Steel that takes the keenest (sharpest) edge?

[Bloke]

All steels are capable of taking an edge beyond what human hands can make them.

I’m sending all my knives to SpyderEdgeForever! :cool:

[TomAiello]

ZDP-189 Dragonfly.

[kodai78]

ZDP 189 is the one for me. I must say that all steels can be made very sharp if you are willing to invest time and effort. I also like BD 1 and I think the kitchen knives with MBS 26 hold an edge very well.

[The Mastiff]

All steels are capable of taking an edge beyond what human hands can make them.

I agree with Jim. There is no practical difference between the steels in Spyderco knives. If someone says " sharpest the fastest on Silicone Carbide" or something specific there may be a difference but all the steels used can get as sharp as any of the others. Some take longer, some have better edge stability, some are more wear resistant but all can get as sharp as the others at our level. I'd guess most of us aren't going for the 1 atom or molecule edge with a tungsten blade.

What is the sharpest thing in the world?
The sharpest object ever made is a tungsten needle that tapers down to the thickness of a single atom. It was manufactured by placing a narrow tungsten wire in an atmosphere of nitrogen and exposing it to a strong electric field in a device called a field ion microscope

[JD Spydo]

Of the standard models, ZDP-189 takes quite a sharp edge.

Yes indeed ZDP-189 is one that immediately comes to mind considering all the blade steels I've used over the years. Recently I've gotten S110V and M390 both to take incredibly great, straight razor type edges which also hold up well in hard work.

The one mainline blade steel that has never let me down is VG-10. I know it's not ranked as high as some of the others we've talked about but for the price it really performs well IMO.

[elena86]

Cruwear

[MichaelScott]

I like to sharpen, and admit I'm a sucker for the parlor tricks (whittling hair, silently cutting phone book paper, etc.)

So, among the steels that Spyderco uses, which ones take the keenest edge?

Bonus points if it's available on one of the "classic" EDC models (I'll let everyone decide what's a classic EDC) and isn't a sprint/exclusive that will cost me an arm and a leg.

All steels are capable of taking an edge beyond what human hands can make them.

Exactly. You have identified the boundary between theoretical and the practical. It is interesting to read discussions of various steel properties. I enjoy that because I know little about the various steels Spyderco uses. When it comes to sharpening and getting a fine edge, I suspect it is a matter of the proper tools and expertise of the sharpener.

I am happy in actual practice with VG10, S30V, BD1, etc. because they are within the range of my sharpening skills and do all I need in a knife. I have been reluctant to get the harder “super” steels because I may not be able to maintain the edge. Although Lance's observations about Cruwear are intriguing.

[Evil D]

Of the typical Spyderco offerings nothing I've had takes an edge like 52100 and H1. Both take to the Sharpmaker very well and give ridiculous results with minimal effort.

[mjdragonfly]

You'd be looking at steel with small carbides then. A low alloy steel and not vanadium like most high end steels.
I'd say 52100 (carbon steel) or ZDP-189 (small chromium carbides and high hardness) could fit the bill. Basic VG-10 is not bad either. Japanese White/Blue carbon steel in some of the sprint runs.

Chromium carbides are supposed to be about as huge as they come while Vanadium carbides are very small, that what Cliff Stamp had to say about them. Anyone else way into steel care to confirm this?
I can confirm that ZDP is a goo sharp edge steel and so is S110V. I have not got any 52100 yet but my wood Chisels are a Japanese high carbon steel maybe blue steel, they get very sharp and hold it well.

[twinboysdad]

For me-

Factory ZDP

Resharpening HAP40

[Rutger]

You'd be looking at steel with small carbides then. A low alloy steel and not vanadium like most high end steels.
I'd say 52100 (carbon steel) or ZDP-189 (small chromium carbides and high hardness) could fit the bill. Basic VG-10 is not bad either. Japanese White/Blue carbon steel in some of the sprint runs.

Chromium carbides are supposed to be about as huge as they come while Vanadium carbides are very small, that what Cliff Stamp had to say about them. Anyone else way into steel care to confirm this?
I can confirm that ZDP is a goo sharp edge steel and so is S110V. I have not got any 52100 yet but my wood Chisels are a Japanese high carbon steel maybe blue steel, they get very sharp and hold it well.

I don't think there is a simple answer to that. Carbide size differ based on alloy mix, heat treat, powder metallurgy improvements in steel grain size etc. It's also about how much carbide volume is packed into the steel. Like cement vs aggregate and it never perfectly mixed. It is not a fixed number. Just like steels can have differing grain sizes. Carbides are a material that can be studied in depth just like steel can be. That is also why we are still getting new great steels on the market.

But the chromium carbides in ZDP-189 can be cut with simple aluminum oxide stones while for vanadium you would need diamond or CBN stones which not everyone has. I think this plays a large role too.

[Pelagic]

This is a general question just to help my understanding. If one were to ask "which steel is capable of the most acute apex angle?", how would the answers differ? I see they are different questions, but the answers may not be different. I'm just curious.

[Bodog]

This is a general question just to help my understanding. If one were to ask "which steel is capable of the most acute apex angle?", how would the answers differ? I see they are different questions, but the answers may not be different. I'm just curious.

Ankerson and The Mastiff are the most correct in that there's not a real answer to the question.

Theoretically if you use diamond or CBN then every steel can get just as sharp, using the same technique. If the carbides are harder than the sharpening media then you'll only plow the carbides and cut the matrix of the steel. If there is only a steel matrix, meaning no or almost no carbides or you're sharpening is so unrefined that you don't care about sharpening the carbides, then you only need sharpening media harder than the steel matrix itself.

52100 and super blue have very little carbide volume
Any decent sharpening stone and most crap sharpening equipment can get a refined edge even with mediocre technique and little patience.

10V and S110V have large carbide volumes.
Aluminum and silicon carbide stones can sharpen these steels by cutting the steel matrix at 60RC and the steel carbides, vanadium or whatever at a theoretic +/-80 RC just get plowed out with the matrix that's being removed.
T hey're small enough where there's not a huge impact but still an impact depending on just how refined you want your edge.

Get rex121 at 72 rc and it's so carbide saturated and the matrix is so hard that aluminium oxide may or may not be able to even coarsely sharpen the blade. Silicon carbide can get the job done if you're not removing a lot of steel but it's even still questionable depending on how experienced and patient you are.

It's not about which steel can get the sharpest edge. All are capable of the shame sharpness. It's a question of which steel you have, how it was heat treated, which sharpening media you're using, and your technique. It's a hard question.

If you narrowed it down to something like:
I have some soft Arkansas stones. I'm somewhat new at freehand sharpening. I only have plain leather strops. Which steel can get a keener edge with what i have available, white steel at 63 RC or 15V at 70 RC?

Well, the answer would be clear...the white steel.

If you said:
I have a wicked edge I've been using for 3 years and can get hair whittling edges. I've sharpened 20-30 different knives consisting of a variety of steels and understand what I'm doing. I use diamond plates and cbn emulsion on kangaroo. Which steel takes a keener edge, RWL34 at 59 RC heat treated by Peters or CPM154 at 59 RC heat treated by Peters?

Well, that would be a difficult question to answer and it would likely lead to an ambiguous answer based on how on your game you were when you sharpened each.

If you stick to unrefined edges at around 400 grit using silicon carbide stones, then any steel will feel the same because you aren't refining your edge enough to matter whether you're cutting the actual carbides or not. You're only concerned with cutting the matrix and silicon carbide is hard enough to cut almost any steel matrix. Definitely not hard enough to cut vanadium carbide.

That's really as simple as what i can say while still trying to give some kind of understanding about what's happening at the edge.

[Pelagic]

Well, some cheap chinese steels flat out won't get sharp regardless of what abrasives you use. And I can't assume that every single one has a problem with heat treat, but maybe I should. This does seem to highlight the fact that no 2 steels can exhibit identical properties. Some undoubtedly have less of a tendency to deteriorate at the apex once it approaches a certain thin-ness. However I do agree in a general sense that all steels offered by spyderco can get equally sharp... I see it as rather obvious frankly.

[bearfacedkiller]

This is a general question just to help my understanding. If one were to ask "which steel is capable of the most acute apex angle?", how would the answers differ? I see they are different questions, but the answers may not be different. I'm just curious.

It is generally accepted that the lower the carbide volume and the finer the grain structure the better if your goal is acute angles. You can sharpen any blade steel to an acute angle. The question is whether or not the steel is able to support that angle.

Basic carbon steels like 1095 will support acute angles. Steels like 52100 and Super Blue which have a tad more carbides will also support very acute angles. For stainless steels you might look towards steels like ael-b or 13c26. The carbide rich steels are assisted by the powdered metal processes because of refined grain structure but they still do not compare to the basic carbon steels. If you take D2 for example, it is known for having very large carbides, larger than many other steels. CPMD2 on the other hand has much finer grain structure than ingot D2 so it should be able to support a more acute edge.

For me this is getting acedemic because I have run S30V at 20 inclusive without issues and i also have a puukko in ingot D2 that is under 20 degrees inclusive and it holds up just fine and it carves a lot of hardwood. I took my S110V Mule down to around 25 inclusive and processed a Mule deer and had no problems and it was still fairly sharp when I finished. Either I haven’t taken those steels down to an acute enough angle to have issues or I don’t use them hard enough to have issues at those angles.

[bearfacedkiller]

Well, some cheap chinese steels flat out won't get sharp regardless of what abrasives you use. And I can't assume that every single one has a problem with heat treat, but maybe I should. This does seem to highlight the fact that no 2 steels can exhibit identical properties. Some undoubtedly have less of a tendency to deteriorate at the apex once it approaches a certain thin-ness. However I do agree in a general sense that all steels offered by spyderco can get equally sharp... I see it as rather obvious frankly.

Depends on how cheap of a steel you are referring to. If we are talking about some soft gummy 420J2 then that is a whole different can of worms.

[Pelagic]

I guess I didn't word that post very well. I wasn't really looking for an answer to that question. I was interested in how people interpreted the question itself compared to the question asked by the OP. Is it almost like asking the same thing?

[bearfacedkiller]

I do not think that it is the same question. The original question does not really have an answer or the answer is all of them. With the correct stones and the skill set you can get all steels equally sharp. Asking which steels are physically able to support more acute edge angles does have an answer and that is low allow steels with a fine grain structure at a proper hardness. You cannot really name any specific steels to answer the original question but you can name steels that will answer yours.

[TomAiello]

I recently sharpened my daughters (VG-10) Dragonfly, and it was ludicrous how quickly I got it to "hair popping" sharp. I think it took me about a tenth of the time that my (Maxamet) Manix took.

[Ncmiked]

AUS8 for the win!