Why no DLC on more carbon steel knives?

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The Mastiff
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Re: Why no DLC on more carbon steel knives?

Postby The Mastiff » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:38 am

I don't buy coated blades generally.

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Re: Why no DLC on more carbon steel knives?

Postby mattman » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:25 am

Ionbond participated in a discussion a few years ago over on bf. The subject came up again a month or two ago, and rycen dug that conversation out. It's pretty informative...
Basically they say that the DLC layer is "micro-porous", and is very good at holding anti-corrosion films/substances. It is also capable of preventing corrosion at certain thicknesses, but stated a few times that at thinner specs, it wasn't very good by itself, but still good at keeping other agents around.

I'll see if I can dig it up later.
Last edited by mattman on Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why no DLC on more carbon steel knives?

Postby mattman » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:29 am


Darth_cholo
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Re: Why no DLC on more carbon steel knives?

Postby Darth_cholo » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:19 pm

abbazaba wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:17 am
Would corrosion under DLC be about as likely as corrosion between laminated steels? HAP40 and SUS410, for example?
My understanding is there's no way to get corrosion under a lamination between steels. I think this is the best way, but expensive way to give carbon steels some protection. Some Maxamet between some 154CM would be cool. But I bet that it's too hard or expensive (impossible maybe?) to forge/manufacture.

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Re: Why no DLC on more carbon steel knives?

Postby Cujobob » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:01 pm

I believe it was Aaron Gough on Youtube that did a thorough test of coatings on blades and was finding in many cases the coating was making the corrosion much worse than it was on uncoated blades exactly the same.

I believe this is the video, but I didn't review it today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6cKjbDToXU

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Re: Why no DLC on more carbon steel knives?

Postby abbazaba » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:55 pm

Cujobob wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:01 pm
I believe it was Aaron Gough on Youtube that did a thorough test of coatings on blades and was finding in many cases the coating was making the corrosion much worse than it was on uncoated blades exactly the same.

I believe this is the video, but I didn't review it today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6cKjbDToXU
Must be thinking of a different guy, Gough thinks DLC is the bomb...

Right at 6 minutes he says that the DLC did the best in the corrosion test along with the Cerakote.

At 8 minutes he says the best over all was the DLC.

On his website he says: These knives have an ultra-high-performance DLC (Diamond Like Carbon) coating on the blade which helps increase corrosion resistance while also eliminating reflections from the blade. If you want a blade that is low maintenance, DLC is my recommendation!

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Re: Why no DLC on more carbon steel knives?

Postby zhyla » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:23 pm

I thought DLC was just for people that want their knives to look ninja? :)

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sal
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Re: Why no DLC on more carbon steel knives?

Postby sal » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:48 pm

I believe that Gerber coated their knives for Viet Nam. The edges rusted (not coated) and the corrosion got under the coating from there.

sal

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Re: Why no DLC on more carbon steel knives?

Postby Cujobob » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:05 pm

abbazaba wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:55 pm
Cujobob wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:01 pm
I believe it was Aaron Gough on Youtube that did a thorough test of coatings on blades and was finding in many cases the coating was making the corrosion much worse than it was on uncoated blades exactly the same.

I believe this is the video, but I didn't review it today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6cKjbDToXU
Must be thinking of a different guy, Gough thinks DLC is the bomb...

Right at 6 minutes he says that the DLC did the best in the corrosion test along with the Cerakote.

At 8 minutes he says the best over all was the DLC.

On his website he says: These knives have an ultra-high-performance DLC (Diamond Like Carbon) coating on the blade which helps increase corrosion resistance while also eliminating reflections from the blade. If you want a blade that is low maintenance, DLC is my recommendation!
One of the commenters in that youtube link mentioned DLC as being known for corrosion, too. It could come down to a lot of variables, like how clean the blade is when the coating is applied.

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Re: Why no DLC on more carbon steel knives?

Postby vivi » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:22 pm

sal wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:48 pm
I believe that Gerber coated their knives for Viet Nam. The edges rusted (not coated) and the corrosion got under the coating from there.

sal
I wonder how much coating technology has advanced since then?

I've used a lot of coated blades from a wide range of manufacturers, everything from BudK $5 folders to $400 custom fixed blades. Never seen it.
Current carry rotation:

Pacific Salt 2 LC200N | Manix XL M4 DLC | Aqua Salt

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Re: Why no DLC on more carbon steel knives?

Postby ladybug93 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:53 pm

i wish the native 5 salt would come with dlc. it looks a little silly to me with black hardward and no dlc. a completely blacked out version would be even better. i like the yellow handles alright, but not so much for an edc.

i'll still buy one though. any idea on the release date? i've been watching very impatiently for months.

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Re: Why no DLC on more carbon steel knives?

Postby ThePeacent » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:54 am

steelcity16 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:38 am
The black Salts with the black "DLC-like" coating are nice looking as well. I have a mixture of both coated and uncoated, and I have no real preference other than looks.
even though they look really nice and the coating doesn't matter in regards to their corrosion resistance, I believe the Black Salts are coated with TiNi and not DLC :cool:

Regarding DLC; I am by no means the one with the most knowledge, knives or experience but all of my DLC coated knives have shown improved corrosion resistance over the others, in the same conditions and environments, :rolleyes:

and I have only managed to minimally scratch two of the DLC coatings in two of my blades in these years, it is really tough stuff :)

I love DLC!

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Re: Why no DLC on more carbon steel knives?

Postby MMGRenovations » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:54 pm

Hey Sal I’m glad you brought up the subject of DLC and corrosion resistance.

First off I must give you a disclosure, I live in Florida, I work as a carpenter. That means I work about half the time outside and I sweat like crazy! I sweat so much it looks like I peed my pants :D I also feel like I have corrosive sweat.

Reading thru this whole thread Mattman said something that resonates a lot with my experience. I think I have noticed the “micro pores”. I have noticed that when I work outside all day and get really sweaty, my knife has tiny spots on it. It seems like it’s surface rust because I can easily rub it out with my fingers. I notice the red/orangy color on my hands when I do it. This leads me to believe that the sweat gets into the micro pores. I do believe that the coating does prevent corrosion to a certain degree. I regularly carry a uncoated M4 manix and a coated Manix. The uncoated one gets pretty rusty on the days I work outside. The coated one just gets spots. I have noticed that the spots do affect the finish on the coating. It goes from being dull to shiny, like when you cut high friction material that develops heat. I also notice the spots only develop on the presentation side which is the side that faces my body when it’s in my pocket.

If you ask me DLC coating definitely prevents corrosion to a certain degree. I feel it more or less enhances the corrosion resistance of the steel which it was applied to. The reason I say that is because of Vivi’s experience. It’s not the first time I have seen him express his experience. He said his knife is S30v. I think S30v has good corrosion resistance alone, add DLC and its pretty much rust proof for most situations.

My phone is acting up and won’t let me upload pics to a picture hosting site. The only way I can show you my knives is this link. Sorry if it’s not alllowed maybe someone can post the pics for me here.
https://bladeforums.com/media/8cc4803a- ... b421.3911/

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Re: Why no DLC on more carbon steel knives?

Postby vivi » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:27 pm

ThePeacent wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:54 am
steelcity16 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:38 am
The black Salts with the black "DLC-like" coating are nice looking as well. I have a mixture of both coated and uncoated, and I have no real preference other than looks.
even though they look really nice and the coating doesn't matter in regards to their corrosion resistance, I believe the Black Salts are coated with TiNi and not DLC :cool:

Regarding DLC; I am by no means the one with the most knowledge, knives or experience but all of my DLC coated knives have shown improved corrosion resistance over the others, in the same conditions and environments, :rolleyes:

and I have only managed to minimally scratch two of the DLC coatings in two of my blades in these years, it is really tough stuff :)

I love DLC!
Some non-H1 knives have TiNi coatings, and in my experience this coating does not prevent corrosion as well as DLC. My Szabo folder with the black blade developed rust near the pivot from being carried in a sweaty pocket.
Current carry rotation:

Pacific Salt 2 LC200N | Manix XL M4 DLC | Aqua Salt

vivi
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Re: Why no DLC on more carbon steel knives?

Postby vivi » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:30 pm

Here's a shot of the Manix clipped to my waistband as I type:

Image

It's about 101F and I'm completely soaked through my clothes from doing yard work. My Manix often spends twelve hours or more a day soaked in sweat like this. (There was twice this much on the blade, but the heat evaporated it before I could photograph the knife)

My sweat is extremely corrosive. Any uncoated blade that isn't H1 would sweat after a day like this. My Manix XL hasn't ever shown rust and it's been exposed to these conditions for years.

DLC and other coatings are a game changer when it comes to corrosion resistance. Gun makers understand this, why aren't knife makers jumping on it?
Current carry rotation:

Pacific Salt 2 LC200N | Manix XL M4 DLC | Aqua Salt


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