New Mules coming?

[koenigsegg]

I think they should release ones that did well a second time, I'd like Maxamet K390 XHP etc

I do plan on eventually getting LC200N 20CV PD1 and maybe one or two others

[The Mastiff]

It was a great run. Better than I could have asked for. I have enough for my and my son's lifetime and then some. I think I only missed one or two releases and have almost a complete set. No one will ever do anything like this again. Thanks Sal and the Spyderco team.

Joe

[Sumdumguy]

The S110V and Maxamet Mules sold well.

A11 is a lot like K390 and I am surprised it is moving slow.

I think Mules in Vanax, HAP72 or Rex121 would all sell well.

I would love to try Vanax!

[The Meat man]

The S110V and Maxamet Mules sold well.

A11 is a lot like K390 and I am surprised it is moving slow.

I think Mules in Vanax, HAP72 or Rex121 would all sell well.

I think the steel name has a lot to do with how well it sells. For instance, with all the craze for Cru-Wear, I find it astonishing that there are still Micro-Melt PD#1 Mules available. If they were labeled as Cru-Wear I bet they would have sold out long ago, and yet PD#1 and Cru-Wear are essentially identical in composition.

Also, M390 seems to be a lot more popular than CTS-204P and even CPM 20CV.

Part of that would no doubt come from the fact that certain steels like M390 or K390 are simply more well-known to the public than 204P or A11, but still, the Mule Team project is specifically geared toward steel nerds, not just your average Joe who doesn't know about different steels.

[Nate]

You nailed it. That's my complaint.

Meh, it doesn't really change the narrative.

For those following along at home:

The K390 Mule sold out in 3-4 days. It was released on the same day as the 2013 Forum Native, which sold out in 3-4 hrs (and definitely led to a lot of long faces, calls for larger runs on forum knives, and a pox upon the flippers). The S110V Mule sold out in ~2 days, which I believe led more directly to Sal's thread referenced earlier.

I think gaj999 may be conflating the CPM 154/CPM S90V PM2 with the foregoing. It's a similar, but different, story. As the release was limited to ~300 pieces, and there were a lot of sore bottoms, but it wasn't tied to a Mule and was distributed to dealers.

[Tucson Tom]

I think the steel name has a lot to do with how well it sells. For instance, with all the craze for Cru-Wear, I find it astonishing that there are still Micro-Melt PD#1 Mules available. If they were labeled as Cru-Wear I bet they would have sold out long ago, and yet PD#1 and Cru-Wear are essentially identical in composition.

Also, M390 seems to be a lot more popular than CTS-204P and even CPM 20CV.

Funny, I was having exactly the same thoughts this morning about exactly these two steels.

I need to slap the scales on my PD1 mule blade(s) and see if that stuff sharpens up in the same amazing way that Cruwear does.

With all the buzz about Cruwear on the forum, people should be snapping up these PD1 mules.

[Tucson Tom]

I think they should release ones that did well a second time, I'd like Maxamet K390 XHP etc

That would be wonderful. I won't try to second guess what Spyderco will actually do.

Most of us view the Mule Team project as a special gift and labor of love. I don't really know what it is like from Spyderco's end. I certainly hope they don't do it at a loss and that it more or less breaks even, but who knows -- and there are hidden non-recoverable costs in terms of the time and energy to make it all happen. So thanks from me to Sal and Spyderco for the Mules I was able to get.

I am encouraged that Sal says "no new mules planned at this time". Maybe when the boxes full of not yet sold mules move there will be more motivation.

[Nate]

I think the steel name has a lot to do with how well it sells. For instance, with all the craze for Cru-Wear, I find it astonishing that there are still Micro-Melt PD#1 Mules available. If they were labeled as Cru-Wear I bet they would have sold out long ago, and yet PD#1 and Cru-Wear are essentially identical in composition.

Also, M390 seems to be a lot more popular than CTS-204P and even CPM 20CV.

Funny, I was having exactly the same thoughts this morning about exactly these two steels.

I need to slap the scales on my PD1 mule blade(s) and see if that stuff sharpens up in the same amazing way that Cruwear does.

With all the buzz about Cruwear on the forum, people should be snapping up these PD1 mules.

You guys are making excellent points, it baffles me...

A11:K390
20CV:M390
PD1:Cruwear

This is an excellent time to pick up mules if you like the pattern or want to test different types of steel. I might have to pick up another one on principal, maybe RWL34. Since it hasn't gotten much love I'd probably like it a lot lol.

[gaj999]

Meh, it doesn't really change the narrative.

It doesn't change it, no. And dismiss my comments all you want, but it's still wrong. He exaggerates to support that narrative. Two Mules out of 27 sell out quickly. Quickly being days. How does that get distorted to nearly all selling out in minutes? He mentions 52100 and Super Blue. Really? Both were available for quite a while. No mad rush. And was the response really as stated? In my mind, he's saying A caused B when I know that A is wrong and I suspect that B never happened. So 99% BS. But it is a nice linear narrative and he sounds knowledgeable saying it. If it comforts you, believe it. :) Is he perhaps a friend or relative of yours? Why are you so vigorous in his defense? Seems odd to me. As to the PM2 thing? That's just a recollection. There was some sought-after knife made available the same day as the K390 mule and K390 got added onto a lot of orders. It wasn't a knife I had any interest in, so I didn't really pay attention to the model. Someone probably remembers but isn't interested in getting involved in this strange argument about a third party comment.

[GarageBoy]

Mules are a steal at the price - especially the ones that haven't appreciated in value - a nice slab of pma11 for $70?

[Bodog]

It makes me wonder if the slow sales are because the last several releases are either very similar to other already released steels or steels that were quickly released as folders which more people would rather have.

I believe if Spyderco returned to releasing new steels that have no equivalents and are interesting then sales would pick up on them. When the mules sold fast they were always models that were extremely interesting with little to no history.

Personally it has always bugged me how little feedback was given considering how many were sold. I think the coma of the mule team is partially spyderco's fault for releasing fixed blades with uninteresting steels, fixed blades with new, interesting steels that already have been or will be quickly produced as folders, and a lot to do with us as consumers abusing the program and not giving a lot of good, bad, and ugly truths about the steels so spyderco can adequately gauge performance and interest from people who know steels more than the average layman. Most just buy them and sit on them as collection pieces or use them lightly in the kitchen or cut miles of cardboard and rope which, i assume, spyderco can test on its own. There's no incentive for people to spend time writing up a review when they can just buy one and maybe use it, maybe not.

Release a mule team folder in new, unknown or interesting steels and give discounts to people with verifiable, useful reviews of past steels with the agreement that they will post honest reviews of the mules they buy at a discount and i think the program would blast off and be more than just breaking even. It'd be profitable and very, very helpful to the knife world. If there was some kind of ranking system that spyderco created similar to martial arts, wow, that'd be revolutionary. The level you obtain based on reviews and knowledge, as judged by spyderco, determines the amount of discount you receive when buying a new mule team folder blade. Kind of like the collector's club but for steel and edge aficionados.

Regardless, the mule team project is, imo, one of the best things any knife company has ever done. I don't want to see it die. I also don't have unlimited funds to buy any and everything. If i buy a testing model, it needs to be something I'm willing to carry and test and write reviews about. Not something i won't carry, something someone else will poorly review with no incentive to be totally honest about, or something i simply dont care about one way or the other. All of the recent mule team drops hit one of those points. Won't carry, don't care, not enough money, or a lot of ignorant people giving uneducated opinions based on irrational or ignorant opinions. All of those things make me not give a **** about buying or testing or reviewing whatever steel.

[Nate]

It doesn't change it, no.

No, and I showed in detail with links how it's essentially correct, despite the embellishment. I'm pursuing it primarily for the OP's benfit as it relates to the topic of discussion in this thread. I also think it may be beneficial for people to know what actually occurred, if they're interested. At least with links, anyone can read it for themselves and form their own conclusions.

Have a good one, and enjoy that orbit you're in.

[gaj999]

Have a good one, and enjoy that orbit you're in.

Same to you. The horse too.

[steelcity16]

It makes me wonder if the slow sales are because the last several releases are either very similar to other already released steels or steels that were quickly released as folders which more people would rather have.

I believe if Spyderco returned to releasing new steels that have no equivalents and are interesting then sales would pick up on them. When the mules sold fast they were always models that were extremely interesting with little to no history.

Personally it has always bugged me how little feedback was given considering how many were sold. I think the coma of the mule team is partially spyderco's fault for releasing fixed blades with uninteresting steels, fixed blades with new, interesting steels that already have been or will be quickly produced as folders, and a lot to do with us as consumers abusing the program and not giving a lot of good, bad, and ugly truths about the steels so spyderco can adequately gauge performance and interest from people who know steels more than the average layman. Most just buy them and sit on them as collection pieces or use them lightly in the kitchen or cut miles of cardboard and rope which, i assume, spyderco can test on its own. There's no incentive for people to spend time writing up a review when they can just buy one and maybe use it, maybe not.

Release a mule team folder in new, unknown or interesting steels and give discounts to people with verifiable, useful reviews of past steels with the agreement that they will post honest reviews of the mules they buy at a discount and i think the program would blast off and be more than just breaking even. It'd be profitable and very, very helpful to the knife world. If there was some kind of ranking system that spyderco created similar to martial arts, wow, that'd be revolutionary. The level you obtain based on reviews and knowledge, as judged by spyderco, determines the amount of discount you receive when buying a new mule team folder blade. Kind of like the collector's club but for steel and edge aficionados.

Regardless, the mule team project is, imo, one of the best things any knife company has ever done. I don't want to see it die. I also don't have unlimited funds to buy any and everything. If i buy a testing model, it needs to be something I'm willing to carry and test and write reviews about. Not something i won't carry, something someone else will poorly review with no incentive to be totally honest about, or something i simply dont care about one way or the other. All of the recent mule team drops hit one of those points. Won't carry, don't care, not enough money, or a lot of ignorant people giving uneducated opinions based on irrational or ignorant opinions. All of those things make me not give a **** about buying or testing or reviewing whatever steel.

I agree with a lot of this. Here's what I would do...

New folding mule that is basically a Manix Backlock LW in White FRN...call it a "Manimule" :P

This new model could be used for mules with white FRN as the designation, and also be used as a normal production "Manix Backlock LW" model in other FRN colors and Steels. And it could even be the form factor for a Manix Backlock LW Salt in LC200N...and then maybe we could see a Vanax salt mule.

Not sure how many interesting steels are left out there that arent just different company's versions of already used steels, but this would be a good way to keep the mule program going and breath new life into it. You might get some fresh buyers (like myself) who held out because they didnt need a fixed blade and/or have hangups about taiwan stuff. I would guess that a white frn "manimule" in any interesting new steel wouldn't sit in inventory for too long (vanax, rex121, V4E...and i would definitely do 4V and 3V even though they arent nessearily new). make half of each run with dlc and that would make it even better. dlc against white frn would look amazing and a lot of people love dlc. i would definitely grab one of each (plain and dlc) from each run.

but unfortunately for me im just a consumer...fun to dream though! :P

[The Meat man]

Regardless, the mule team project is, imo, one of the best things any knife company has ever done. I don't want to see it die. I also don't have unlimited funds to buy any and everything. If i buy a testing model, it needs to be something I'm willing to carry and test and write reviews about. Not something i won't carry, something someone else will poorly review with no incentive to be totally honest about, or something i simply dont care about one way or the other. All of the recent mule team drops hit one of those points. Won't carry, don't care, not enough money, or a lot of ignorant people giving uneducated opinions based on irrational or ignorant opinions. All of those things make me not give a **** about buying or testing or reviewing whatever steel.

I agree 100%, especially with the first three sentences. :)

As a newcomer to Spyderco who missed out on most of the runs, I would hate to see this project die. And what better reason than to buy a new Spyderco in a new steel??
I just did my part and ordered a Micro-Melt PD#1.

[Capt'n Boatsalot]

All of this talk reminds me that I should get a PD1 and a 20CV Mule. Only hang up is I need $150 for free shipping. Maybe I will combine this with the upcoming Forum PM2?

Generally agree that I would buy more if they were folders. I do enjoy fixed blades, but don't have tons of uses for them. I like the idea of a white scaled folder. Perhaps that would prevent robbing too many sales from other models?

[Bodog]

...

I just did my part and ordered a Micro-Melt PD#1.

Please, tell us all about what you think. All the good, bad, and ugly. That's what the program was for. Neglect it, beat it, use it, just treat it like you would a tool you love but want to pimp slap at the same time.

[Nate]

If you can show me actual support for the above being true, I'd like to see it. I'd even admit I'm wrong.

... :rolleyes:

[ZMW]

Manimule, I love it!! There is an old school BJJ player dubbed Manimal. He was an absolute beast and that name carries a lot of respect.

I dig it, I hope Sal and Team consider it

[Tucson Tom]

Personally it has always bugged me how little feedback was given considering how many were sold. I think the coma of the mule team is partially spyderco's fault for releasing fixed blades with uninteresting steels, fixed blades with new, interesting steels that already have been or will be quickly produced as folders, and a lot to do with us as consumers abusing the program and not giving a lot of good, bad, and ugly truths about the steels

I have thought a lot about the first thing you say -- that it is surprising how little feedback I see on the forum about the mules and new steels. Now I am as guilty as anyone, and I make excuse for myself because I am new around here, and no knife and steel expert, so what business do I have commenting on bleeding edge knife steels? I am just slapping scales on the blades and using them for everyday things, not cutting miles of rope or cardboard. But maybe feedback on fairly pedestrian testing like that is of value.

But that is supposed to be what a "mule" is -- an easy to produce prototype that allows a steel to be tested and evaluated -- at least that is how I understand it. And we all know Sal reads the forum and presumably would take note of any feedback that wasn't just rubbish.

Or have the mules turned into some kind of "baseball cards" for collectors (be the first on your block to collect them all!). Clearly they have in some circles. As for me, I just think they are cool as heck and feel privileged to play with a new exotic knife steel. And someday I hope to do what some have done and turn them into really nice knives rather than just use the bolt on scales. All the more reason to pick up something like the RWL-34 (which if I understand it is very close to ATS-34 or CPM 154, which is a great steel) and learn to craft a knife from the blade.

So I certainly don't want to see the project die.

As for Bodog's analysis of some of the factors that may have led to poor sales recently, his ideas sound entirely reasonable to me. Take Rex 45 for example. Will there be much enthusiasm for a Rex 45 mule by anyone other than me after there is a sprint run with the PM2 and Military in that steel?