To : ALL
We ALL likee the knives ( for the most part )
but what of the company? I'm given my opine on this one : Hypocrisy ; I see a company whose intent is to not manufacture knives for
"bad guys", and yet, you can catch one on "forensic files" or "cops". I equate this
to saying the M-16 was made ONLY for "good guys" ( yet look at all the rotten apple's hand's it landed in ; early in the Viet Nam
conflict "Charlie" ( the Viet Cong ) got their hands on some!<img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>) Another disturbing
thing is the so-called "legal issues" of knife production ( oxymoronic, if you ask me!) Look at ALL the competition who(m) has NO PROBLEM producing butterfly knives, switchblades, boot knives, daggers, etc. Then
along comes <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> with a profound idea of producing the <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>fly ( butterfly's -or- balisongs are ILLEGAL in most States of the Union OBTW ) Maybe Sal could "clear the air"
on that. Meebee he'll chime "demand". Another
peeve of mine is Java's claim of "subliminal
suggestion" advertising. NONSENSE! It's aggressive marketing with some new concept(s)
to the "common pocketknife" ( i.e. clip, serrations, hole, etc.) As former forumite/employee RYAN stated in closing in his last post: Great product, not-so-great company to work for! Say what you will about me, but I call it like I see it. I finally can't see why DiALEX ( who, BTW submitted some amicable design(s) ( and a resume ) could ( or would ) not be hired by <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>. I'm also rather disappointed at the 2003 line-up : not much in the way of "custom collaborations" & <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> discontinued some excellent models if only to serve their own end & NOT the ELU. I know you'll say : "NOT my company", but BTW it's "fueled" by ALOT of my $$$!
What say the augerers?
AET
; opine(s)
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AllenETreat
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Hi Allen,
Maaaan, you sure know how to start a fire..<img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
I really have no response to your post, but I have a plan B <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Vox.
" I love the Police. ****, they get most of my knives.." ;)
Maaaan, you sure know how to start a fire..<img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
I really have no response to your post, but I have a plan B <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Vox.
" I love the Police. ****, they get most of my knives.." ;)
Allen, agreed we all like Spyderco "knives". By no means are they the ONLY knife out there, I have many others in my collection(Buck, AlMar, Microtech, Kersham, Emerson, CRKT, Cold Steel, Gerber, Grohmann etc.)
I collect Spyderco knives because they are well priced and easily accessible. And lets face it they make a solid knife, and I will continue to wheen out some of my other blades to make room for some of this years Spydies(Dodo, Ronin) as trades are all I have to get new knives this year as I plan a wedding and pay for it.
Now that said as far as Spyderco Knives the company, I really have nothing bad to say about them. I find them just as good/bad as any other knife company. Not as cocky as some either. All knife companies make claims about their knives, look at CS or CRKT. The only thing I can say about that is...My M-16 CRKT that is marketed as their 1* tough as nails EMS/LEO/Firefighter knife couldn't stand up to a piece of cardboard I tried to cut, the liner bent.It now sits disassembled on my desk awaiting repair. Also I have a CS Ti-Lite I would love to trade for a Spydie. These companies use crazy marketing for their knives 1*,"PROOF" whatever they maybe. I remember a few years ago Spyderco used the driving through the back roads, and thank goodness I had my clipit story. Just another marketing gimmick.
Buy from a stand up company, for stand up products. Don't judge their marketing though, if they stand behind their product and give good service I am sold.
And with regards to the RYAN ex forumite/employee I am unaware of the situation or what happened, but there is alway three sides to a story-yours,theirs and the truth.
Oh and finally it does boggle my mind as to why they have not hired Dialex, the knives he creates are what dreams are made of. If only they made his designs.
"everything else is just a jeep"
I collect Spyderco knives because they are well priced and easily accessible. And lets face it they make a solid knife, and I will continue to wheen out some of my other blades to make room for some of this years Spydies(Dodo, Ronin) as trades are all I have to get new knives this year as I plan a wedding and pay for it.
Now that said as far as Spyderco Knives the company, I really have nothing bad to say about them. I find them just as good/bad as any other knife company. Not as cocky as some either. All knife companies make claims about their knives, look at CS or CRKT. The only thing I can say about that is...My M-16 CRKT that is marketed as their 1* tough as nails EMS/LEO/Firefighter knife couldn't stand up to a piece of cardboard I tried to cut, the liner bent.It now sits disassembled on my desk awaiting repair. Also I have a CS Ti-Lite I would love to trade for a Spydie. These companies use crazy marketing for their knives 1*,"PROOF" whatever they maybe. I remember a few years ago Spyderco used the driving through the back roads, and thank goodness I had my clipit story. Just another marketing gimmick.
Buy from a stand up company, for stand up products. Don't judge their marketing though, if they stand behind their product and give good service I am sold.
And with regards to the RYAN ex forumite/employee I am unaware of the situation or what happened, but there is alway three sides to a story-yours,theirs and the truth.
Oh and finally it does boggle my mind as to why they have not hired Dialex, the knives he creates are what dreams are made of. If only they made his designs.
"everything else is just a jeep"
I don't know if I understand the post. If your saying that <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>co is to sheeple friendly, and not as agressive as other COs, I disagree. <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>co is fifferent in their marketing. As for the knives look at the knives they call martial blade craft knives and are designed for aggressive use like the Gunting & Chinook! <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>co also has the MBC forum, for those that practice the art. What I like is they offer both sheeple friendly folders & non-sheeple friendly in a wide array of designs, and premium steels. I do admit the catalogue was a little disappointing, but it was missing some knives like the 3D Native. I hope I wasn't confused on the subject matter! RKBA!
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dialex
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First, I think Spyderco is a great company. It has over 20 years of experience to prove that it has chosen the right direction.
It is also true that it is not a perfect company. And this is good. Show me a place where everything works perfect and I'll find someone who is hiding some flaws there.
I don't know much about legal issues. I guess you are right here, as it looks like America became a property of lawyers. Yet, Spyderco makes knives, that's its aim and the reason to exist. So under the pression of the market, no wonder it will make balisongs. It will make autos too if they will be sure they sell. It's the American spirit. I apologize if I offend anyone, but America seems to me as a highly mercantile society. It's not who you are but what you have.
As about me, it is true I applied for a job at Spyderco. I understand they are reluctant. After all, they don't know anything about me, except that I make knife concepts (which, BTW, is NOT my qualification). And they don't have any acceptable method to see if I fit there too. If I was living in The States, I'd go for an interview and maybe work for a month or two so they can make an ideea, but the way things are, you just can't call someone over the pond and tell him after a month "sorry, you don't belong here". It's perfectly understandable and I don't blame them at all.
Yet I am rewarded already. I meet interesting people, I made a lot of great friends and I learned a lot. Not to mention I got lots of spydies (the last to come being a special thank you from Spyderco themselves!)
<font color=blue>I'll be back!</font>
It is also true that it is not a perfect company. And this is good. Show me a place where everything works perfect and I'll find someone who is hiding some flaws there.
I don't know much about legal issues. I guess you are right here, as it looks like America became a property of lawyers. Yet, Spyderco makes knives, that's its aim and the reason to exist. So under the pression of the market, no wonder it will make balisongs. It will make autos too if they will be sure they sell. It's the American spirit. I apologize if I offend anyone, but America seems to me as a highly mercantile society. It's not who you are but what you have.
As about me, it is true I applied for a job at Spyderco. I understand they are reluctant. After all, they don't know anything about me, except that I make knife concepts (which, BTW, is NOT my qualification). And they don't have any acceptable method to see if I fit there too. If I was living in The States, I'd go for an interview and maybe work for a month or two so they can make an ideea, but the way things are, you just can't call someone over the pond and tell him after a month "sorry, you don't belong here". It's perfectly understandable and I don't blame them at all.
Yet I am rewarded already. I meet interesting people, I made a lot of great friends and I learned a lot. Not to mention I got lots of spydies (the last to come being a special thank you from Spyderco themselves!)
<font color=blue>I'll be back!</font>
On the subject of balisongs, Sal is himself a long time balisong collector. He's played with the idea of producing a Spyderco balisong for many years, but he had believed that it would be illegal to manufacture a balisong in Colorado (it is illegal to carry one in public).
Just last year he found out that it would actually be legal menufacture them, which is when he began the Spyderfly projects (two models in development).
Just last year he found out that it would actually be legal menufacture them, which is when he began the Spyderfly projects (two models in development).
They've always treated me right, and I see no reason to think they won't do so in the future.
Cops using a Spyderco doesn't make Spyderco hypocritical. It means that someone at Cops has good taste.
You might say that there legal issues in knife production is oxymoronic but, quite frankly, it's not. It should be, maybe, but it's not. The law does affect knife production. You deal with it and move on, which is what Spyderco is doing. And, for that matter, I don't demand that Levi Jeans start making socks, either.
I'm not sure what you're talking about with the subliminal advertising. Are you annoyed with Java or Spyderco? Maybe I missed the thread on this.
Dialex addressed himself earlier, so I'll skip that, except to say that while he's an awful interesting designer, I don't know nearly enough about the logistics of hiring someone overseas to make me qualified enough to comment on this. If you do, Allen, I'll defer to you on this one.
And as for the 2003 lineup: how exactly are they discontinuing models to serve their own end and not the ELU's end? That'd be horrendous business, and if they were really doing that, they won't be here in two or three years.
The lack of custom collaborations I'll agree with you. Fortunately I don't care. I'd much rather have a Spyderco in house design anyway. I've got no interest in paying for two names on my knife. Just the "Spyderco" is good enough for me.
JamesA,
who just now found out what an augURer is, and doesn't really think he is one, but what the heck, might as well answer.
Edited by - JamesA on 3/24/2003 10:41:32 AM
Cops using a Spyderco doesn't make Spyderco hypocritical. It means that someone at Cops has good taste.
You might say that there legal issues in knife production is oxymoronic but, quite frankly, it's not. It should be, maybe, but it's not. The law does affect knife production. You deal with it and move on, which is what Spyderco is doing. And, for that matter, I don't demand that Levi Jeans start making socks, either.
I'm not sure what you're talking about with the subliminal advertising. Are you annoyed with Java or Spyderco? Maybe I missed the thread on this.
Dialex addressed himself earlier, so I'll skip that, except to say that while he's an awful interesting designer, I don't know nearly enough about the logistics of hiring someone overseas to make me qualified enough to comment on this. If you do, Allen, I'll defer to you on this one.
And as for the 2003 lineup: how exactly are they discontinuing models to serve their own end and not the ELU's end? That'd be horrendous business, and if they were really doing that, they won't be here in two or three years.
The lack of custom collaborations I'll agree with you. Fortunately I don't care. I'd much rather have a Spyderco in house design anyway. I've got no interest in paying for two names on my knife. Just the "Spyderco" is good enough for me.
JamesA,
who just now found out what an augURer is, and doesn't really think he is one, but what the heck, might as well answer.
Edited by - JamesA on 3/24/2003 10:41:32 AM
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java
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- Location: Rosamond - Tropical Paradise without the tropics.....(or the paradise)
JamesA,
I was happy to just let this ride out but sounds like you might enjoy the "tell" from java's point of view. Good on ya! Here's a link to the thread in question.
<a href="http://www.spyderco.com/forum/Topic.asp ... ion"><font color=FF00FF>Does <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>co Use Subliminal Advertising?</a></font>
Unfortunately the link in my post is dead now. It linked to one of those reel-you-in MPGs, that had some subtle examples of purported subliminal messages in advertisements, with a scream/shock ending designed to make you jump and spill your (heaven forbid) coffee. I do not believe in subliminal messaging and the other sites I linked to showed it was a failed advertising ploy that enjoys a resurgence due to our fear of others controlling our thoughts. If you didn't follow the link you might have thought I was serious and many of the responders, including Allen and Sal, thought I was. To see if I could get more people to click the link, I even when back and edited the post to bold, then capitalize, italicize, and otherwise make the words "follow the link" and click the link" stand out from the text. To me, this was further proof on the failure of subliminal advertising. Or maybe, subliminally, I wanted it to fail in some grandiose self-defeating prophecy......
Anyway, good points on Spyderco and their sales ethics. Spyderco is a pretty fair company with good sales and marketing concepts and a good sense of integrity as exemplified by the founder, Sal Glesser. His philosophy is fairly well espoused in "The Spyderco Story - The New Shape of Sharp" and it is reflected well in the way Spyderco is run and whenever Sal drops in on The Forum. Despite good business practices, Spyderco, is after all, only human. Mistakes are made and not everyone is always satisfied. Spyderco/SFO is receptive to most ELU inputs but they have their limits, constraints, and timetables like all production organizations. They still produce reputable and reliable products and make a sincere effort to improve the "breed" though user input from shows, customer service, and this Forum. What more can you ask for and reasonably expect?
I'm another who would love to see Dialex take his place at Spyderco but like you said, he spoke quite well for himself on this.
I don't delve into mysticism, divination, or augury so I'll leave the Shakespearean quotes to Allen. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
RKDA!
<font color="BLUE">"A hole-less knife is soul-less knife is a whole less knife" - Javanese proverb" </font>
Edited by - java on 3/24/2003 2:09:43 PM
I was happy to just let this ride out but sounds like you might enjoy the "tell" from java's point of view. Good on ya! Here's a link to the thread in question.
<a href="http://www.spyderco.com/forum/Topic.asp ... ion"><font color=FF00FF>Does <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>co Use Subliminal Advertising?</a></font>
Unfortunately the link in my post is dead now. It linked to one of those reel-you-in MPGs, that had some subtle examples of purported subliminal messages in advertisements, with a scream/shock ending designed to make you jump and spill your (heaven forbid) coffee. I do not believe in subliminal messaging and the other sites I linked to showed it was a failed advertising ploy that enjoys a resurgence due to our fear of others controlling our thoughts. If you didn't follow the link you might have thought I was serious and many of the responders, including Allen and Sal, thought I was. To see if I could get more people to click the link, I even when back and edited the post to bold, then capitalize, italicize, and otherwise make the words "follow the link" and click the link" stand out from the text. To me, this was further proof on the failure of subliminal advertising. Or maybe, subliminally, I wanted it to fail in some grandiose self-defeating prophecy......
Anyway, good points on Spyderco and their sales ethics. Spyderco is a pretty fair company with good sales and marketing concepts and a good sense of integrity as exemplified by the founder, Sal Glesser. His philosophy is fairly well espoused in "The Spyderco Story - The New Shape of Sharp" and it is reflected well in the way Spyderco is run and whenever Sal drops in on The Forum. Despite good business practices, Spyderco, is after all, only human. Mistakes are made and not everyone is always satisfied. Spyderco/SFO is receptive to most ELU inputs but they have their limits, constraints, and timetables like all production organizations. They still produce reputable and reliable products and make a sincere effort to improve the "breed" though user input from shows, customer service, and this Forum. What more can you ask for and reasonably expect?
I'm another who would love to see Dialex take his place at Spyderco but like you said, he spoke quite well for himself on this.
I don't delve into mysticism, divination, or augury so I'll leave the Shakespearean quotes to Allen. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
RKDA!
<font color="BLUE">"A hole-less knife is soul-less knife is a whole less knife" - Javanese proverb" </font>
Edited by - java on 3/24/2003 2:09:43 PM
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AllenETreat
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java
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Allen!!!!!!
Git behind me er git outta tha way!! Can't believe you've forgotten "The Cause" so soon!! 'Tis the <b>Right to Keep Danes Armed</b> we're fightin' for here!! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Got your package and now I'm real confused. Thanks for all from me and Java the Younger.
RKDA
<font color="BLUE">"A hole-less knife is soul-less knife is a whole less knife" - <i>Javanese proverb"</i><font>
Git behind me er git outta tha way!! Can't believe you've forgotten "The Cause" so soon!! 'Tis the <b>Right to Keep Danes Armed</b> we're fightin' for here!! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Got your package and now I'm real confused. Thanks for all from me and Java the Younger.
RKDA
<font color="BLUE">"A hole-less knife is soul-less knife is a whole less knife" - <i>Javanese proverb"</i><font>
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AllenETreat
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- Location: The Constitution State USA
Java :
If you read my "e"'s ( I KNOW I'm a tad overly literate! ) you'd know that :
1.) Book ( for you )
2.) EnduraHawk = RKDA / Voxie
3.) $10 ( for "the cause" )
Now, case in point ( MUCH pun intended ) :
Benchmade Knife Company ;
Here's a company that doesn't fritter away
precious time debating "legalities" of production ( or sellin' the "product"<img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>, they
make not only folders, but FB's, balisongs &
switchblades for those that want'em. If memory serves me correctly ( I better check with good ol' A.G.Russell on this ) they
( Benchmade ) were around about 3 years before <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> ( correct me please, if I'm wrong )
and have run the gamut of knife production of ALL KINDS hitherto. What I am getting at
is either make the f'ing thing, or DON'T.
And that, in the American capitalist system,
is the bottom line.
AET
If you read my "e"'s ( I KNOW I'm a tad overly literate! ) you'd know that :
1.) Book ( for you )
2.) EnduraHawk = RKDA / Voxie
3.) $10 ( for "the cause" )
Now, case in point ( MUCH pun intended ) :
Benchmade Knife Company ;
Here's a company that doesn't fritter away
precious time debating "legalities" of production ( or sellin' the "product"<img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>, they
make not only folders, but FB's, balisongs &
switchblades for those that want'em. If memory serves me correctly ( I better check with good ol' A.G.Russell on this ) they
( Benchmade ) were around about 3 years before <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> ( correct me please, if I'm wrong )
and have run the gamut of knife production of ALL KINDS hitherto. What I am getting at
is either make the f'ing thing, or DON'T.
And that, in the American capitalist system,
is the bottom line.
AET
Allen you said that this years line up of Spydies is poor, Benchmade hasn't put anything out worthwhile in a few. Just my opinion though. They do have that double bladed axis lock interesting but overpriced, again in my opinion. The last benchmade I bought was 940 Osbourne- great knife they just seem to be reinventing that and the AFCK/Stryker/etc.Look at the website once you narrow down all the options they don't really make that many knives. Now go back five ish years and hold a 875 Sentinel Now that is a Benchmade. I must admit they even make a CQC-7 better than Mr. Emerson's company. All just my opinion though. Good Thread.
"everything else is just a jeep"
"everything else is just a jeep"
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Sword and Shield
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Here's my input, on <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>s in the wrong hands, product lines, and so on.
First off, let's say I own a company that makes weapons, fairly cheap and effective. They're legal for most everyone to own, and have an excellent user following. If I make millions of the things a year, how can I keep some from falling into the wrong hands? Simple math- 1 bad guy on Cops + 1 Hannibal Lecter wannabe / 1,000,000 knives= 1 in 500,000 are used illegally. It happens.
Next up, the product lines. <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> issues new models regularly, though development takes a year or so. So what? If that extra year R&D makes that knife just a bit more secure, think of the injuries that will be prevented.
Now, marketing. I am an everyday user of knives. I don't care if my knife can handle all 230# of me standing on the grips, or if it can stab through a car door (surprisingly easy to do, BTW). All I care is that it WORKS. It may be as ugly as the south end of a northbound bulldog, but that's OK.
Never underestimate the impossible.
First off, let's say I own a company that makes weapons, fairly cheap and effective. They're legal for most everyone to own, and have an excellent user following. If I make millions of the things a year, how can I keep some from falling into the wrong hands? Simple math- 1 bad guy on Cops + 1 Hannibal Lecter wannabe / 1,000,000 knives= 1 in 500,000 are used illegally. It happens.
Next up, the product lines. <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> issues new models regularly, though development takes a year or so. So what? If that extra year R&D makes that knife just a bit more secure, think of the injuries that will be prevented.
Now, marketing. I am an everyday user of knives. I don't care if my knife can handle all 230# of me standing on the grips, or if it can stab through a car door (surprisingly easy to do, BTW). All I care is that it WORKS. It may be as ugly as the south end of a northbound bulldog, but that's OK.
Never underestimate the impossible.
Hi Allen. I'm not sure I completely understand your questions(s). For the sake of discussion, I will try to provide input.
"We ALL likee the knives ( for the most part )
but what of the company? I'm given my opine on this one : Hypocrisy ; I see a company whose intent is to not manufacture knives for
"bad guys", and yet, you can catch one on "forensic files" or "cops". I equate this
to saying the M-16 was made ONLY for "good guys" ( yet look at all the rotten apple's hand's it landed in ; early in the Viet Nam
conflict "Charlie" ( the Viet Cong ) got their hands on some!)"
At Spyderco, we try to do the "right things for the right reasons". Our designs are created to deliver "reliable high performance". This performance is generally sought after more by professionals that need and must rely on that performance. If a "bad guy" (negative intent?) chooses to purchase one of our products, how does that make the company a hypocrite? Your logic confuses me.
"Another disturbing
thing is the so-called "legal issues" of knife production ( oxymoronic, if you ask me!) Look at ALL the competition who(m) has NO PROBLEM producing butterfly knives, switchblades, boot knives, daggers, etc. Then
along comes with a profound idea of producing the fly ( butterfly's -or- balisongs are ILLEGAL in most States of the Union OBTW ) Maybe Sal could "clear the air"
on that".
Companies in Oregon can legally produce autos, butterflies, etc. without local government giving them problems or closing them down. That is why Benchmade moved to Oregon from California. Lester had heard that local law enforcement authorities were "eyeing" his company to confiscate his parts. He moved in one weekend. Spyderco is now dabbling in the butterfly market because the butterfly group over at Bladeforums (a thread Carlos began) provided enough interest and support to at least try to make one. I assure you that if local authorities tell us to stop, we'll have to stop. If no one notices or cares, then we'll continue. Again, I fail to see the "hypocrisy" in this.
"Meebee he'll chime "demand". Another
peeve of mine is Java's claim of "subliminal
suggestion" advertising. NONSENSE! It's aggressive marketing with some new concept(s)
to the "common pocketknife" ( i.e. clip, serrations, hole, etc.)"
Allen, I invented the pocket clip and the opening hole. I was also the first to use serrations on a folding knife and promote the combination. Aggressive marketing is the only way that I know of to get the word out. You know of another? please share.
"As former forumite/employee RYAN stated in closing in his last post: Great product, not-so-great company to work for! Say what you will about me, but I call it like I see it".
Maybe your vision is limited? Ryan was discharged. We have discharged a number of people over the years. We feel that we are fair in our assessments and responses. I believe tht if you discuss Spyderco with any of the 38 empoyees that are here now, you will find more positive than negative. Some have been with us for more than 15 years, many for 10 or more. They seem to feel that Spyderco is a good company to work for. For you to take the rantings of one disharged employee as ultimate fact, is narrow minded at best.
"I finally can't see why DiALEX ( who, BTW submitted some amicable design(s) ( and a resume ) could ( or would ) not be hired by ".
I believe that we have a good relationship with Dialex. We are actually working on one of his designs. Dialex is a very good graphic artist, not a knife designer, which he readily admits. That does not mean that his designs are ergonomic or can even be built. We take a design and make models to determine ergos. When the ergos aren't right, refinemens are necessary. These take time and money.
We get a great many designs offered from many designers. It's not possible to build them all. The cost of introducing a new model into the marketplace runs about $100K per design. A company has to sell a lot of knives to pay for such an investment. Selection must be based on what we think is going to meet the volume to cover the investment.
"I'm also rather disappointed at the 2003 line-up : not much in the way of "custom collaborations" & discontinued some excellent models if only to serve their own end & NOT the ELU. I know you'll say : "NOT my company", but BTW it's "fueled" by ALOT of my $$$"!
We've done more collaborations than any other company. More than 25 to date. As I look through the catalog, I see that about half are collaborations. That's a pretty high number for a company with a high rate of successful "in-house" designs. Disco'd models were disco'd becauswe sales fell off. Sales are goverened by ELUs.
Generally speaking, the "in-house" designs sell better to the ELU than the collaborations by a considerable margin. The "in house" designs also seem to have greater longevity in the marketplace. We have some "in house" designs that have gone 20 years, many have gone 10. Most collaborations slow down in 2 or 3 years.
Perhaps your personal tastes are not aligned with the general ELUs? When sales slow down on a design or pattern, we must move on to new ones. The 2004 line-up is already in motion and again, many changes are coming.
Allen, I appreciate your support, interest and $$'s. Spyderco (and sal) are pretty transparent and we hold truth to be the highest value. I understand that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but to call Spyderco hypocritical, is, in my opinion untrue, unfair and even insulting.
I challenge your statement.
sal
"We ALL likee the knives ( for the most part )
but what of the company? I'm given my opine on this one : Hypocrisy ; I see a company whose intent is to not manufacture knives for
"bad guys", and yet, you can catch one on "forensic files" or "cops". I equate this
to saying the M-16 was made ONLY for "good guys" ( yet look at all the rotten apple's hand's it landed in ; early in the Viet Nam
conflict "Charlie" ( the Viet Cong ) got their hands on some!)"
At Spyderco, we try to do the "right things for the right reasons". Our designs are created to deliver "reliable high performance". This performance is generally sought after more by professionals that need and must rely on that performance. If a "bad guy" (negative intent?) chooses to purchase one of our products, how does that make the company a hypocrite? Your logic confuses me.
"Another disturbing
thing is the so-called "legal issues" of knife production ( oxymoronic, if you ask me!) Look at ALL the competition who(m) has NO PROBLEM producing butterfly knives, switchblades, boot knives, daggers, etc. Then
along comes with a profound idea of producing the fly ( butterfly's -or- balisongs are ILLEGAL in most States of the Union OBTW ) Maybe Sal could "clear the air"
on that".
Companies in Oregon can legally produce autos, butterflies, etc. without local government giving them problems or closing them down. That is why Benchmade moved to Oregon from California. Lester had heard that local law enforcement authorities were "eyeing" his company to confiscate his parts. He moved in one weekend. Spyderco is now dabbling in the butterfly market because the butterfly group over at Bladeforums (a thread Carlos began) provided enough interest and support to at least try to make one. I assure you that if local authorities tell us to stop, we'll have to stop. If no one notices or cares, then we'll continue. Again, I fail to see the "hypocrisy" in this.
"Meebee he'll chime "demand". Another
peeve of mine is Java's claim of "subliminal
suggestion" advertising. NONSENSE! It's aggressive marketing with some new concept(s)
to the "common pocketknife" ( i.e. clip, serrations, hole, etc.)"
Allen, I invented the pocket clip and the opening hole. I was also the first to use serrations on a folding knife and promote the combination. Aggressive marketing is the only way that I know of to get the word out. You know of another? please share.
"As former forumite/employee RYAN stated in closing in his last post: Great product, not-so-great company to work for! Say what you will about me, but I call it like I see it".
Maybe your vision is limited? Ryan was discharged. We have discharged a number of people over the years. We feel that we are fair in our assessments and responses. I believe tht if you discuss Spyderco with any of the 38 empoyees that are here now, you will find more positive than negative. Some have been with us for more than 15 years, many for 10 or more. They seem to feel that Spyderco is a good company to work for. For you to take the rantings of one disharged employee as ultimate fact, is narrow minded at best.
"I finally can't see why DiALEX ( who, BTW submitted some amicable design(s) ( and a resume ) could ( or would ) not be hired by ".
I believe that we have a good relationship with Dialex. We are actually working on one of his designs. Dialex is a very good graphic artist, not a knife designer, which he readily admits. That does not mean that his designs are ergonomic or can even be built. We take a design and make models to determine ergos. When the ergos aren't right, refinemens are necessary. These take time and money.
We get a great many designs offered from many designers. It's not possible to build them all. The cost of introducing a new model into the marketplace runs about $100K per design. A company has to sell a lot of knives to pay for such an investment. Selection must be based on what we think is going to meet the volume to cover the investment.
"I'm also rather disappointed at the 2003 line-up : not much in the way of "custom collaborations" & discontinued some excellent models if only to serve their own end & NOT the ELU. I know you'll say : "NOT my company", but BTW it's "fueled" by ALOT of my $$$"!
We've done more collaborations than any other company. More than 25 to date. As I look through the catalog, I see that about half are collaborations. That's a pretty high number for a company with a high rate of successful "in-house" designs. Disco'd models were disco'd becauswe sales fell off. Sales are goverened by ELUs.
Generally speaking, the "in-house" designs sell better to the ELU than the collaborations by a considerable margin. The "in house" designs also seem to have greater longevity in the marketplace. We have some "in house" designs that have gone 20 years, many have gone 10. Most collaborations slow down in 2 or 3 years.
Perhaps your personal tastes are not aligned with the general ELUs? When sales slow down on a design or pattern, we must move on to new ones. The 2004 line-up is already in motion and again, many changes are coming.
Allen, I appreciate your support, interest and $$'s. Spyderco (and sal) are pretty transparent and we hold truth to be the highest value. I understand that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but to call Spyderco hypocritical, is, in my opinion untrue, unfair and even insulting.
I challenge your statement.
sal
-
Sword and Shield
- Member
- Posts: 2050
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: USA
One more point, then I'm done, I swear. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
This regards marketing. Sal, your marketing department deserves to be commended in my book, not harangued as some suggest. I dislike negative advertising. (Cold Steel, for example. Show me how good YOUR knife is, not how you can break others!)
I don't believe I have ever seen a negative <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> ad, and the old photog in me rejoices to see some of the twists put into simple pictures. The Lum ads set in the forest are art, plain and simple.
Keep on going like you're going, all's well in this ELU's mind! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Never underestimate the impossible.
This regards marketing. Sal, your marketing department deserves to be commended in my book, not harangued as some suggest. I dislike negative advertising. (Cold Steel, for example. Show me how good YOUR knife is, not how you can break others!)
I don't believe I have ever seen a negative <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> ad, and the old photog in me rejoices to see some of the twists put into simple pictures. The Lum ads set in the forest are art, plain and simple.
Keep on going like you're going, all's well in this ELU's mind! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Never underestimate the impossible.