Does Made in America Need to be Expensive?

[Spyderman91]

Hello everyone,

If you are like me, you love owning products made in the USA (spoiler I am American). There is something about owning a product made in the great West that spending extra to support my country is a forethought. I figure any amount of money would be well spent, and would benefit other people living in the US. When it came to my blade habit, I always justified my purchases with the phrase "You get what you pay for".

Now that phrase has been tossed on it's head with the "Kershaw 1776 Link with m390" it costs a whompin 80 dollars. This knife (although thin) features an m390 blade and aluminum handle scales.
https://www.knifecenter.com/item/KS1776 ... um-handles

I saw that, and immediately looked down at my 194 dollar Shaman which has the classic CPM-S30V and g10 (Contoured amazingly by cherubs and everything right in the world). Now a comparison between the two would be "Apples and Oranges". However, to give some context I originally purchased this knife because I absolutely loved the pm2. My main attraction being the compression lock, now when I learned Spyderco made a beeftank destroyer with the CL (compression lock) I jumped on it.

The knife is a beast, and the DLC finish makes it disappears behind any dark surface. But as of right now, I do feel like I overpaid because the compression lock on my particular model requires additional force to disengage. Personally, I think it is too tight because my PM2 has been butter out of the box since day one. I would need to dissemble the knife to adjust it, and I would much rather send it to the Golden for inspection.
Even though I love this knife as previously stated, I feel like I have to keep making justifications to myself, for it, when there is an
80 dollar aluminum handled knife fitted with one of the most impervious super steels for more than half of the cost...

The difference in the price would probably be because the Shaman's blade stock is much, much, thicker than the Kershaw, and overall is built
like a well balanced fixed blade rather than a folder (told you this knife was a beast). But my poor pre-arthritic hands are just not a fan of it at this moment.

What do you guys think, should you have to pay for quality, or can you really get a great lifetime knife for McDonald's pricing?

Pic of my new "Show Queen" the Native 5 Fluted Titanium, and my Shaman blade wearing in.

[Daveho]

form someone who isn’t American, I’ll say this.
A lot of US made stuff is good, a lot of Japanese made stuff is good, a lot of Chinese made stuff is good and so on, moral of the story is that country of origin is pretty irrelevant.

[Pelagic]

I picked up one of those Kershaw Links. I have average sized hands (size L gloves) and I can barely get a nice 4 finger grip on the knife. I didn't expect much from what is normally a $40 knife with budget steel, but the fit and finish and perceived durability (just my impression) is definitely not on par with spyderco. Not sure I'll be keeping it.

[Pelagic]

I just can't seem to find the edit button sometimes

Accidental post.

[Spyderman91]

Great points from both of you, sorry if the post came off as "super Americany".

It just seems like in the US everything made here is more pricey compared to imports (China), so the expression has always been
"you get what you pay for" to everything.

I do own knives made in Spain, Russia and China, they are all amazing and can stand up on their own right.

[Daveho]

Not sure why but my mind drifts to Gibson, a company capable of making fantastic guitars with amazing heritage and the support of generations of music superstars however over time quality has slipped, prices remain unrealistically high and support has dwindled.
on the other side look at PRS another American company who are very open about using a Korean OE to produce their “budget” range and through good management, training and materials they deliver a guitar every bit as good as the Gibson, three times its cost.

[vivi]

Don't know why I can get a custom USA made fixed blade for less than $60 shipped, but doing the same with production fixed blades or production folders is tough.

This knife is A2 steel, heat treated to the RC60's, hold a great edge, gets very sharp, resists corrosion well for carbon steel (Forced a patina on this particular one), rough canvas micarta scales, kydex sheath, nothing bad I can say about it. I paid $59 for it shipped to my door, brand new straight from the maker.

I also have an ESEE Izula 2 I like. It's a similar sized as the PSK I posted above, but 1095 instead of A2. It also has Micarta but the scales are a bit more squared off than the contoured PSK scales. Costs a bit more too, but it was still under $75 shipped.

I've thought about buying an Enuff, but they weigh more than either of the knives above, and cost twice as much, and I'm not sure they'd offer much better performance?

I'm not aware of any USA made folders that cost under $100 and have the features I want, but I'd like to. Right now my go to folders are the ~$100 Pacific Salt SE and the ~$50 Cold Steel Large Voyager. Made it Japan and Taiwan, respectively.

Country of origin isn't as important as raw performance for me, but I do like to buy USA made when I can. Makes more economic sense than buying chinese made products IMO. That being said I'll buy a chinese made knife from a US-based company before I buy a chinese made knife from a company with little to no US presence.

[anycal]

I lived in 3 different countries over the course of my life. Two things I like to source locally - quality mechanical items and beer (local to region).

There are choices when it comes to folders. I tried four US manufactures. For me, Spyderco has a right balance of quality, price, and variety.

[guywithopinion]

You mention S30V and M390. Hopefully you don't think that's all that relates to price or value. The $80 Link is a $45 steel improvement on a $35 knife. I've had an aluminum Link and a PM2 (no Shaman). They are not comparable IMO. The PM2 is very smooth, the Link uses a torsion bar so you don't notice the smoothness. In usefulness, the PM2 is lighter, and has significantly better cutting performance out of the box. The Link was horrible, the secondary bevel was very obtuse out of the box. It sharpens up sharp but it's like cutting things with a wedge. It would bind up big time in cardboard. I also think the ergonomics on the PM2 were better, and I feel the PM2 is one of the least ergonomic Spyderco's I've tried (it's not bad, just mediocre). The Link's smooth anodization and angular shape look great, but aren't that great to hold.

I do think the Link was well made for the price point and I do think it's a big win for Kershaw. But owning it did not make me question the value of any other American made knives I have. If you are interested in a lower priced US-made Spyderco, you really should check out the UKPK. It is an excellent knife, and the lack of a lock really doesn't hamper its usefulness at all (and the resultant low weight is impressive).

[Pelagic]

You mention S30V and M390. Hopefully you don't think that's all that relates to price or value. The $80 Link is a $45 steel improvement on a $35 knife. I've had an aluminum Link and a PM2 (no Shaman). They are not comparable IMO. The PM2 is very smooth, the Link uses a torsion bar so you don't notice the smoothness. In usefulness, the PM2 is lighter, and has significantly better cutting performance out of the box. The Link was horrible, the secondary bevel was very obtuse out of the box. It sharpens up sharp but it's like cutting things with a wedge. It would bind up big time in cardboard. I also think the ergonomics on the PM2 were better, and I feel the PM2 is one of the least ergonomic Spyderco's I've tried (it's not bad, just mediocre). The Link's smooth anodization and angular shape look great, but aren't that great to hold.

I do think the Link was well made for the price point and I do think it's a big win for Kershaw. But owning it did not make me question the value of any other American made knives I have. If you are interested in a lower priced US-made Spyderco, you really should check out the UKPK. It is an excellent knife, and the lack of a lock really doesn't hamper its usefulness at all (and the resultant low weight is impressive).

While I agree with most of what you said, and will probably end up selling the link, it slices cardboard wonderfully. I don't see how any thin, razor sharp m390 blade would "bind up big time" on cardboard. No issues there.

[MichaelScott]

What do you guys think, should you have to pay for quality, or can you really get a great lifetime knife for McDonald's pricing?

Yes.
No.

[500Nitro]

Unless you want wages in the US to drop to Asian/Chinese levels of a few cents an hour,
then yes, expect to pay more for US made items.

Ive had products made in the US and China, with the US you know its going to be a certain quality,
with China you get what you pay for - and you can choose the level of quality! They even state on
some items the number of failures per 1000 for a product and you pay accordingly if the rate is less.

[bearfacedkiller]

Keep in mind that some companies are willing to sell some products at a loss or with little to no profit. Supermarkets do it. I have often wondered if the Kershaw Leek (a $40 knife made in the USA) isn’t one of those products. Selling a product that way can do a lot to build your brand and get knives with your name on it out there so you can make money on other products. Just speculation but maybe worth consideration.

[bearfacedkiller]

Also keep in mind that economics are complex and things like cost of living and wages must come into play. Both of those are quite high in the US, Japan and Europe.

[The Meat man]

Being an American I am naturally biased towards domestic products; however, the overarching consideration for me is not country of origin but quality. In a knife, this means good blade steel and handle materials, solid, functional, and safe construction, and outstanding fit and finish.

Give me a choice between two identical knives, one made in Japan and the other in the USA, and I will pick the USA model.

Give me a choice between a high quality Japanese-made knife and a mediocre USA-made knife, and I will pick the Japanese model.

[bpahk]

Im sure production costs on 3D contoured and precision milled g10 to accept nested compresion lock is way higher than 2 slabs of aluminum. Plus theres also all the r&d that goes into getting the heat treat right to balance steel spring of compression lock as well as hardness of lock interface. I dont think its the m390 vs s30v thats the main consideration in pricing here.

[500Nitro]

Bearface

I agree, maybe not a loss leader but certainly little or no profit as a brand builder.

I think consumers generally now know the price of everything but the value (read quality) of nothing!

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Explain this to me: How come the people of Finland are able to produce top-quality fixed blade knives (and amazingly, even some folders though the folders do tend to be more expensive) such as puukko and leuku knives that are razor-sharp and hold a great edge and are made of very good quality steel and handle materials, and they can sell these in the 20-60 dollar range? Yes, there are some more expensive Finnish-made knives with greater embellishment and that type of feature to them, but, the basic range I listed is authentic. Why are they able to do this, when their society has more expensive labor costs than the USA? If I am in error on this please correct me.

Is it because the people of Finland have been at this quality knife making for so long and have invested so much time and effort and energy into it that they have it down on how to produce a quality knife at a very affordable level?

[500Nitro]

It's a good question and one that can be applied to a number of products in the outdoor, hunting, fishing industry.

[SF Native]

You can get a ukpk for $55. You can get a s35vn native or bd1 manix for about $90. When that manix changes to bd1n steel, that’s the ticket. That pricing it pretty competitive but spyderco doesn’t seem to cut corners so obviously, which is one thing I really appreciate.