Tri Angle Stone Diamond 204D vs Cubic Boron Nitride 204CBN

[tjkoko]

For establishing a new bevel which Tri-Angle stone is recommended, the Diamond 204D or the Cubic Boron Nitride 204CBN?? I'm uncertain of the advantages of either one.

[farnorthdan]

I have both and can't really tell the difference

[Ric]

I have both, there is no difference.
I would buy the cheaper one.

They will get smoother over time and remember they are only 400grit.
Use no pressure at all.

[sal]

Hi Tjkoko,

Welcome to our forum.

We've been making diamonds for our Sharpmaker since 1981. Even before we had the medium grit stones, we had diamond sleeves. When we could, we made diamond triangles. The problem with diamonds is that they are attached to a steel embryo using a plating process. The diamonds are very hard. Harder than the steel embryo or the plating material that adheres the diamond to the steel. People using the diamonds to sharpen will generally press too hard, which loosens the diamonds from the plated material so longevity is not as desired. Diamonds work best with a very light touch, as the diamonds are much harder than the blade, it doesn't take much pressure to be effective. Getting customers to do this has been very challenging. Most people think (or simply intuit) that "if I press harder, they will cut faster".

CBN has some advantages over diamonds in cutting steel and it is hard enough to sharpen any steel, I felt that if we made our triangles in CBN as well as diamonds, people could try both and in time we might see a difference or advantage to one or the other.

I use CBN and I also use diamonds, but I use a very light touch and take the time to do a careful job not to damage the diamond / CBN. I believe that the CBN might be competitive in that it cuts as well, and I believe adheres better to the plating. Hope that helps?

sal

[SpyderEdgeForever]

sal, the chemical vapor deposition process is a pretty good diamond-maker, right?

have you ever done tests on the diamond sleeves and triangles and other parts to test their brittleness? Just wondering what you discovered.

[Deadboxhero]

Hi Tjkoko,

Welcome to our forum.

We've been making diamonds for our Sharpmaker since 1981. Even before we had the medium grit stones, we had diamond sleeves. When we could, we made diamond triangles. The problem with diamonds is that they are attached to a steel embryo using a plating process. The diamonds are very hard. Harder than the steel embryo or the plating material that adheres the diamond to the steel. People using the diamonds to sharpen will generally press too hard, which loosens the diamonds from the plated material so longevity is not as desired. Diamonds work best with a very light touch, as the diamonds are much harder than the blade, it doesn't take much pressure to be effective. Getting customers to do this has been very challenging. Most people think (or simply intuit) that "if I press harder, they will cut faster".

CBN has some advantages over diamonds in cutting steel and it is hard enough to sharpen any steel, I felt that if we made our triangles in CBN as well as diamonds, people could try both and in time we might see a difference or advantage to one or the other.

I use CBN and I also use diamonds, but I use a very light touch and take the time to do a careful job not to damage the diamond / CBN. I believe that the CBN might be competitive in that it cuts as well, and I believe adheres better to the plating. Hope that helps?

sal

I was always curious why both were sold. Thanks Sal

[Wartstein]

I may revive this thread, since I am thinking about getting either diamonds or CBNs for my sharpmaker.

Main (or even only) purpose would be reprofiling not TOO hard steels (I am more of a VG 10 / S30 V guy, don´t need anything harder really).

Any new insight / experiences which one works better / faster? I´d appreciate any input, also about other advantages / disadvantages the one might have over the other (longevity...)

Also, I sometimes read that BOTH could/should be even more abrasive when it comes to reprofiling - true?

[Deadboxhero]

I may revive this thread, since I am thinking about getting either diamonds or CBNs for my sharpmaker.

Main (or even only) purpose would be reprofiling not TOO hard steels (I am more of a VG 10 / S30 V guy, don´t need anything harder really).

Any new insight / experiences which one works better / faster? I´d appreciate any input, also about other advantages / disadvantages the one might have over the other (longevity...)

Also, I sometimes read that BOTH could/should be even more abrasive when it comes to reprofiling - true?

I have the double stuff 2, I've worn out the CBN plate but got my share of sharpening on it well over +100 knives.

There is no perceivably difference I felt when coated on a plate.

Keep in mind there are several different types of CBN and diamond organized and sorted from diamond/CBN manufacturs not just by grit but by shape and friability. So peoples experiences from ALL available products will vary with longevity and cutting speed from how fast it breaks down and the shape of cutting surfaces (facets) on the grains etc.

CBN abrasive by itself also costs more to buy than diamond abrasive.


I selected CBN in my Vitrified bonded stones because I liked the cut better. The CBN was able to cut anything but it didn't shred the steel up like the diamond so I preferred the CBN.

In a non bonded stone it's probably less significant because the abrasive grains are poking out more and fully penatrate into the bevel making deep scratches regardless. Another reason to use light touch with coated stones.

Personally, I use coated stones like a consumable so I add pressure to speed up the sharpening and tear em out faster. Time is money.

That's the advantages to bonding in ceramic/vitrifiing is that the abrasive is held onto better so they don't tear out and a little more pressure/force can be added to speed up the sharpening.

So vitrified acutually cuts faster than a coated plate with more longevity and a cleaner finish since the abrasive grains are tucked down a little so that they don't fully imbed into the bevel.

I couldn't convince anyone to make them because of cost so I had them made myself.

[p_atrick]

I couldn't convince anyone to make them because of cost so I had them made myself.

When it comes to this knife stuff, you don't seem to half-a$$ much of anything.

[Deadboxhero]

I couldn't convince anyone to make them because of cost so I had them made myself.

When it comes to this knife stuff, you don't seem to half-a$$ much of anything.

It's a lack of sanity.
Pure madness :p :D