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AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 2:53 pm
by ZrowsN1s
Evil D made an excellent suggestion in another thread....
Evil D wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 9:02 am
...... I would love it if there were either sprints or separate production variants for AFI's, blades with thinner stock and thinner grinds aimed at higher performance for those who don't dismantle cars with their pocket knives.....
I am so on board with this idea.

A delica or other model that is actually heat treat optimized and ground to maximize the performance and potential of a particular steel. With the knowledge that this means you can't use the knife as a screwdriver/prybar/hammer, but rather only as a high performance cutting tool.

Who's in?

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 3:34 pm
by mattman
In.
I've mentioned a few times that I'd like to see a "Sprint" of the Delica with the old "splinter-picker" tip. (I know I can grind my own)

I think the team could come up with some awesome *spec* versions for the AFI crowd... I'm thinking "Grind Sprints", instead of "Steel Sprints"... Let's keep the current steels, and vary the geometry and/or heat-treat...

All releases with the necessary disclaimers...

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 3:55 pm
by tvenuto
Please define “performance.” This is not sarcasm or baiting.

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 4:08 pm
by Evil D
tvenuto wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 3:55 pm
Please define “performance.” This is not sarcasm or baiting.

Thinner behind the edge was what I had in mind. I paid $90 on top of the cost of my S110V Military and Manix 2, and I know I'm not the only one who would want something like this or regrinds wouldn't exist.

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 4:23 pm
by The Meat man
I'll support this idea for the sake of my fellow knife aficionados, but personally, I find the Spyderco factory grinds to be more than sufficient for my uses.

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 4:32 pm
by xceptnl
As the proud owner of a Phil Wilson custom that has been produced to the extreme of what S110V can be, I would SO BE ON BOARD WITH THIS IDEA. Push the hardness limits and thin down some 2.5mm stock with a distal taper, an AFI knife sold with full disclaimer. How about a P4 or Military?

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 4:44 pm
by dj moonbat
I'd love it, but I can see how factory "re"grinds might pose problems for warranties. If some third party runs the blade that thin, it's not Spyderco's fault if something happens to it during more-or-less normal use.

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 4:46 pm
by Evil D
dj moonbat wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 4:44 pm
I'd love it, but I can see how factory "re"grinds might pose problems for warranties. If some third party runs the blade that thin, it's not their fault if something happens to it during more-or-less normal use.

It just take a mutual understanding of intended use. It's working with the Civilian, nobody is out cutting carpet with a Civilian.


Ok let me take that back I'm sure someone is but if they break the tip off I'm not sure Spyderco will cover it.

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 4:54 pm
by dj moonbat
If an ongoing Slicer Sprint project were to happen, I'd probably buy nothing else. Especially if they also varied the heat treating for afi tastes. But I feel like I'm fairly rare among consumers in that sometimes I think things are my fault.

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 4:59 pm
by Sharp Guy
The Meat man wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 4:23 pm
I'll support this idea for the sake of my fellow knife aficionados, but personally, I find the Spyderco factory grinds to be more than sufficient for my uses.
I'm with you MM! I've been pretty happy with how all my Spydies perform. I've improved some by reprofiling the edge to a more acute angle but I never thought a total regrind was necessary. I might be interested in a performance flash batch but I guess it would depend on what it is and how much it costs.

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 5:02 pm
by Archimedes
I am in if I can pry with it. :D

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 5:27 pm
by ZrowsN1s
Archimedes wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 5:02 pm
I am in if I can pry with it. :D
Oddly enough while they are making sprints optimized for slicing, I see no reason why you couldn't do one optimized for toughness that you could use to pry cans open with. It's all about what there's a demand for. I think more people want slicers though.

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 5:33 pm
by dj moonbat
ZrowsN1s wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 5:27 pm
Archimedes wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 5:02 pm
I am in if I can pry with it. :D
Oddly enough while they are making sprints optimized for slicing, I see no reason why you couldn't do one optimized for toughness that you could use to pry cans open with. It's all about what there's a demand for. I think more people want slicers though.
Wait, wut? This is already happening, and nobody told me?

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 6:22 pm
by mattman
The Meat man wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 4:23 pm
I'll support this idea for the sake of my fellow knife aficionados, but personally, I find the Spyderco factory grinds to be more than sufficient for my uses.
Don't get me wrong, I am *perfectly* happy with all my examples... But more of a good thing intrigues me!

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 6:45 pm
by tvenuto
Evil D wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 4:08 pm
Thinner behind the edge was what I had in mind. I paid $90 on top of the cost of my S110V Military and Manix 2, and I know I'm not the only one who would want something like this or regrinds wouldn't exist.
So slicing ability through relatively soft, consistent, and abrasive media, with low side loading, the primary blunting mechanism being abrasive wear.

I mainly asked because the OP stated an optimized geometry and heat treat, which isn't really a straightforward request. Knives blunt through several different mechanisms, and real world conditions will include some side loading of the edge.

I voted yes in the poll, mostly because I think this is an interesting thing for a knife company to do. Although in some ways spyderco has already done this to a degree. There are sabre ground delicas and there are FFG delicas, and there are other examples of knives that have had multiple blade geometries. I can see the desire to get something a bit thinner and more extreme, although I wouldn't personally be buying one. I have a wide variety of cutting tasks and want my delica to handle all of it (which they all have).

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 6:51 pm
by ZrowsN1s
dj moonbat wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 5:33 pm
ZrowsN1s wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 5:27 pm
Archimedes wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 5:02 pm
I am in if I can pry with it. :D
Oddly enough while they are making sprints optimized for slicing, I see no reason why you couldn't do one optimized for toughness that you could use to pry cans open with. It's all about what there's a demand for. I think more people want slicers though.
Wait, wut? This is already happening, and nobody told me?
*I should have said IF, sorry didn't mean to get your hopes up.

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 6:53 pm
by Evil D
tvenuto wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 6:45 pm
Evil D wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 4:08 pm
Thinner behind the edge was what I had in mind. I paid $90 on top of the cost of my S110V Military and Manix 2, and I know I'm not the only one who would want something like this or regrinds wouldn't exist.
So slicing ability through relatively soft, consistent, and abrasive media, with low side loading, the primary blunting mechanism being abrasive wear.

I mainly asked because the OP stated an optimized geometry and heat treat, which isn't really a straightforward request. Knives blunt through several different mechanisms, and real world conditions will include some side loading of the edge.

I voted yes in the poll, mostly because I think this is an interesting thing for a knife company to do. Although in some ways spyderco has already done this to a degree. There are sabre ground delicas and there are FFG delicas, and there are other examples of knives that have had multiple blade geometries. I can see the desire to get something a bit thinner and more extreme, although I wouldn't personally be buying one. I have a wide variety of cutting tasks and want my delica to handle all of it (which they all have).


Nobody is suggesting they change the entire lineup to this. This is why a flash batch or small limited run would be a good idea. It won't appeal to everyone but it would be fun to play with. I think you're looking way off to the far end of the spectrum. You don't need to thin out a Delica so much that it snaps the blade off if you give it lateral force, and the question of how much is too much is dependent on the use since lateral force can break anything if there's enough of it. All I'm asking for are thinner blades, not so thin that they can only be used to slice tomatoes but thinner than we have now. There is quite a bit of room for improvement without making a knife outright fragile.

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 7:04 pm
by zhyla
I would rather see a model that specializes in sliciness. I doubt customer service wants to ask every customer which type of Delica or whatever they bought.

It seems like most models could stand to be a little thinner behind the edge though. There may be a production aspect that influences that.

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 7:05 pm
by Surfingringo
Evil D wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 6:53 pm
tvenuto wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 6:45 pm
Evil D wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 4:08 pm
Thinner behind the edge was what I had in mind. I paid $90 on top of the cost of my S110V Military and Manix 2, and I know I'm not the only one who would want something like this or regrinds wouldn't exist.
So slicing ability through relatively soft, consistent, and abrasive media, with low side loading, the primary blunting mechanism being abrasive wear.

I mainly asked because the OP stated an optimized geometry and heat treat, which isn't really a straightforward request. Knives blunt through several different mechanisms, and real world conditions will include some side loading of the edge.

I voted yes in the poll, mostly because I think this is an interesting thing for a knife company to do. Although in some ways spyderco has already done this to a degree. There are sabre ground delicas and there are FFG delicas, and there are other examples of knives that have had multiple blade geometries. I can see the desire to get something a bit thinner and more extreme, although I wouldn't personally be buying one. I have a wide variety of cutting tasks and want my delica to handle all of it (which they all have).


Nobody is suggesting they change the entire lineup to this. This is why a flash batch or small limited run would be a good idea. It won't appeal to everyone but it would be fun to play with. I think you're looking way off to the far end of the spectrum. You don't need to thin out a Delica so much that it snaps the blade off if you give it lateral force, and the question of how much is too much is dependent on the use since lateral force can break anything if there's enough of it. All I'm asking for are thinner blades, not so thin that they can only be used to slice tomatoes but thinner than we have now. There is quite a bit of room for improvement without making a knife outright fragile.
This exactly. ^

I understand why they grind their production knives the way they do but I would definitely be interested in a sprint with a thinner grind. If they made a Millie, Manix and Pm2 with a thinner grind (say 10-12 thousandths behind the edge) I would probably buy one of each. I have several customs (that all see hard use) that are that thin or thinner and have never had any edge damage issues.

Re: AFI Performance Flash Batch

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 7:43 pm
by tvenuto
Evil D wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 6:53 pm
Nobody is suggesting they change the entire lineup to this. This is why a flash batch or small limited run would be a good idea. It won't appeal to everyone but it would be fun to play with. I think you're looking way off to the far end of the spectrum. You don't need to thin out a Delica so much that it snaps the blade off if you give it lateral force, and the question of how much is too much is dependent on the use since lateral force can break anything if there's enough of it. All I'm asking for are thinner blades, not so thin that they can only be used to slice tomatoes but thinner than we have now. There is quite a bit of room for improvement without making a knife outright fragile.
I’m tracking, and like I said it’s a fine idea. I just encounter my share of staples and odd tasks, and I haven’t had any issues cutting with the way they’re ground as is. And don’t misunderstand me, I’m certainly not worried about gross failures of the blade. But if I’m happy with the cutting performance as is, then thinning buys me nothing and only increases the likelihood that I lose sharpness via chipping. Just like if your knives aren’t rusting, then more corrosion resistance doesn’t buy you anything and might cost you somewhere else. Do I like that Spyderco pushes the boundaries of corrosion resistance? Yes. And I can see why others would want to push edge/grind geometry. So same team, I voted yes (just probably wouldn’t buy).