Where's the 3V?

[MMGRenovations]

3V won't offer anything over M4 in a folder.

I have knives in both steels and fully agree.

I respect your opinion, but could either of you elaborate on the apex stability of 3v vs m4? I was under the impression that they were not equal.


To anyone: Did people shoot down the idea of m4 being in a folder initially? How about cruwear? How about 52100? Or is this just specific to 3v?

Nothing wrong with 3v brotha.
But this is one of those rare situations where steel like CRUWEAR and 4v are just plain better for that application that's why you don't see it being used

It's like trying to make a powerlifter compete in gymnastics.

Like using a hardcore off road truck on a race track against race cars.

Guys like Chad (xplorer) speak with experience, he makes legit knives.

Trust me, if I got insane edge stability from 3v I'd rock that stuff all day. But it's doesn't work like that. Put 3v on a thin small blade and 4v notice that 3v will blunt and roll faster while 4v will just hold it's shape.

On a big chopper the opposite, all that malleablity and ductility on 3v come in handy, especially with heavy impact.

4v will hold it's shape better but is more likely to break in that scenario.

****, you can push 3v to the point were you need even TOUGHER steels like 1v for heavy shock.

1v on a folder though? Too soft even at 60hrc, the benefit is lost.

Your post describes most accurately what I comprehend from reading this thread. It makes a lot of sense especially with the off road truck analogy. Thanks for posting that. Being a steel junky it’s always interesting seeing how one steel compares to the next. That being said I would buy a Manix 2 in 3v just to try out the steel.

What hardness can be achieved with 3v? How hard is it to sharpen? I’m also interested in edge stability. Would 3v sit between 52100 and Cruwear?

As others have noted 52100 seems out of place in a folder but I love it. I really like the way it feels when I cut wood.

[steelcity16]

Great discussion everyone. Thanks for bringing all of your experiences to light. A lot of very interesting findings with these different steels.

I guess in the end though, the whole point of this thread was that I still don't see a reason to not do a sprint run of 3V in the PM2 at a minimum to satisfy the many "tough steel afi's" who want one. No one here has used a PM2 in 3V and we have no idea what kind of magic the fellas at Spyderco will do to the 3V blade, so we are all only guessing how it will truly perform in that package. And the PM2 format would pretty much guarantee an easy sell out of the Sprint run, so it's not really a big risk financially. The whole point of these sprints in new steels (from what I can gather) is to satisfy the steel afi's urge to test out new and exciting steels. So why not let those of us test out 3V? Maybe they come up with a great heat treat and everyone will love it and it will be the next Cruwear. Or maybe we will all finally see the light and verify what some are saying about it not being great for a folder, and we can finally put it to rest. But I think it is something that has been brought up enough times over the years, and there is enough of a following and demand that we should give it a shot and see what it can do! :)

P.S. While I think the PM2 is a great jumping off point for many reasons (easy sell out, wide range of other steels for apples to apples comparison, great knife in general, probably the most demand for this steel in a PM2), I would be plenty fine if this sprint was in a Shaman, Manix XL, Manix Backlock, Military or Native. Whatever the guys there think would let the great qualities of this steel shine the brightest! The Shaman seems like a good fit to me, but what do I know? :p

P.P.S. I would like a sprint of 4V as well to test! :D :D :D

[The Mastiff]

I really like 3V and have more than 10 3V knives. For folders I have called for it but don't think the Para 2 or 3 is the best vehicle for it. I prefer the CPM Cruwear/PD#1/Zwear class for it's higher hardness potential and slightly better balance of attributes for thin high performance slicers. The Tuff is a very well built and designed knife and it does great with 3V. I'm a lockback guy and feel the original lockback Manix would have been perfect with 3V @ rc 60. The Chinook as well.

Joe

[curlyhairedboy]

I'm itching for a shaman in 3v or M4.

[dogrunner]

I'm itching for a shaman in 3v or M4.

Me 2. or 4V. or Cruwear. Actually Cruwear first, but any of the above :)

btw, I agree with the original poster that 3V sprints in the popular models would sell well, but also that the comparisons with other steels have been well-described repeatedly and well. I am a fan of 3V and think a 3V Military would be awesome, but it would not replace my Cruwear that I carry every day!

[Pelagic]

I feel like the logic "X steel should never be offered because Y steel does what X does, but better" has no end. And if that logic were actually followed, spyderco wouldn't have so many different steels in a single model.

The idea of the 3v knife is just that one you would grab when you encounter a situation where there's no way you'd use your average spyderco sprint run knife. The types of situations where decent force (but not more than a folder can handle) is needed for a cut and the blade is likely to make contact with something that will cause severe edge damage. Some of us have jobs where situations like this are unavoidable and would really value a workhorse knife we aren't afraid to pull out for the toughest scenarios.

An example that MAY highlight the kind of edge damage I'm describing:

If I had a pm2 sharpened at 30 inclusive and I was whittling a 2x4 with moderate force and struck a hidden nail, which steel would yield the least damage to the edge?

3V, 4V, Cruwear, M4, or 52100?

Rockwell hardness aside, I suppose it would matter at what speed you struck the nail, as I'm inclined to believe 3v and 52100 would do better if the nail was struck quickly.

So as you can see my concern is simply preventing edge damage. A hard work knife that can take some abuse (within the limits of a folder). Is 3V simply a bad choice for this? Are the other steels I listed above THAT much better?

This is a huge oversimplification, but I was under the impression that 3v has better wear resistance, edge retention, and corrosion resistance than 52100, with toughness being close. People seem to love 52100. I do understand that for most people's uses 3v simply isn't the best choice. But the same could be said for s110v. Hopefully this clears up some of what I do understand as well as what I don't understand.

[dogrunner]

Pelagic - I am totally on board with your logic. I don't buy steels to have them, I buy them because I want the model of knife and I want the steel that will hold up to my intended uses. Corrosion resistance is a minor concern, but I have limited patience for spending time sharpening and I have limited patience with stopping whatever job I am doing to sharpen, so I want a steel that stays sharp forever (welcome to fantasy island :)), sharpens to a good cutting edge relatively easily, and has that edge stability and toughness that reduces risk of damage when cutting dirty material. I don't need my knife to be a prybar, but I appreciate toughness for reducing risk of damage.
I have the Mili in 90V, 204p, Cruwear, M4, and 52100. I do not have s110V because I thought 90V was good enough for holding an edge. I always liked M4 and thought it was a good compromise between 90V and 3V (not available in the Mili, but I have it in other blades, including the Tuff). M4 holds an edge better than the 3V I have, but not as well as 90V. Then I got and fell in love with Cruwear, which for me has the best of all worlds, among the steels the Mili and PM2 are made in. I have the 52100, but don't think it holds an edge as well as the Cruwear. So Cruwear is my top choice. I would definitely buy a 3V if spyderco made one, though.

[Ruudr]

Check out the heat treatment by ``Peters Heat threating`` Guy Seiferd uses on the 3V in his Survive! Knives line up. I´ve got the GS= 4.1 in 3V and it is on of the most forgiving blade steels I ever used. Due to the heat treatment he uses it is also fairly corrosion resistant. I would buy a 3V knife form Spyderco with the PHT treatment.

[Deadboxhero]

Check out the heat treatment by ``Peters Heat threating`` Guy Seiferd uses on the 3V in his Survive! Knives line up. I´ve got the GS= 4.1 in 3V and it is on of the most forgiving blade steels I ever used. Due to the heat treatment he uses it is also fairly corrosion resistant. I would buy a 3V knife form Spyderco with the PHT treatment.

That's Nathans "Delta" protocol he formulated with Brad at PHT.
Guy uses it.

If I could swing my Pm2 like an axe I'd like 3v, all that toughness doesn't translate over to more edge holding on a small knife though so why not get similar toughness with more strength and wear resistance.

Cruwear and 4v baby

[Deadboxhero]

I feel like the logic "X steel should never be offered because Y steel does what X does, but better" has no end. And if that logic were actually followed, spyderco wouldn't have so many different steels in a single model.

The idea of the 3v knife is just that one you would grab when you encounter a situation where there's no way you'd use your average spyderco sprint run knife. The types of situations where decent force (but not more than a folder can handle) is needed for a cut and the blade is likely to make contact with something that will cause severe edge damage. Some of us have jobs where situations like this are unavoidable and would really value a workhorse knife we aren't afraid to pull out for the toughest scenarios.

An example that MAY highlight the kind of edge damage I'm describing:

If I had a pm2 sharpened at 30 inclusive and I was whittling a 2x4 with moderate force and struck a hidden nail, which steel would yield the least damage to the edge?

3V, 4V, Cruwear, M4, or 52100?

Rockwell hardness aside, I suppose it would matter at what speed you struck the nail, as I'm inclined to believe 3v and 52100 would do better if the nail was struck quickly.

So as you can see my concern is simply preventing edge damage. A hard work knife that can take some abuse (within the limits of a folder). Is 3V simply a bad choice for this? Are the other steels I listed above THAT much better?

This is a huge oversimplification, but I was under the impression that 3v has better wear resistance, edge retention, and corrosion resistance than 52100, with toughness being close. People seem to love 52100. I do understand that for most people's uses 3v simply isn't the best choice. But the same could be said for s110v. Hopefully this clears up some of what I do understand as well as what I don't understand.

Its not that 3v is a bad choice, it's just not the best choice if we have 4v or cruwear as an option.
People dont realize they aren't losing much toughness.

My experience comes from providing CPM steels for Malanika Puukkos which are small wood carving, Bushcraft blades. People would BEG for 3v.

The problem is I couldn't give in to their demands because they didn't understand what they were asking for, they are excited about the REPUTATION the steel has while I had to make choices about the REALITY of the material rather then it's perception.

3v on a blade at 60hrc doesn't have the strength to support a 0.010" edge for woodcraft. Its not that it was horrible, it's just it would roll and blunt sooner in actual use.

That malleablity and ductility that makes for excellent impact toughness is completely lost on a small knife.
The impact toughness doesn't translate directly to edge stability

4v was clearly a better choice and just as tough as it needs to be even at 64hrc, which translated to MORE edge stability if you define edge stability as the edge holding it's shape under extreme stress which includes NO ROLLING

If 3v and 4v we're both at 62hrc..

4v would still be the winner if your using extreme geometries <0.010" behind edge.
Because if one edge rolls and the other does not with the same stress. The the one that holds it's shape is the winner.


That's why Jim Ankersons Knife is so exciting HE gets it.
We get the strength for thinner geometry AND the toughness.

If Spyderco made a 3v pm2 they would make money regardless, but Darby (Bearfacedkiller) NAILED it in his post.

Think geometry not steel if you want durability

You have to remember that cold chisel and metal cutting shears don't use legendary steel.

They use thick geometry at the edge and behind the edges since they aren't cutting but sheering and chiseling.

So if people are using there knives with disregard to what the edge makes contact with then Beef up the edge, having 3v isn't going to solve geometry. 3v will go insta dull and blunt if used on ceramic or if your trimming material with the tip running on metal just like any other knife steel.

MMG renovations and other have mentioned that 52100 isn't appropriate in a folder.
I wouldn't say that.
It's not very wear resistant but alot of guys like to polish there edges which reduces the aggression and wear endurance.
If your polishing your edges, 52100 might make you really happy.






.

[Pelagic]

I don't see 3v's properties as extremely beneficial for the typical intended uses of a folder, just the "oops" situations encountered during harder use.

Very few steels can truly be considered "ideal" for intended uses. You never know what you may need a knife for, and the vast majority of the time we aren't using the absolutely perfect steel for what we're cutting (nor is it anywhere near necessary). And of course, what is beneficial to one user is often a waste to another.

3v seems to have a slight edge on s30v in several cutting tests (Cedric & Ada's being one). In no way am I saying this is conclusive evidence as there are a ton of variables at play, but this does suggest (imo) that it isn't a BAD choice. Toughness may seem like a waste to most people, but that's the worst it could be (a waste). Toughness objectively isn't a bad thing. It could be argued that s110v is better than s90v in virtually every way, but the existence of s110v does not make s90v a BAD steel choice.

I only personally know how it performs in a Cold Steel Master Hunter, and a Cold Steel AK-47 Field Knife. The Master Hunter is far from a chopper, and an excellent cutting tool in my opinion. I'd be very interested in seeing what Spyderco could do with it. I realize it will most likely not happen, and that's fine. But i know a lot of people are curious enough to buy one as well.

[Pelagic]

I feel like the logic "X steel should never be offered because Y steel does what X does, but better" has no end. And if that logic were actually followed, spyderco wouldn't have so many different steels in a single model.

The idea of the 3v knife is just that one you would grab when you encounter a situation where there's no way you'd use your average spyderco sprint run knife. The types of situations where decent force (but not more than a folder can handle) is needed for a cut and the blade is likely to make contact with something that will cause severe edge damage. Some of us have jobs where situations like this are unavoidable and would really value a workhorse knife we aren't afraid to pull out for the toughest scenarios.

An example that MAY highlight the kind of edge damage I'm describing:

If I had a pm2 sharpened at 30 inclusive and I was whittling a 2x4 with moderate force and struck a hidden nail, which steel would yield the least damage to the edge?

3V, 4V, Cruwear, M4, or 52100?

Rockwell hardness aside, I suppose it would matter at what speed you struck the nail, as I'm inclined to believe 3v and 52100 would do better if the nail was struck quickly.

So as you can see my concern is simply preventing edge damage. A hard work knife that can take some abuse (within the limits of a folder). Is 3V simply a bad choice for this? Are the other steels I listed above THAT much better?

This is a huge oversimplification, but I was under the impression that 3v has better wear resistance, edge retention, and corrosion resistance than 52100, with toughness being close. People seem to love 52100. I do understand that for most people's uses 3v simply isn't the best choice. But the same could be said for s110v. Hopefully this clears up some of what I do understand as well as what I don't understand.

Its not that 3v is a bad choice, it's just not the best choice if we have 4v or cruwear as an option.
People dont realize they aren't losing much toughness.

My experience comes from providing CPM steels for Malanika Puukkos which are small wood carving, Bushcraft blades. People would BEG for 3v.

The problem is I couldn't give in to their demands because they didn't understand what they were asking for, they are excited about the REPUTATION the steel has while I had to make choices about the REALITY of the material rather then it's perception.

3v on a blade at 60hrc doesn't have the strength to support a 0.010" edge for woodcraft. Its not that it was horrible, it's just it would roll and blunt sooner in actual use.

That malleablity and ductility that makes for excellent impact toughness is completely lost on a small knife.
The impact toughness doesn't translate directly to edge stability

4v was clearly a better choice and just as tough as it needs to be even at 64hrc, which translated to MORE edge stability if you define edge stability as the edge holding it's shape under extreme stress which includes NO ROLLING

If 3v and 4v we're both at 62hrc..

4v would still be the winner if your using extreme geometries <0.010" behind edge.
Because if one edge rolls and the other does not with the same stress. The the one that holds it's shape is the winner.


That's why Jim Ankersons Knife is so exciting HE gets it.
We get the strength for thinner geometry AND the toughness.

If Spyderco made a 3v pm2 they would make money regardless, but Darby (Bearfacedkiller) NAILED it in his post.

Think geometry not steel if you want durability

You have to remember that cold chisel and metal cutting shears don't use legendary steel.

They use thick geometry at the edge and behind the edges since they aren't cutting but sheering and chiseling.

So if people are using there knives with disregard to what the edge makes contact with then Beef up the edge, having 3v isn't going to solve geometry. 3v will go insta dull and blunt if used on ceramic or if your trimming material with the tip running on metal just like any other knife steel.

MMG renovations and other have mentioned that 52100 isn't appropriate in a folder.
I wouldn't say that.
It's not very wear resistant but alot of guys like to polish there edges which reduces the aggression and wear endurance.
If your polishing your edges, 52100 might make you really happy.






.

I understand your points and I appreciate you taking the time to help me see things from your viewpoint. I know most people agree that geometry means much more than steel, but the same people are extremely passionate about choosing the steels that perform the best.

[steelcity16]

I agree that the properties of Cruwear and 4V are probably more appropriate for a folder than 3V, and thats great, and I have a few Cruwear, it is my favorite Spyderco steel I own, and want more Cruwear (when are we getting a Cruwear Native and Shaman????), and want 4V in every Golden Made folder as well. :P

I just think 3V is a very interesting steel and I enjoy it in fixed blades and would love to see what Spyderco can come up with to get it into folder format (i know they did the TUFF, but that didnt appeal to me). I don't think anyone is suggesting that they have 3V as a production steel, but a sprint of 3V in any of their popular Golden made folders would allow everyone to test it out and judge for themselves. And a single sprint run of 1200 in 3V would certainly sell out quickly. Pretty sure there is A LOT of pent up demand for a 3V folder, especially outside of our little bubble here.

Hoping they will give it a shot!

[Deadboxhero]

Check this out
This was the steel I had heat treated by Brad to 64 HRC with a Cryo treatment and sent to Danjiel at Malanika.

This is Josey's (Twindogs) knife he bought when I sold a limited batch for Malanika on bladeforums

It broke my heart to see it tested like this since these are very special.

But facinating to see. He chopped bailing wire and this was the damage, No chipping






This was the thinnest, hardest knife used in the test and the only knife that separated the bailing wire.

He measureed 0.006" behind the almost invisible 20dps microbevel shoulder. (a PM2 is about 0.020" behind a 15dps)

So you can see the advantages of 4v on a small thin knife, we dont lose much in toughness.

I understand your points and I appreciate you taking the time to help me see things from your viewpoint. I know most people agree that geometry means much more than steel, but the same people are extremely passionate about choosing the steels that perform the best.

[dogrunner]

Check this out
This was the steel I had heat treated by Brad to 64 HRC with a Cryo treatment and sent to Danjiel at Malanika.

This is Josey's (Twindogs) knife he bought when I sold a limited batch for Malanika on bladeforums

It broke my heart to see it tested like this since these are very special.

But facinating to see. He chopped bailing wire and this was the damage, No chipping
..
This was the thinnest, hardest knife used in the test and the only knife that separated the bailing wire.

He measureed 0.006" behind the almost invisible 20dps microbevel shoulder. (a PM2 is about 0.020" behind a 15dps)

So you can see the advantages of 4v on a small thin knife, we dont lose much in toughness.

I understand your points and I appreciate you taking the time to help me see things from your viewpoint. I know most people agree that geometry means much more than steel, but the same people are extremely passionate about choosing the steels that perform the best.

DBH - Did he have one of the M4 and test that too? Just curious. I was fortunate to get one of the M4s but did not have the funds when you ran the 4Vs. I did pick up a 4V Sanders/Ankerson custom and love it! Pretty cool Spyderco is putting that into production and still using 4V.

[Deadboxhero]

I agree that the properties of Cruwear and 4V are probably more appropriate for a folder than 3V, and thats great, and I have a few Cruwear, it is my favorite Spyderco steel I own, and want more Cruwear (when are we getting a Cruwear Native and Shaman????), and want 4V in every Golden Made folder as well. :P

I just think 3V is a very interesting steel and I enjoy it in fixed blades and would love to see what Spyderco can come up with to get it into folder format (i know they did the TUFF, but that didnt appeal to me). I don't think anyone is suggesting that they have 3V as a production steel, but a sprint of 3V in any of their popular Golden made folders would allow everyone to test it out and judge for themselves. And a single sprint run of 1200 in 3V would certainly sell out quickly. Pretty sure there is A LOT of pent up demand for a 3V folder, especially outside of our little bubble here.

Hoping they will give it a shot!

I'm sure they'll give it a shot just thought Id share my perspective and speculation as to why we don't see ANY companies making a 3v folder.
Doesn't mean it won't sell or people won't be happy if they had one.

People definitely like variation, so do I

Personally I don't think I'll ever buy, make, sell or desire a small knife in 3v knowing what's available and having an idea of the reality versus the what people hear based on popularity.
4V and Cruwear don't have the fanfare 3V has yet.

Of course if they made one I'd probably eat my words.

I'm a Spyderco freak!

Any excuse to try something different is okay with me hahaha.

[Deadboxhero]

Check this out
This was the steel I had heat treated by Brad to 64 HRC with a Cryo treatment and sent to Danjiel at Malanika.

This is Josey's (Twindogs) knife he bought when I sold a limited batch for Malanika on bladeforums

It broke my heart to see it tested like this since these are very special.

But facinating to see. He chopped bailing wire and this was the damage, No chipping
..
This was the thinnest, hardest knife used in the test and the only knife that separated the bailing wire.

He measureed 0.006" behind the almost invisible 20dps microbevel shoulder. (a PM2 is about 0.020" behind a 15dps)

So you can see the advantages of 4v on a small thin knife, we dont lose much in toughness.

I understand your points and I appreciate you taking the time to help me see things from your viewpoint. I know most people agree that geometry means much more than steel, but the same people are extremely passionate about choosing the steels that perform the best.

DBH - Did he have one of the M4 and test that too? Just curious. I was fortunate to get one of the M4s but did not have the funds when you ran the 4Vs. I did pick up a 4V Sanders/Ankerson custom and love it! Pretty cool Spyderco is putting that into production and still using 4V.

He did not,
The M4 was 63hrc. Definitely not as tough as 4v but takes a much more aggressive edge.
With working with Danjiel, we found Cruwear at 62-63hrc to have the best blend of properties between M4 and 4V.

[MMGRenovations]

I feel like the logic "X steel should never be offered because Y steel does what X does, but better" has no end. And if that logic were actually followed, spyderco wouldn't have so many different steels in a single model.

The idea of the 3v knife is just that one you would grab when you encounter a situation where there's no way you'd use your average spyderco sprint run knife. The types of situations where decent force (but not more than a folder can handle) is needed for a cut and the blade is likely to make contact with something that will cause severe edge damage. Some of us have jobs where situations like this are unavoidable and would really value a workhorse knife we aren't afraid to pull out for the toughest scenarios.

An example that MAY highlight the kind of edge damage I'm describing:

If I had a pm2 sharpened at 30 inclusive and I was whittling a 2x4 with moderate force and struck a hidden nail, which steel would yield the least damage to the edge?

3V, 4V, Cruwear, M4, or 52100?

Rockwell hardness aside, I suppose it would matter at what speed you struck the nail, as I'm inclined to believe 3v and 52100 would do better if the nail was struck quickly.

So as you can see my concern is simply preventing edge damage. A hard work knife that can take some abuse (within the limits of a folder). Is 3V simply a bad choice for this? Are the other steels I listed above THAT much better?

This is a huge oversimplification, but I was under the impression that 3v has better wear resistance, edge retention, and corrosion resistance than 52100, with toughness being close. People seem to love 52100. I do understand that for most people's uses 3v simply isn't the best choice. But the same could be said for s110v. Hopefully this clears up some of what I do understand as well as what I don't understand.

Its not that 3v is a bad choice, it's just not the best choice if we have 4v or cruwear as an option.
People dont realize they aren't losing much toughness.

My experience comes from providing CPM steels for Malanika Puukkos which are small wood carving, Bushcraft blades. People would BEG for 3v.

The problem is I couldn't give in to their demands because they didn't understand what they were asking for, they are excited about the REPUTATION the steel has while I had to make choices about the REALITY of the material rather then it's perception.

3v on a blade at 60hrc doesn't have the strength to support a 0.010" edge for woodcraft. Its not that it was horrible, it's just it would roll and blunt sooner in actual use.

That malleablity and ductility that makes for excellent impact toughness is completely lost on a small knife.
The impact toughness doesn't translate directly to edge stability

4v was clearly a better choice and just as tough as it needs to be even at 64hrc, which translated to MORE edge stability if you define edge stability as the edge holding it's shape under extreme stress which includes NO ROLLING

If 3v and 4v we're both at 62hrc..

4v would still be the winner if your using extreme geometries <0.010" behind edge.
Because if one edge rolls and the other does not with the same stress. The the one that holds it's shape is the winner.


That's why Jim Ankersons Knife is so exciting HE gets it.
We get the strength for thinner geometry AND the toughness.

If Spyderco made a 3v pm2 they would make money regardless, but Darby (Bearfacedkiller) NAILED it in his post.

Think geometry not steel if you want durability

You have to remember that cold chisel and metal cutting shears don't use legendary steel.

They use thick geometry at the edge and behind the edges since they aren't cutting but sheering and chiseling.

So if people are using there knives with disregard to what the edge makes contact with then Beef up the edge, having 3v isn't going to solve geometry. 3v will go insta dull and blunt if used on ceramic or if your trimming material with the tip running on metal just like any other knife steel.

MMG renovations and other have mentioned that 52100 isn't appropriate in a folder.
I wouldn't say that.
It's not very wear resistant but alot of guys like to polish there edges which reduces the aggression and wear endurance.
If your polishing your edges, 52100 might make you really happy.






.

I guess I should have made my post a little more clear. Others had mentioned they don’t think 52100 is appropriate but I do think 52100 is appropriate for a folder. I really enjoy a polished edge and the way it feels when I cut wood. For more abrasive materials I don’t like it so much.

[Deadboxhero]

MMG renovations,

Yup, I agree man. It's not bad for abrasive media with a toothy edge but there is just more to choose from that work better for that and don't rust on a folder.

I still love 52100 though.

[steelcity16]

Bumping this up as a direct competitor of Spyderco will be releasing a PRODUCTION CPM-3V folder later this month. They were wise enough to see past the haters who say 3V should only be used in fixed blade tree choppers and folders should be reserved for steels with insane wear resistance only. Just because there are a few people who loudly voice their disapproval doesn't mean that there aren't a thousand people out there who have been waiting for this for years and are ready to rain $$$$ upon this concept.

The time has come for some Spyderco exclusives in CPM-3V. The market for "tough steels" in a folder is ready and waiting with fistfuls of dollars. There are already models available like the Native (G10 and LW), Military, Shaman, Manix XL, and upcoming Chief that would be perfect for 3V (and 4V as well). Not to mention the Para 3 and PM2 that would be instant sell-outs based on their loyal following alone, let alone the new steel. Heck, even the Lil Native Comp Lock would be a great choice with that stout little blade. The thing is a mini-tank and deserves a steel like 3V.

I am issuing my challenge to dealers now. Pick a good neutral solid color of peel ply textured G10 (not smooth, no weird marbling, no carbon fiber) in the green/brown/gray/black family. Pick some of the models I listed above. Throw some CPM-3V blades in there with half in stonewash and half in DLC. Then watch every release sell out in minutes.

If you build it...they will come...