A11 Grade Question for Hunting Knife

[Skinner]

Just finished up with my first Mule Team project in the micromelt A11. The smaller one is for myself, and the larger one is for my Dad's birthday. I purchased the steel mainly for the reported excellent performance for skinning big game from Phil Wilson's articles.

As we both will typically use our knives for multiple deer, wild boar, elk, etc. at a time, superior edge holding is the goal while maintaining an adequate level of toughness. These would be used purely for skinning, and other boning knives would be making contact with the bones for the most part.

My question for those experienced with A11 grade steel (10V, K390) is what inclusive angle still provides an adequate level of toughness without "carbide tearout" or micro-chipping issues? As I prefer a microbevel for ease of maintenance and resharpening, I am currently considering a 30 degree inclusive angle with 40 degree microbevel or ~25 degree inclusive angle with 30 degree microbevel. I use an edge pro to set the primary bevel and sharpmaker to set and maintain the microbevel. Thanks in advance.

[Ankerson]

15 DPS is fine, you won't have to worry about issues with the edge.

[Deadboxhero]

Just finished up with my first Mule Team project in the micromelt A11. The smaller one is for myself, and the larger one is for my Dad's birthday. I purchased the steel mainly for the reported excellent performance for skinning big game from Phil Wilson's articles.

As we both will typically use our knives for multiple deer, wild boar, elk, etc. at a time, superior edge holding is the goal while maintaining an adequate level of toughness. These would be used purely for skinning, and other boning knives would be making contact with the bones for the most part.

My question for those experienced with A11 grade steel (10V, K390) is what inclusive angle still provides an adequate level of toughness without "carbide tearout" or micro-chipping issues? As I prefer a microbevel for ease of maintenance and resharpening, I am currently considering a 30 degree inclusive angle with 40 degree microbevel or ~25 degree inclusive angle with 30 degree microbevel. I use an edge pro to set the primary bevel and sharpmaker to set and maintain the microbevel. Thanks in advance.

IMG_1562.JPG

15 dps, no microbevel

[Skinner]

Thanks for the replies. I know it will support a 30 degree primary bevel, but I really do prefer quick touch ups on the sharpmaker which would limit me to the 40 degree setting. I would prefer a 20-25 degree (10-12.5 DPS) primary bevel with a 30 degree (15 DPS) microbevel if anyone has experience with these higher carbide steels at these acute angles. Specifically the recent article about the exponential increase in cutting performance with CPM154 at 20 degrees (10 DPS) is influencing my desire for a primary bevel below 30 degrees

[Ankerson]

Thanks for the replies. I know it will support a 30 degree primary bevel, but I really do prefer quick touch ups on the sharpmaker which would limit me to the 40 degree setting. I would prefer a 20-25 degree (10-12.5 DPS) primary bevel with a 30 degree (15 DPS) microbevel if anyone has experience with these higher carbide steels at these acute angles. Specifically the recent article about the exponential increase in cutting performance with CPM154 at 20 degrees (10 DPS) is influencing my desire for a primary bevel below 30 degrees

Thickness behind the edge has much more influence on performance than edge angle ever will. (Been proven over the years)


So it's basically coarse edge and thin grind that gives the max performance. (Also Proven)


With A11 it really won't matter anyway as far as edge retention goes in use because it holds an edge for so long anyway you won't have to even touch the edge doing what you will be doing.


So the Mule Team with a 15 DPS edge and coarse around 320 - 400 grit will handle what you want it to do as is.

You could however send it to Big Chris and have it reground to .010" behind the edge and use 15 DPS edge angle, that would give an excellent balance performance. Using a coarse edge around 320 to 400 grit as stated above also.

[Deadboxhero]

Thanks for the replies. I know it will support a 30 degree primary bevel, but I really do prefer quick touch ups on the sharpmaker which would limit me to the 40 degree setting. I would prefer a 20-25 degree (10-12.5 DPS) primary bevel with a 30 degree (15 DPS) microbevel if anyone has experience with these higher carbide steels at these acute angles. Specifically the recent article about the exponential increase in cutting performance with CPM154 at 20 degrees (10 DPS) is influencing my desire for a primary bevel below 30 degrees

Yes the article is exciting because it shows how important geometry is but it's only scraping the surface.

Its been known for a long time that it's not just about the edge angle or the spine thickness but how THIN the grind is behind the edge that is the most misunderstood and underappreciated aspect of why a knife cuts so great for so long.


Jim has also showed this in his rope cut testing.

The reason why you don't see more thin ground knives is because the knife performance depends on the knife USER, some people are just too dang Clumsy to handle a thin edge and will damage it quickly with chiseling, prying and torquing the edge to which they also lack the know how to reset and repair the bevel beyond just honing.


Also you can't just follow a formula

There is no "high carbide steels need higher angles"

There's alot more going on in alot of these steels to just slap a "cookie cutter" angle too them, The USER decides what they can or cannot handle in use.

In my experience,
Run the a11 thin, for hunting, follow Jim's advice for edge finish.

If you're running the sharpmaker, try the Congress tools triangle 6" by 1/2" Moldmaster 400 grit SiC Stones, they fit in the sharpmaker. (Very affordable)

https://www.congresstools.com/catalog/c ... ory/?id=27
You'll have to order them direct. It's an industrial website so it's not very flashy.

Use Windex to keep em from loading. And create a very faint burr on both sides at 30 inclusive. The difficult part is to deburr using very light pressure (as light as possible) with brisk alternating passes to reduce the burr.

The edge if consistent, well apexed and properly deburred should shave and cut paper albeit being very toothy.

You can add more precision, push cutting and cutting quality (better "shaving" at the cost of endurance) by jumping to the white rods for a few alternating passes also at 30 inclusive or a 1um diamond compound on leather or a mix of both. Some even like to load the slurry off the 400 SiC stone to leater and strop from there.

[Phil Wilson]

Skinner, all good advice above. If you want confidence on how your blades will do in the field then get some manila rope, 5/8 or 3/4 inch and do some cutting yourself, try different angles, sharpening and grits. Manila rope is a good substitute for animal hair and hide. Also check out how Jim cuts wood to see how an edge will hold up. aggressive whittling on seasoned fir and twisting the blade out of the cut will quickly demonstrate the edge strength. Try some very hard wood like seasoned oak or Bocote or ironwood and expect to see some fine chips since it is very easy to overload the edge doing that. Thats ok since you have now found the sweet spot. The main thing in the field is avoid chopping since that puts on dynamic loads and A11 or grades and other high alloys are sensitive to impact loads. Use a saw or axe for the real heavy work. Phil

[Skinner]

Thanks for all of the detailed replies. A wealth of useful information