MAP illegal?

[FCM415]

Forum lawyers, please interpret:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resale_ ... aintenance

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

Is it a Free Market in Golden CO USA Earth?

Are online dealers allowed to "add to cart for price" discounts?

Is it a prerequisite for an official dealer to sell Spydercos at a mandated artificial pricepoint online? How is this enforced. How are they penalized for offering goods below this artificially set minimum price? MAP seems like a lame cover for price fixing if dealers are forced to agree.

Sal blurted once that they are free to sell at whatever price in a long MAP thread challenging its legallity. Why then did Jeff from Cutleryshoppe, a Knifeworks gal, and Nationalknives all say otherwise?

Can anyone provide the forum official dealers online or otherwise that sell below MAP?

[jabba359]

The best thing that can happen to this thread is we all skip over replying to the obvious trolling and jump straight to posting dog pictures.

Edited to add: OP edited out the part of the first post inviting people to bash him and call him names, which was the "obvious trolling" I was referring to. I'm making this edit to put my response in context.

[FCM415]

Let the deflections, logical fallacies, and OP bashing begin.

[jabba359]

Let the deflections, logical fallacies, and OP bashing begin.

No need to begin. You supplied your own answer with the first link:

On June 28, 2007, the Supreme Court overruled Dr. Miles, discussed above, holding that such vertical price restraints as Minimum Advertised Pricing are not per se unlawful but, rather, must be judged under the "rule of reason." Leegin Creative Leather Products, Inc. v. PSKS, Inc., 551 U.S. 877 (2007). This marked a dramatic shift on how attorneys and enforcement agencies address the legality of contractual minimum prices and essentially allowed the reestablishment of resale price maintenance in the United States in most (but not all) commercial situations.

Note: edited to include post my first sentence is referring to just in case OP decides to edit again.

[FCM415]

" Thus, from the 1975 enactment of the Consumer Goods Pricing Act to the 2007 Leegin decision, resale price maintenance was again no longer legal in the United States."

"Between 1995 and 2000 music companies were found to have used illegal marketing agreements such as minimum advertised pricing to artificially inflate prices of compact discs in order to end price wars by discounters such as Best Buy and Target in the early 1990s. It is estimated customers were overcharged by nearly $500 million and up to $5 per album."

[FCM415]

Raising legal matters is trolling.

Make it go away!

[jabba359]

And I see you edited your original post, which invited people to bash you and call you names. I guess you didn't think it would be noticeable enough in that post, so had to make it it's own post to really try to get people angry. But I'm not playing your game.

[jabba359]

" Thus, from the 1975 enactment of the Consumer Goods Pricing Act to the 2007 Leegin decision, resale price maintenance was again no longer legal in the United States."

"Between 1995 and 2000 music companies were found to have used illegal marketing agreements such as minimum advertised pricing to artificially inflate prices of compact discs in order to end price wars by discounters such as Best Buy and Target in the early 1990s. It is estimated customers were overcharged by nearly $500 million and up to $5 per album."

Spyderco's MAP didn't exist between 1975 and 2007. So your point is invalid.

[FCM415]

Jabba, follow your own advice and ignore the thread or post dog pictures. Make peanut butter jokes.

Yes I knew I was gobna get bashed and attacked. It was yongue and cheek but decided to take it down.

First response was exactly what the deleted part predicted. You played right into it. Response, was irrational and flushed with defensiveness.

Theres nothing to hide. Just need truth. Facts.

[FCM415]

And I see you edited your original post, which invited people to bash you and call you names. I guess you didn't think it would be noticeable enough in that post, so had to make it it's own post to really try to get people angry. But I'm not playing your game.

Ok, let the OP bashing, deflections begin.

[FCM415]

I want clarity on the subject please.

[jabba359]

Where is the "bashing and attacking"? You asked to get called names and bashed, which *is* literally trolling. I then refuted your claims with facts from the link you provided. I didn't call names, bash you, or attack you. I disputed your assertation of illegality. I don't know how much more rational and calm you can ask for.

[FCM415]

Where is the "bashing and attacking"? You asked to get called names and bashed, which *is* literally trolling. I then refuted your claims with facts from the link you provided. I didn't call names, bash you, or attack you. I disputed your assertation of illegality. I don't know how much more rational and calm you can ask for.

You called me a troll and asked to dismiss this thread and troll it with dog pictures.

Like I said, it was predictable that this was going to get mucked up so I tried to get ahead of it... Then deleted it to give the forum a chance. Ten seconds later, Im called a troll

This freedom day, Id like to know more about price fixing in the knife industry where free market appears to be compromised.

Thanks for your input Jabba, but it isnt my intent to get sidetracked. Feel free to follow your advice, close your ears and walk away screaming blahblah I cant hear you.

[FCM415]

I am looking for some clarity. It is ok if my interpretation is wrong. Its such a grey area

[jabba359]

Where is the "bashing and attacking"? You asked to get called names and bashed, which *is* literally trolling. I then refuted your claims with facts from the link you provided. I didn't call names, bash you, or attack you. I disputed your assertation of illegality. I don't know how much more rational and calm you can ask for.

You called me a troll and asked to dismiss this thread and troll it with dog pictures.

Like I said, it was predictable that this was going to get mucked up so I tried to get ahead of it... Then deleted it to give the forum a chance. Ten seconds later, Im called a troll

This freedom day, Id like to know more about price fixing in the knife industry where free market appears to be compromised.

Thanks for your input Jabba, but it isnt my intent to get sidetracked. Feel free to follow your advice, close your ears and walk away screaming blahblah I cant hear you.

The post I was replying to *was* trolling. You might have edited the trolling out after the fact, but that doesn't change that my reply was to the original, unedited post. You then felt it necessary to follow up my reply with yet another trolling post (again, asking for deflections and bashing), only further enforcing the perception of trolling.

If you really want a discussion, you can always delete this thread (an option you have as the thread starter) and repost *without* the open invitation to bash (or the implication that any discussion in supporting the legality is a deflection or logical fallacy). That way it won't be filled with our clutter.

[FCM415]

It's fine Jabba.

My intent is clear. My conscience is clear.

If anyone wants to engage in mature discussion it would be nice.

If anyone wants to call me names, or act like they are mind readers, that's on them.

I am sorry that you interpret any of this including my deletion of a tongue and cheek preemptive sentence as trolling. I an also sorry that you feel that the thread should be trolled. Something that I was almost certain will happen unfortunately.

[jabba359]

You realize that "tongue [in] cheek" doesn't always come across on the internet, right? Because I'm *not* a mind-reader I can only take what you wrote at face value and, lacking any context to suggest otherwise, it appeared to be trolling (notice that I didn't call you a troll, but merely pointed out what I saw as a trolling behavior). You've since made it clear it was not intended as such. What I don't understand is why you wouldn't take the 30 seconds to repost a new thread and trash this one to help other people not have to dig through our back and forth?

Regarding "mature discussion", you seem to have conveniently ignored the 4th post in this thread.

[The Deacon]

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm fairly sure the decisions you refer to were about industry wide price fixing, where multiple sellers of similar products (like music CD's) collude and agree not to undersell one another. I think MAP is more like an end run around the 1975 repeal of the old Fair Trade Laws, which allowed manufacturers to require dealers to sell their products at full retail price. MAP, only limits advertised price, so it's not quite the same. You, as a buyer, can always call a dealer and attempt to negotiate a better price.

I doubt Spyderco, or any of the other manufacturers using MAP, would be doing so if it was illegal. There were companies, the pen manufacturer Mont Blanc comes to mind, requiring their dealers to follow MAP years before Spyderco adopted it. You'd think some dealer, somewhere, would have challenged it by now if it was illegal.

[StuntZombie]

What Deacon said. There's nothing that says dealers can't offer a discount through an unadvertised "sale". Basically a dealer can sell at any price they want, but they can't advertise any prices below that 40% off threshold.

[FCM415]

double