Updated shaman sprint steel poll

[Liquid Cobra]

Glad to hear it Sal! I’ve wanted an S90V CF version since I first heard of this knife. Also glad to hear there are dealers with interest in Shaman exclusives.

[steelcity16]

Yeah, I'll pass on the s90v shaman as well.

CRUWEAR NATION!

Yeah, same here. S90v holds very little interest for me on folders.

I think 3v is the right Steel for a shaman sprint but cruwear or 4v would probably sell better. I’d be interested in any of the 3 but I voted for 3v.

I voted for Cruwear only because I assume that one is more likely to actually happen, but if I really had a choice (like if I was ordering a custom) i'd go with 3V on the Shaman. I think any of the 3 you listed would sell, and something like 3V would introduce a bunch of new people to the brand since there are a bunch of fixed blade 3V junkies who would kill for a good 3V folder. That said, I'd be darn happy with Cruwear as that is my favorite Spyderco steel (havent tried their 3V or 4V yet).

[steelcity16]

CRUWEAR NATION UNITE!

I'm gonna tattoo "CRUWEAR 4 LIFE!!!" on my chest with my new Cruwear Military when it arrives! Just need to grab a Para 3, then i'll have them all.

[Cujobob]

I don't like this poll. You have 7 tool steels and only 3 stainless options. Of the stainless options, two are specialty nitrogen steels, and only one is a conventional steel. I went with Vanax because it's supposed to be the toughest stainless steel on the market. Also, it would be totally different since Spyderco already offers tool steels on other folders.

The basic model comes in a conventional stainless. The idea behind a sprint run is something different and generally moreso aimed at enthusiasts. LC200N is a fantastic stainless steel that also holds an edge for quite a while. IIRC, isn’t it also pretty tough?

CPM Cruwear doesn’t rust easily and several others are known moreso to patina than rust through.

We have seen a ton of S110V/90V in Spyderco models, it would make some sense if they produce another version of the Shaman as a readily available product. For a sprint, it seems like unique is what we would expect and desire. I’m ready to go on a Shaman myself, but I’m just not an S30V fan.

[ugaarguy]

I don't like this poll. You have 7 tool steels and only 3 stainless options. Of the stainless options, two are specialty nitrogen steels, and only one is a conventional steel. I went with Vanax because it's supposed to be the toughest stainless steel on the market. Also, it would be totally different since Spyderco already offers tool steels on other folders.

The basic model comes in a conventional stainless. The idea behind a sprint run is something different and generally moreso aimed at enthusiasts. LC200N is a fantastic stainless steel that also holds an edge for quite a while. IIRC, isn’t it also pretty tough?

CPM Cruwear doesn’t rust easily and several others are known moreso to patina than rust through.

We have seen a ton of S110V/90V in Spyderco models, it would make some sense if they produce another version of the Shaman as a readily available product. For a sprint, it seems like unique is what we would expect and desire. I’m ready to go on a Shaman myself, but I’m just not an S30V fan.

Spyderco has already made several models in CruWear. The only folder that's even remotely available in Vanax at the moment is a Shirogorov (can't remember the exact model) that runs $900-$1200 when US dealers have them in stock. You're not going to get any more different and aimed at enthusiasts than Vanax.

[Rutger]

Sal once mentioned S90V CF in a thread before we even made this poll, so i was not surprised. I guess it is his baby. But like many here i have no interest in that.

And dealer exclusives just sucks for us non Americans. They are not easy to get and way more expensive if you even manage to get your hands on one. Not of fan of these. A real shame they did not include the Shaman in the Rex 45 run to get people worldwide a good steel upgrade that is also readily available. Guess i'll never own a Shaman.

[dogrunner]

Sal once mentioned S90V CF in a thread before we even made this poll, so i was not surprised. I guess it is his baby. But like many here i have no interest in that.

And dealer exclusives just sucks for us non Americans. They are not easy to get and way more expensive if you even manage to get your hands on one. Not of fan of these. A real shame they did not include the Shaman in the Rex 45 run to get people worldwide a good steel upgrade that is also readily available. Guess i'll never own a Shaman.

We are so laser focused on certain objectives (Cruwear, 4V, M4 etc) and start to take for granted the alternatives, that we sometimes lose a little perspective :) I would prefer Cruwear and voted for that, would buy 4V or M4 or 3V, and have no interest in S30V because the model itself is not a must-have for me. S30V is a fine steel, but not enough alone to get me to open my wallet. OTOH, S90V is a great steel and probably my favorite and most represented stainless steels. I have held off on a Shaman as much as I admired the design, because I just don't need another knife (I have a lot of PM2s and Milis), but I would buy S90V! Someone else started a thread on "natural selection" - which knives do you find yourself carrying a lot, and for me it has either been Cruwear or s90V. I have plenty of alternatives, mostly in deeper storage. The immediate access versions are usually Cruwear or S90V with a few M4s sprinkled in.

[Pelagic]

In a perfect world, regarding steel, in almost any model I'm usually going to lean towards one of these 2 things

1. Absolute maximum edge retention/wear resistance.

2. An extremely tough, well rounded steel with impressive apex stability.

Examples of 1: REX 121, Maxamet, s125v, HAP72, s110v, high rockwell tool steels, etc.

Examples of 2: CRUWEAR, M4, 4V, 3V with impressive HT, etc.

For example, I owned an s90v military, used it and loved it... but when I got my s110v model, I ended up selling it. From a standpoint of having one's bases covered, it would make more sense to own a model in s110v and cruwear than it would to own s110v and s90v.

I would rather carry 2 knives (one with crazy edge retention and long lasting slicing ability, and one with a very tough/stable edge) that specialize in different things than try to pick one to accomplish every task. I know many people would rather carry ONE more well-rounded (well-rounded in the sense that it does a good job of being a hybrid between the 2 choices listed above) blade (simply go with m4, m390, elmax, etc) and call it a day, but I'm willing to bet a few people understand my personal preference.

This is why s90v doesn't really intrigue me. It's an absolutely AMAZING steel, but I've gotten my experience with it and now prefer s110v, which is arguably better in every way. There are a few steels like that that SORT OF do what s90v does but better. I may sound like a big hypocrite right now because days ago I was advocating the introduction of 3V in a folder despite other steels being capable of doing what 3V does but better. The difference is, 3V would have the new and exciting factor, it would be extremely rare, and be an interesting surprise regarding what spyderco could do with it heat treat-wise.

Whether I lean toward group 1 or 2 will depend completely on the model. IMO (and many will disagree with this), the military and pm2 are well rounded enough in terms of geometry to practically accommodate both a steel made for a slicer, or a steel made for hard use/apex stability. I could see myself enjoying (from a user standpoint, not a steel nerd standpoint) both Maxamet AND cruwear in either model. In the Shaman however, the design seems to beg for a steel from group 2. In contrast, a theoretical thinly reground delica would beg for a steel from group 1.

How many people share this viewpoint? Are you all about finding that ONE steel that does the best job of suiting your personal needs, or do you see that as nearly impossible and would rather have both sides of the spectrum covered by 2 different knives or models?

[steelcity16]

How many people share this viewpoint? Are you all about finding that ONE steel that does the best job of suiting your personal needs, or do you see that as nearly impossible and would rather have both sides of the spectrum covered by 2 different knives or models?

I pretty much agree with everything you said. I've been buying, trying, and selling, and buying, trying, and selling Spyderco knives faster than I can keep up with here.


Group 1: I basically want a few dedicated slicers with maximum edge retention to keep by my recycling bin for cutting up the miles of cardboard boxes I end up with each week from amazon, ebay, etc. Probably going to go with a Military in Maxamet (assuming it is really happening soon) and a Military in S110V for those. I have a Native in Maxamet and S110V as well, mainly because the Native is my favorite knife and I use it as my mule platform to try different steels.

Group2: Group 2a is my EDC. I never know what I am going to encounter, so I prefer a tougher knife for EDC. Ideally in the Native LW platform during the summer months, so I am really hoping for a Native LW in Cruwear, 3V, 4V, 52100, V4E, PD1, etc. Group 2b would be large tough knives for days when I am going to be doing a lot of work or when I know that a Native LW might be a little undersized. For this I have the Manix 2 and Military both in Cruwear and M4, but I reach for the Cruwear Manix almost every time, so the M4 may be sold to fund other purchases.

Group 3: I have a 3rd group of "Salt" knives that fill various roles. A small DF2 Salt to use at the office for cutting up food at lunch or other office tasks. It is small enough to not scare coworkers and can be washed in the sink to clean the food off. A Spyderhawk and Pacific Salt, both H1 SE for yard tasks. DF2 Salt for beach or pool carry clipped to my boardshorts. Salt 1 or Pacific Salt for fishing. Going to grab a Native LW Salt as well the second I see it for sale! A Manix LW Salt in LC200N would be a must for me as well. :)

Group 4: "Just because" knives. I have a few that don't really fit the above groups, but I just want them for one reason or another. PM2 M390/Red and Jade/M4 DLC because they are stunning to look at. PM2 in 52100 so I could try that steel. Native LW in S90V to try that steel and because I like the Orange/DLC look and Native LW is my favorite summer EDC. Orange VG10 DF2 because I can't get enough DF2 (except laminated for some reason doesnt appeal to me so) for lightweight summer EDC. I could sell all of these and still be content though.

So, all of that rambling aside, I can see where people might want something like S90V or even S30V if they just want a single knife that is balanced in most aspects. You and I and many others seem to prefer having a stable of knives in specialty steels geared to specific tasks. So for me, a Shaman is too big to be EDCed, and it looks like it probably won't be near the slicer that a Military is, so I would probably be grabbing it when I want a beefier knife to do beefier tasks. But like I said, I already have a number of Manixes, and a Cruwear Military on the way, so this is more of a "want to try" knife for me, rather than filling a gap in my needs. So for me, Cruwear would be a buy because I'll buy any Golden model in Cruwear. I don't have any Spyderco 3V, 4V, V4E, or PD1, so those would all be buys for me. I'd also buy a BHQ Jade/M4 because I have all of the Golden models in that line. Any other M4 version or 52100 I'd likely pass on since I already have those in other models. LC200N PE Salt with Translucent yellow G10 scales would be an instant buy as well! Any other other steels like S90V, S110V, CTX-XHP, S35VN, M390 (except maybe a DLC M390 in Red G10 from DLT trading...thatd be sweet!) are passes for me as well in the Shaman because I either have them in other knives or have tried them and dont want/need them.

I know Sal and team can't please everyone as well all have different tastes and needs and wants, so I applaud the already MASSIVE variety in the Spyderco lineup. We truly are lucky to have so many options and it is definitely a first world problem to be so picky about supersteels in a knife. My wallet would hate me and my wife would divorce me if they made every combo I want! That said, I feel like there a lot of demand for steels from the group 2 that isn't being met (Cruwear models go for big bucks on the secondary market) and the Shaman (along with the Manix XL and Manix Backlock, and of course the Military) is the platform for pumping out sprints and exclusives in 3V, 4V, Cruwear, V4E, PD1, LC200N and the like. I have to imagine that the market/demand for these is larger than the market for the more unconventional designs that come out every year? Or maybe I'm way off there and just am not exposed to that segment of the market.

[Pelagic]

I know Sal and team can't please everyone as well all have different tastes and needs and wants, so I applaud the already MASSIVE variety in the Spyderco lineup. We truly are lucky to have so many options and it is definitely a first world problem to be so picky about supersteels in a knife.

VERY true. I do LOVE a handful of spyderco's models (which is actually more than I can say for any other company), but the many options regarding blade material is the reason I'm here. Thanks Sal!

[dogrunner]

In a perfect world, regarding steel, in almost any model I'm usually going to lean towards one of these 2 things

1. Absolute maximum edge retention/wear resistance.

2. An extremely tough, well rounded steel with impressive apex stability.

Examples of 1: REX 121, Maxamet, s125v, HAP72, s110v, high rockwell tool steels, etc.

Examples of 2: CRUWEAR, M4, 4V, 3V with impressive HT, etc.

...

How many people share this viewpoint? Are you all about finding that ONE steel that does the best job of suiting your personal needs, or do you see that as nearly impossible and would rather have both sides of the spectrum covered by 2 different knives or models?

I actually agree with you and almost always carry 2 folders for exactly those reasons. I have a couple of Maxamet blades (PM2 and PM3) and a couple of s110V (Forum Native and Manix2LW). If I had not already owned PM2 and Mili in S90V I might have picked up the S110V, but I did not see the performance improvement of 110V over 90V in the models I have, so never saw a need to "upgrade" to S110V if I already had the model in S90V. Maybe someday... If the Shaman was offered in S110V I would pick up that version, but Sal said S90V, and I am happy with that too. It was not a statement of preference as much as of availability of a steel I know I like.

[Pelagic]

In a perfect world, regarding steel, in almost any model I'm usually going to lean towards one of these 2 things

1. Absolute maximum edge retention/wear resistance.

2. An extremely tough, well rounded steel with impressive apex stability.

Examples of 1: REX 121, Maxamet, s125v, HAP72, s110v, high rockwell tool steels, etc.

Examples of 2: CRUWEAR, M4, 4V, 3V with impressive HT, etc.

...

How many people share this viewpoint? Are you all about finding that ONE steel that does the best job of suiting your personal needs, or do you see that as nearly impossible and would rather have both sides of the spectrum covered by 2 different knives or models?

I actually agree with you and almost always carry 2 folders for exactly those reasons. I have a couple of Maxamet blades (PM2 and PM3) and a couple of s110V (Forum Native and Manix2LW). If I had not already owned PM2 and Mili in S90V I might have picked up the S110V, but I did not see the performance improvement of 110V over 90V in the models I have, so never saw a need to "upgrade" to S110V if I already had the model in S90V. Maybe someday... If the Shaman was offered in S110V I would pick up that version, but Sal said S90V, and I am happy with that too. It was not a statement of preference as much as of availability of a steel I know I like.

Yeah i completely understand your thoughts there.

I think the biggest obstacle for the cruwear nation is that the masses are more likely to desire that ONE blade to accomplish all tasks. I don't think the average person (despite a large percentage of spyderco's customers being knife afi's) looks at a particular model and says "OK, I'll need one for edge retention and one for hard work", lol. Nor do they always look extremely closely at geometry when making a decision regarding steel choice.

[sal]

For discussion purposes only; What do you think about a canvas Micarta in brown like the Temperance had and either stone-washed Cruwear or 204P (or M390 or CPM 20CV)? Since the chemistry is very similar, I would opt for the CPM 20CV.

The CF S90V version I promoting will be a small run sprint due to the high cost.

sal

[wrdwrght]

For discussion purposes only; What do you think about a canvas Micarta in brown like the Temperance had and either stone-washed Cruwear or 204P?

The CF S90V version I promoting will be a small run sprint due to the high cost.

sal

Micarta and Cruwear (if no 3V or 4V :p ) would be a treat, Sal. I’d be game for 20CV, as well (missed it in the PM2 Doh, that was in 20CP.).

[Deadboxhero]

I really like the natural canvas, especially when paired with a hard working powdered tool steel like CRUWEAR.


I'd save the 204p for another model

[xceptnl]

Micarta and stonewashed Cruwear or 204P means where do i swipe my card.... sign me up for one Sal

[Rutger]

Any Micarta + Cruwear gets my thumbs up. Stonewashed is also good to go. Just like posted above the Shaman begs for a group 2 steel. For the regular crowd there is always S30V.

20CV is very nice but i'd like that more on smaller edc and thinner blades. I would like this on a chaparral for example.

[Smeadism]

Micarta and 20CV is what Im feeling. Blade has to be stonewashed though

[Mzen]

The stonewash finish gets two thumbs up from me, keeps the blade looking nicer if used at work everyday. I've been itching to get a Shaman for a long time, I think either steel would get a buy from me. Also, I believe Rutger makes a good case for stuff like 20CV and 204p for smaller edc and thinner blades, I imagine Cruwear makes more sense for a chunky model like the Shaman.

But this is all armchair theorizing on my behalf, I only have experience with S30V and S35VN. Bring your real life experience to the topic ladies and gentlemen, what steel would you prefer and for what uses?

[sal]

Hi Smeadism,

Welcome to our forum.

sal