native 5 FRN pleases me in that way. Make it glassy plasticy smooth and I run the other way.
The Native 5 LW feels identical to the Manix 2 LW.
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

kodai78
Member
Posts: 233
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:14 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby kodai78 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:53 pm

I can’t tell a difference in hand. My Manix LW scales are better looking than any of my FRN knives IMO.
:spyder: Smock, Baby Jess Horn CE, Spydiechef, Schempp Bowie,Ti Fluted Military, Titanium Military, Native S30 V and G10, PM 2 in S35VN, and S110V, Manix 2 LW BD1, Sage 5, Positron black CPM S30V, Chaparral w/Raffir Noble scales, SuperLeaf VG 10, Ladybug H1, Dragonfly 2 in ZDP 189 and Superblue/420J1 and H1, Delica in ZDP 189, Clipitool Standard, the Cook’s knife VG10, Santorum, paring and utility knives, all in MBS 26. :spyder:

User avatar
Tucson Tom
Member
Posts: 1384
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:19 pm
Location: Somewhere in Arizona

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby Tucson Tom » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:34 pm

Well this is interesting. Looking on the Spyderco website, it says that the Native 5 LW Maxamet is FRN and the Manix 2 LW Maxamet is FRCP. If that is correct (and we should assume that it is), and "Sharp Guy" (and maybe others) has both knives in hand and says he can't tell a different, what shall we think about all of this? Can we conclude that in the grey variety, FRN and FRCP and for all purposes indistinguishable? Or is there a mistake in labeling the Native as FRN?

User avatar
steelcity16
Member
Posts: 4235
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:34 am

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby steelcity16 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:21 pm

Tucson Tom wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:34 pm
Well this is interesting. Looking on the Spyderco website, it says that the Native 5 LW Maxamet is FRN and the Manix 2 LW Maxamet is FRCP. If that is correct (and we should assume that it is), and "Sharp Guy" (and maybe others) has both knives in hand and says he can't tell a different, what shall we think about all of this? Can we conclude that in the grey variety, FRN and FRCP and for all purposes indistinguishable? Or is there a mistake in labeling the Native as FRN?

Thats the million dollar question. Is the Native LW actually FRN as the catalog says, or is it the same FRCP as the Manix LW?
:spyder: CRU-CARTA THEM ALL! :spyder:

User avatar
Sharp Guy
Member
Posts: 5976
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:19 pm
Location: Over here!

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby Sharp Guy » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:53 pm

steelcity16 wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:21 pm
Thats the million dollar question. Is the Native LW actually FRN as the catalog says, or is it the same FRCP as the Manix LW?
The Native 5 LW has been listed that way since it first appeared in the 2015 catalog. I'd be surprised to learn it's been listed incorrectly all this time. Spyderco specifies the M2 LW as FRCP and if the Native LW's the same why not list it that way.

Once again I've been comparing my Native 5 LWs to my Manix 2 LWs. Maybe (big maybe) the Natives feel very slightly different from the Manix 2 LWs. I had my gf close her eyes and touch the smooth and textures surfaces on both models and she couldn't feel the difference. She did notice a difference on the Delicas though, albeit very slight differences in her opinion. So I'll just say that the FRN on the Natives are much closer to the M2 LWs than they are to the Japanese FRN models. The FRN on the Chap LW and the Urban K390 LW feel more like the Japanese FRN. Interestingly, my Manbugs feel similar to the Manix 2 LWs to me. I still think it all comes down to the difference in finish on the molds that are used more than the material itself.

I'm not trying to tick anyone off here but I have to be honest, after handling all these knives, I think we're all being a little silly with all this. Whether the material's FRN or FRCP it all feels plasticky. The differences really are very subtle. Some of the FRN models do feel a tiny bit softer and I think it's a combination of the corners having a larger radius and the surface finish. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure there'd be a lot less complaining about the FRCP of the Manix 2 LW if they would've just said it was FRN. Not saying they should....it is what it is.
Last edited by Sharp Guy on Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

User avatar
MichaelScott
Member
Posts: 3008
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:42 am
Location: Southern Colorado

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby MichaelScott » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:55 pm

I agree.
Overheard at the end of the ice age, “We’ve been having such unnatural weather.”

http://acehotel.blog

Team Innovation

ladybug93
Member
Posts: 1726
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 11:20 pm

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby ladybug93 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:07 pm

i agree as well. the difference in feel is not as big a deal as the difference in shape (rounded vs. square edges) and texture (texture vs. smooth). even those differences aren't a big deal though. i've seen a few people compare the manix 2 lw to a lego brick. i think that's being a little dramatic. it's nowhere near as sharp as a lego. it could be a little nicer in the hand if it were rounded, but the grip is so ergonomic that it's hard to care about the edges unless you are just nitpicking.

User avatar
Tucson Tom
Member
Posts: 1384
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:19 pm
Location: Somewhere in Arizona

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby Tucson Tom » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:10 am

Sharp Guy wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:53 pm
I think we're all being a little silly with all this.
Well, yeah -- but isn't that what we are here for?

All I can say is that this Native 5 FRN I have here seems great to me. And if Sal says that FRCP is even stronger and you and your girl friend (an ideal unbiased tester) can't tell the difference, then I am totally on-board with FRCP. Has me thinking about the Maxamet Manix 2 LW -- or should I just save my money. Or just get the K390 Police 4 instead. All of these choices.

VashHash
Member
Posts: 3927
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:49 pm
Location: Louisiana

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby VashHash » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:30 am

It's all very confusing. Feels like the same material as my manix lw. Someone quoted this in another frn thread.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/mr- ... n.1050443/

And then this.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60206&start=2740#p1141957

User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 9686
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby Doc Dan » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:38 am

The only thing I can really say, and this might be because of liners vs no liners (I do not have a Salt), is that if you tap a Japanese FRN knife with a coin is gives a muted sound. If you tap FRCP it makes a plastic hollow sound. That does not mean either is better, just noting the difference. What brought this to my attention was that I had a Delica in my pocket with some coins. It was nice and quiet. I replaced it with a Native 5 LW and immediately there was a lot of noise coming from my pocket.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)


NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050

VashHash
Member
Posts: 3927
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:49 pm
Location: Louisiana

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby VashHash » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:43 am

Doc Dan wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:38 am
The only thing I can really say, and this might be because of liners vs no liners (I do not have a Salt), is that if you tap a Japanese FRN knife with a coin is gives a muted sound. If you tap FRCP it makes a plastic hollow sound. That does not mean either is better, just noting the difference. What brought this to my attention was that I had a Delica in my pocket with some coins. It was nice and quiet. I replaced it with a Native 5 LW and immediately there was a lot of noise coming from my pocket.
For a more definite answer. Drop your native a few times and then drop the delica. Let me know if the frn on the delica chips and then get back to me about the native.

I carried my h1 spyderhawk for 8 years without it chipping from dropping. I've had the native 5 for 3 years and it's got a few chips in it. I still like my native 5 lw and carry it almost every day. I just don't think it's frn from what I've experienced with it. At least not the good Japanese frn that's for sure.

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 22198
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby Evil D » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:23 am

I realized that I inadvertently put myself in the "hate" group, which isn't exactly true. I don't really prefer one over the other, but I do think the FRCP molds need improved vs FRN. I agree that a lot of the feeling difference is likely from shape and texture more than from the material itself. However, if given the option I would still choose linerless G10 or G10 with minimal liners (around the pivot and stop pin only) over either. The biggest advantage these materials have is being molded with textures or 3D sculpted grips ala D'Allara, but the same can be done with G10 and it doesn't require the expensive investment in molds (though I do wonder about the cost of machining G10 vs the cost of molds in the long run). I just prefer the feeling of G10 and the ease of modding the shape.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

User avatar
tvenuto
Member
Posts: 3790
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:16 am
Location: South Baltimore

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby tvenuto » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:23 am

Also rounded edges are less likely to chip off than sharp ones.

User avatar
Jazz
Member
Posts: 7663
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby Jazz » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:01 pm

Different FRN handles have different grippynesses. More or less glass fibres? The Japanese recipe is top notch for feel. If FRCP could feel like this, maybe I’d like it, but for now, I sure don’t at all.

And yeah, those square handles have to go. A little rounding goes a long way for comfort in a hard cut. The squared Manix back lock hurts my hand because it’s square. The Cold Steel American Lawman I have is the same size, but the rounded handles are very much more comfortable.
- best wishes, Jazz.

User avatar
jpm2
Member
Posts: 985
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:40 pm
Location: TX - in the sticks

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby jpm2 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:35 pm

If you like the shape of Japanese frn compared to the Golden models, it's pretty easy to make them similar with a file and sandpaper.

I agree there's something different with the Golden handles, maybe different composition, processed differently, shorter fibers, etc.
For lack of a better description, the Japanese version seems to be denser, yet coarser grained and softer feel.

Darth_cholo
Member
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:40 am

Re: How can you like FRN but hate FRCP?

Postby Darth_cholo » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:12 pm

Anybody think a rough grit sanding would help with grip on manix frcp? I've often thought about giving it a try.


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Airlsee, benben, Bing [Bot], eRoc, Fireman, FullFlatMind, Google [Bot], Holland, MFlovejp, odomandr, root, The Meat man, Wartstein, yablanowitz and 62 guests