AFI Performance Flash Batch

[ZrowsN1s]

My favorite cardboard knife is a ZDP Dragonfly I put a nice thin mirror polished edge on. Cuts like a laser. I much prefer it to a box cutter at any price. Blade shape, handle shape, lock type... it's not that disposable razors don't work, but they leave a lot to be desired.

[gundamaniac]

Besides, we're knife knuts discussing knives on a knife forum. Of course we would want a nice knife dedicated to slicey tasks like breaking down boxes! We could even name it something appropriate, like box...knife? Slicer? Cutter? Yeah, that's it, boxcutter!

All kidding aside, boxcutters don't typically have the same ergos a nice Spyderco has. Maybe Spyderco should make a boxcutter handle. Hm.

[dj moonbat]

I'm sure you can get a reground knife that will do an absolutely kick-*** job as a dedicated knife for breaking down boxes. But it seems unlikely to do better than a knife that was literally built for that sole purpose. And even if you threw out a box cutter blade every few hours of work, how long would it take you to match the cost of the regrind? Probably longer than the reground knife itself would last.

I mean, if you WANT a really nice knife for breaking down boxes, go for it, I guess. But for a need that specific, an expensive pocketknife is a pretty general tool that has a lot of potential being wasted.

I think if we took this approach with every cutting task we wouldn't be here. You're definitely right but man that's a boring way to live.

Well, true. If a guy's going to get a dedicated Spyderco box cutter, I'd nominate the Dodo.

[Bloke]

I’d love to see some thin ground dedicated slicers and voted ‘YES’. I wonder why anyone wouldn’t. :confused:

Don’t we primarily slice with our knives when we’re not shaving arms and legs, push cutting phone book paper or whittling hair? :rolleyes:

[dj moonbat]

I’d love to see some thin ground dedicated slicers and voted ‘YES’. I wonder why anyone wouldn’t. :confused:

Don’t we primarily slice with our knives when we’re not shaving arms and legs, push cutting phone book paper or whittling hair? :rolleyes:

I like to baton with mine to split firewood.

[Bloke]

I’d love to see some thin ground dedicated slicers and voted ‘YES’. I wonder why anyone wouldn’t. :confused:

Don’t we primarily slice with our knives when we’re not shaving arms and legs, push cutting phone book paper or whittling hair? :rolleyes:

I like to baton with mine to split firewood.

Fair enough brother! :)

You won’t need to throw your money away on a slicer or a hatchet. :cool:

[Evil D]

I don't see why you couldn't baton with my Military. The spine is still factory thickness and a thinner edge just makes it cut better. Unless you're trying to baton through hard wood knots but that's asking for trouble regardless of the knife.

[Bloke]

I don't see why you couldn't baton with my Military. The spine is still factory thickness and a thinner edge just makes it cut better. Unless you're trying to baton through hard wood knots but that's asking for trouble regardless of the knife.

Knots and hardwood burls with twisted grains that could put lateral pressure on the blade aside, I reckon you could baton your re ground Millie till the cows came home without issue but why would you?

[Evil D]

I don't see why you couldn't baton with my Military. The spine is still factory thickness and a thinner edge just makes it cut better. Unless you're trying to baton through hard wood knots but that's asking for trouble regardless of the knife.

Knots and hardwood burls with twisted grains that could put lateral pressure on the blade aside, I reckon you could baton your re ground Millie till the cows came home without issue but why would you?

I'm was just adding to the debate. It probably isn't the best steel for it. Check out Murray Carter's neck knives...very thin but you can beat the snot out of them.

[Bloke]

I'm was just adding to the debate. It probably isn't the best steel for it. Check out Murray Carter's neck knives...very thin but you can beat the snot out of them.

D, we’re on the same page. :)

I misread/misunderstood the thread title and only looked today. I can’t quite understand why anyone wouldn’t want the option of a thin ground blade. :rolleyes:

[Evil D]

I can’t quite understand why anyone wouldn’t want the option of a thin ground blade. :rolleyes:

I think a lot of people are caught up in the hard use hype and carry based on the what-if. I would sooner carry a beefy overbuilt knife in my EDC bag and carry a thin slicer in my pocket. I'm never very far from the right tool. Lots of people out there tailoring their carry based on made up what if scenarios that are unlikely to ever happen. I do understand that or I wouldn't carry a backpack full of crap I never use, but if you find that you're cutting boxes and food and such more often than not, you're really doing yourself an injustice by carrying a thick door stop blade. I can't remember ever breaking the blade on any of the old Case or Buck 110s I carried as a kid and I did a lot more stupid things with my knife back then than I'd do now.

[Evil D]

This all reminds me of the upcoming hamaguri grind knife I heard talk about recently... I'd like to try something like that.

[KnowNothingPoole]

Evil D,
I was thinking of making the same mod to my manix 2, of grinding down the jimping and removing the 2nd finger choil hump. I think it looks really great. How do you like it with these changes? any regrets?

[Evil D]

Evil D,
I was thinking of making the same mod to my manix 2, of grinding down the jimping and removing the 2nd finger choil hump. I think it looks really great. How do you like it with these changes? any regrets?

Not really regrets per say, I was trying to shape the handle more like the Yojimbo 2 as much as I could, and that's about as far as I can get. I may eventually pick up the back lock version and try it again since having no liners makes this kind of mod much easier. I still really like the feel of the standard grip shape though.

[ZrowsN1s]

Had to break down a few large cardboard boxes into small pieces to fit them in a small recycling bin today. Had my new M4 native with me. The edge held up great and was still near razor sharp when I was finished.

I had the blade bind up a few times as I got 3/4th of the way through a few of the longer cuts. The blade was being pinched by the weight of the cardboard (I was holding the large pieces of cardboard in one hand, and cutting with the other). I just put a little more muscle into it and it sliced through with no problems, but I couldn't help thinking about this thread though, and how a thinner grind on the knife would have compared.

[HarleyXJGuy]

Yes.

I would buy all models.

So much win with this idea.

Can’t see it happening because lawyers and law suits are a thing.

It's all about the disclaimer. I doubt anyone is suing Opinel if they break a blade.

Speaking of Opinel, if anyone wants to try a thin blade for cheap they can be had for less than $20 and are possibly the best slicing knives available for the price.

Have one.

It has been sharpened, a lot.

Thin and razor sharp.

[xceptnl]

There is an ocean of difference between a thinner edge bevel and a thinner blade grind

Precisely. I would venture to bet money that an Opinel with a 25dps will cut far better than a factory Millie with a 17 or even 12 dps edge.

A Millie with a 10DPS edge will outcut Opinels in most materials. I've EDC'd both.

Not in edc tasks. A milli with s30v at 10 dps per side will fail in most uses. Some very minor tasks it will excel. The primary bevel thickness trumps the secondary bevel angle. It's what it is. You can argue all you want. An opinel in whatever steel it uses will outperform a military in pressure cut testing 9 out of 10 times because it is thinner behind the edge by a significant margin and is fairly thinner at the spine, too.

Doesn't mean the opinel is a better knife. Far from it. But your statements, friend, are inaccurate. Maybe you can preface your statements to make them more accurate? Simply saying thicker s30v at 10 dps will out cut an opinel is bs. That's the truth for most people.

I was going to post this in an entirely new thread, but it is such useful data I wanted to keep it linked to this thread. As I mentioned, I have been cutting some rigid insulation recently for Vacation Bible School at my home church. My wife and I are co-chairpersons along with another younger couple. I have been slicing this DuPont 3/4" insulation board because we got such a great deal on it last year. Making wooden planks for our mock half-pipe, skateboards, snowboards, surfboards and even a half scale hang glider. SO .... with so much materials to cut I decided this would make a great real world experiment for our AFI Flash Batch theory.

I used three blades for my experiment as they are similar in thickness at the useable area. Additionally, they are a diverse array of steels on the edge retention spectrum. These results are not nearly as scientific as experiments done by Ankerson and others, but I will continue to post findings as the work continues. All three blades have different edge bevel angles, but I think you will see from the results that this actually further reinforces the point of this thread.

Phil Wilson Custom S110V (first tested by Ankerson in 2011)
.1310" thick blade stock with a distal taper (3.31mm)
.0090" thickness behind the edge
.0700" spine thickness at full blade engagement into material for this test (shown in second photo below).
12 dps +/-

Opinel No. 8 Carbone
.0660" thick blade stock with a taper starting @ 60% of spine length (1.67mm)
.0060" thickness behind the edge
.0620" spine thickness at full blade engagement into material for this test (shown in second photo below).
15dps +/-

Spyderco K05 Kitchen Paring knife in MBS-26
.0600" thick blade stock with a taper starting @ 50% of spine length (1.52mm)
.0130" thickness behind the edge
.0450" spine thickness at full blade engagement into material for this test (shown in second photo below).
20dps +/-

I started the test cutting about 125' of this material using a sharpie and a straight-edge. The less than scientific portion of the test was left up to my uncalibrated latissimus dorsi & triceps. After each 48" pass I checked the edge for sharpness before making another pass. The amount of force needed to force the blades through the media was significantly different, right from the start. After about 100' of material, I stopped and checked the edge retention of each blade on legal pad paper. Both the Opinel and Spyderco were significantly dull and needed a touch up, despite the latter still being the leader in ease of slicing through the insulation.

After each blade reached the 200' material finish line, and my triceps were burning, a winner was clear in the slicing through stiff media comparison. The thinner blade stock made the K05 the clear winner, despite the thickness behind the spine being twice it's competitors and the edge bevel being significantly more obtuse. The honorable mention goes to the Opinel for it's slicing prowess. The next plan is to repeat the test with identical edge bevel angles on the Opinel and K05 to determine if the K05 pulls away with a clearly noticeable advantage. Stay tuned.




(Left to Right: Opinel, Phil Wilson, Spyderco K05)

One more point of information, everyone should note the amount of blade in contact with the material on the K05 vs the other two. The drop point shape of the Spyderco required me to lower my cutting angle. This is evident by the marks on the blades.

[The Meat man]

Very interesting test! I'll be looking forward to hearing more.

And I must say, this thread is growing on me...I find myself liking this flash batch idea more and more. :)

[vivi]

I don't see why you couldn't baton with my Military. The spine is still factory thickness and a thinner edge just makes it cut better. Unless you're trying to baton through hard wood knots but that's asking for trouble regardless of the knife.

I've batoned with Opinels. Biggest concern is the lock and pivot, not the blade.

[mattman]

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More discussion!