Spyderco Forums

Evil D wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:49 am

sal wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:56 pm

This is an addition to the discussion on the "plea" thread. Probably better off with the this one as it has more suggestions. I would suggest a non stainless steel to hold a really thin edge. We've tried zero grinds and ended up with edge deformation and breakout, so this has to be thought out more carefully. Maybe a Delica in Super Blue with an edge thickness of .010?

sal

This is probably asking for too much but how about a 52100 Nilakka?

Oh no Evil that's a wonderful suggestion lol, I'll take anything in 52100 :cool:
And a SOLID Superblue Delica would be the first Delica I'd ever buy!

Just wanted to throw into the whole conversation that in addition to paying extra for this afi/performance package(push the hardness, thin the grind) I'd be happy to waive the blade warranty as well. "Making knives is all about tradeoffs.This blade has been pushed to the maximum level of cutting performance. This can only be achieved by sacrificing some durability. For us to be able to produce these groundbreaking models for our customers, some responsibility has to be passed on to the knife user. For those reasons, we will not be able to replace broken blades on afi/performance versions of our knives. Our standard, more balanced models will continue to carry the same great warranty." Or something to that effect.

I voted yes for a couple of reasons. One is that if Spyderco did this, it would just be exciting to see this kind of effort to please a small group of nut cases. Two is that I would like to get one of these just to round out my education. The suggestion of doing this with 52100 gets me even more interested.

I have no idea how this could/would be handled -- but I'll leave that to better minds at Spyderco. As someone said, I am one of the rare sort of consumers that sometimes accepts that certain things are "on me". Maybe purchases would somehow accept special terms that acknowledge that usual warranty issues would not apply or something, though that would probably be both worthless and impossible (there is a combination for you).

Better minds than mine are suggesting AEB-L. I would not know what to do with myself if this was done with Rex-45. 52100 still sounds great.

I vote for a Golden Model, PM2 my first choice by far. No backlock models please.

Chris_P_Bacon wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:39 pm

Calicoast wrote: ↑

Thu May 31, 2018 8:51 pm

I like to go on hikes, fishing, etc. When I get the time to go out, I will bring my four dogs titanium biomass stick stove with me to boil water

I get that your dogs have really cool names, but, how did you train them to boil water?

I have a stick stove myself, but my dogs don't have a clue how to use it.

I just noticed this thread is like a YEAR old, well I guess if it has come back to life I am OK with jumping on board.

From the other “plea” thread.

sal wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:52 pm

Hi DirtMcGirt,

Thought about it, but haven't done it. Made a G.Sakai fixed blade years ago with a high hollow. A Delica with a high hollow would be interesting? It has a 2.5mm blade thickness.

sal

I also think the stock delica VG-10 would see a huge performance upgrade with the high/full hollow. No need for a steel upgrade. Only a different color for the frn maybe? White or ivory maybe? Just to differentiate it as an AFI run. Perhaps that could keep the risk and/or production cost low enough to make this as feasible as possible. I would still pay a big premium for it over a stock flat/Sabre delica though even with “only” vg-10(a favorite of mine, and many, many others too)

DirtMcGirt wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:43 pm

I also think the stock delica VG-10 would see a huge performance upgrade with the high/full hollow. No need for a steel upgrade...

If the HRC Database thread is correct, then the VG-10 out of Seki tests at about 58. If seen anecdotes that VG-10 can go up to 62. If you are going for a thin grind on thin stock, maybe keep the hardness around 60, 61. Still, I'd love to see VG-10 tweaked a bit for the afi crowd.

p_atrick wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:32 pm

DirtMcGirt wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:43 pm

I also think the stock delica VG-10 would see a huge performance upgrade with the high/full hollow. No need for a steel upgrade...

If the HRC Database thread is correct, then the VG-10 out of Seki tests at about 58. If seen anecdotes that VG-10 can go up to 62. If you are going for a thin grind on thin stock, maybe keep the hardness around 60, 61. Still, I'd love to see VG-10 tweaked a bit for the afi crowd.

Ditto on the tweaking the vg10 HT/HRC for said AFI run.

What I’m going for is not just a thin BTE blade. But the ability to keep that blade the same BTE thinness consistent through tons of sharpenings.

What it really sometimes comes down to User use. Everyone has different expectations with some views not being realistic to what the limits acutually are. While durability focus has it's place, the truth of the matter is that thinner cuts better and longer but is limited by who is using it and how.

I feel knives should be as thin as a particular user can handle but that's different things to different people.

One should ask, should the geometry make up for the lack of judicious use and leave huge amounts of cutting performance on the table? Or should the Performance be maximized and alienate those that want to use a knife to not like a knife for chiseling, twisting, prying?

There is no answer to that, different flavors for different tastes.

Personally, I'm more biased towards thin as possible because it's not really something folks can buy or experience and the performance for cutting is insane. After all, isn't a knife made for cutting?

I understand why it's not prominent and widely available, personalIy speaking, It costs more for me to do and takes more time and skill to do.

Also, more headaches if it's in the wrong hands with ridiculous expectations.

It's a lot safer and less cost to go thicker so the knife industry is more geared towards that. That's the world we live in.

What makes Spyderco so unique was Sal's vision to build the knife around a 15 °dps, 30° inclusive edge angle with mimimum necessary thicknesses (stock and behind the edge) to support that edge geometry for a vast audience of users with widely varying expectations.
Brilliant, Performance starts at the edge after all.

I like to take it a step further and remove the "training wheels" with regrinds, however, there are a lot more folks that need thicker geometry. Thinner geometry is a luxury outside of specific use knives.


Personally, the thinner the better and I'm talking about behind the edge thickness, not just stock/spine thickness.

Why?

The Performance from thinner cross section starts behind the edge. Knives are a wedge cross section, so thinner wedge behind that edge is best. So combine thin edge angle with thin behind the edge width and you have a laser. Less wedging.


I honestly feel that cutting performance is basically fixed unless folks can step up to handling thinner knives.

So the combination is

1. Judicious use
2. Thin geometry
3. Good HT, high strength focus to support thin geometry.
3. Steels that have the chemistry for supporting good hardness levels +60rc, higher carbide volume means more skilled users.

If durability is the only focus than

1. Geometry, go thick.
2. HT, go soft.
3. Steel, reduce carbide volume.

So nothing special if raw durability is the focus. I feel just use the knife better and reap the rewards but there is nothing wrong with wanting durability just understand the compromises of both.

sal wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:56 pm

....... Maybe a Delica in Super Blue with an edge thickness of .010?

sal

I like that idea a lot Sal

Deadboxhero wrote: .........
The Performance from thinner cross section starts behind the edge. Knives are a wedge cross section, so thinner wedge behind that edge is best. So combine thin edge angle with thin behind the edge width and you have a laser. Less wedging.


I honestly feel that cutting performance is basically fixed unless folks can step up to handling thinner knives.

So the combination is

1. Judicious use
2. Thin geometry
3. Good HT, high strength focus to support thin geometry.
3. Steels that have the chemistry for supporting good hardness levels +60rc, higher carbide volume means more skilled users.
.........

Exactly BBB well said. I hope you know that you and Evil D inspired this thread brother :D

I like everything I'm seeing evolving here!!

The Salt 1 is a Delica with a hollow that performs well. Don't think the hollow can be much higher without going into the opening hole, which might be ok for this model?

sal

sal wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:56 pm

Maybe a Delica in Super Blue with an edge thickness of .010?

sal

Yes please! I would be all over this!

A bit late to the párty, byť oh well.
I like this idea. Once upon a tíme I put like 17 degrees inclusive on my beater Boker folder that has a hollow grind. Man, that thing is scary sharp and like others have said, when you have thing geometry, event dull the knife will still cut.
But... I want a handle, so maybe something bigger then Delica? Maybe Manix LW in AEL-B?

I voted yes. But if your really wanting a knife of such thin levels, you would have to go with a steel that doesnt have an occupancy level within the matrix to make it brittle while at the same time not have so little composition within the matrix that it would bend like a coat hanger Plus have a heat treatment that would allow it to flex back to true if it were to be flexed

I would be very happy to see a high hollow (even if it gets into the opener) or flat ground blade with this extra level of geometry refinement. Superblue…. obviously, though I would like any other non-stainless as well. Part of me wishes we could get a long slicey knife in the Catcherman like handle. The old MBS-26 versions in 1.8mm stock were slicers even when less than sharp. That or something of similar stock would be an AFI dream.

sal wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:30 am

The Salt 1 is a Delica with a hollow that performs well. Don't think the hollow can be much higher without going into the opening hole, which might be ok for this model?

sal

I wouldn't mind the hollow grind going into the opening hole. For me this is all about performance :D

It would be cool to have a hollow grind, I've seen plenty of .010 bte regrinds, but none with a hollow grind.

ZrowsN1s wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:57 pm

sal wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:30 am

The Salt 1 is a Delica with a hollow that performs well. Don't think the hollow can be much higher without going into the opening hole, which might be ok for this model?

sal

I wouldn't mind the hollow grind going into the opening hole. For me this is all about performance :D

It would be cool to have a hollow grind, I've seen plenty of .010 bte regrinds, but none with a hollow grind.

I have been trying to get a regrind with a 36" or 42" radius platten for years to no avail. Hopefully this becomes a reality

If a Super Blue Delica at .010 is made, it WILL end up in my rotation. I'm definitely interested in any AFI-focused knives Spyderco decides to put out.

I see a lot of request for the delica here. I do like the delica, but it's plenty thin enough for me the way it is. I'd prefer a classically thicker model, slimmed down and souped up in some way. E.g. The military/paramilitary series. Etc

DOUBLE D wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:55 am

I see a lot of request for the delica here. I do like the delica, but it's plenty thin enough for me the way it is. I'd prefer a classically thicker model, slimmed down and souped up in some way. E.g. The military/paramilitary series. Etc

The idea of a thinned down Millie brings a smile to my face, though I am not sure how feasable it really is for Spyderco. If I had to ignore all factors, I would want this size blade. 4" +/-