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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:44 pm
by JimP
I don't know how all knife companies deal with spares but will display the ones I do know.

ZT/Kershaw send out most parts for free, an excellent service that puts them at the top of the heap, things like fancy pivots and milled clips need to be paid for, which is very fair.

Benchmade send out many parts for free, though some internal parts are considered on a case by case basis but may require the knife to be sent in, still a very good service.

CRK will send out many parts for a relatively small charge but some parts require the knife to go back to base, good service but the requirement of ~$70 return postage is not much fun for international warranty work.

EKA really work with their customers and have sent out all parts for free but not sure what their official policy is.

As an international I'd appreciate easy access to spare parts but won't offer any real detailed opinion as I know it will make little difference in Spydercos decision making. Honestly, I think it's better to just ask Spyderco, where do you want to be on this issue? Where do you position yourself in the above or the rest of the worlds knife market? Doing some market research and seeing what is commonly accepted practices so that you can better position yourself for the future. Importantly, what would you like to have available to you as a customer, sending a product in with expensive back and forth postage, or purchasing a relatively cheap part to fix your issue? make sure you include the opinions of the guy's working the floor, the average blue collar worker, not just the financial gurus :p

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:40 pm
by MichaelScott
I’m wondering, again, if Spyderco sets up all of the infrastructure, processes, inventories, personnel and investment necessary to supply spare parts to the world how much of that cost must be passed on to the customers. It’s a business and has to follow certain business fundamentals to stay in business. It’s a serious question.

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:40 pm
by sal
Lotsa good stuff to think about.

Rollout and Ulix, Welcome to our forum.

I think that 30-40 new models per year plus CQI significantly adds many parts. It's much easier to have available parts if models are not changed through CQI. So which is more valuable to you, CQI and many new models or consistent parts over the years?

We have a large variety in size of models as well. Many knives from makers in many countries. The use the screws available to them. Hard to standardize screws under those circumstances?

sal

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:46 pm
by BrianMcCord
Just an idea, but maybe the many different manufacturers can just supply the hardware measurements to spyderco, and spyderco can relay these measurements to the end user so that they may purchase whatever piece of hardware they require. This solution requires no additional infrastructure, and I'm sure MOST people wouldn't be too put off by having to spend a few bucks to get the parts they need from an online screw/hardware vendor.

Just a quick idea, not sure if it's a good one...?

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:48 pm
by Cycletroll
Thanks for your insights Sal.
For me I would rather see a continual refinement of a given model and ongoing parts availability than a continual parade of new models. I think afi's lust for new and different could easily be accomplished with variations in blade steel and scale material thus simplifying warehousing of replacement parts.

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:16 pm
by MichaelScott
For me, Spyderco is in the knife business, not the standardization of screws and parts business for a few people who don’t want to use the processes and procedures already established to resolve their problems. Spyderco is noted and globally respected as one of the premier and innovative companies going, not just among knife makes, but as a company organization. Why? Going beyond the ordinary and expected. Resolving to be the rare kind of business that listens to its customers, fosters innovation, the use of new and often advanced technologies and materials, and returning value and resources into the community. A business that doesn’t stand still or bow completely to the profit motive by taking the safe road.

“…a continual refinement of a given model and ongoing parts availablity…”is a bad idea. Hell, we’d still be driving ‘56 Chevys if that was the driving business model. We’d have cheap parts for them, and lots of them too, but so what?

I know, from all the sturm und drang that’s accompanied this thread that a few vocal individuals want easy and cheap access to screws and washers and similar odds and ends, spare parts they say, because, you know, it’s too hard or expensive to solve that little problem themselves. Spyderco should do that for them.

No. Just no.

Spyderco is one of the best knife companies on the planet. It’s not a spare parts warehouse for people who won’t use the avenues already established to fix their knife problems. Nor should it become an ordinary ho-hum small minded blade factory.

I hope I’ve made myself clear.

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:54 pm
by MichaelScott
clovehitch wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:39 pm
MichaelScott wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:16 pm
I hope I’ve made myself clear.
Of this, I am certain.

Supplying literature on the dimensions of parts doesn't seem like it would cause Spyderco to go bankrupt. They'd probably sell a few more knives because of it. But hey, what do I know. Perhaps it's better off being a mystery. Plus, I can't think of anything more fun than tossing one of your favorite knives that you use every day in the mailbox.

One side seems to say "it would be nice to have access to spare parts in some way" and the other says "You whiners are lucky Spyderco even exists. If you weird customer people have any suggestions, make sure you formally type them up, print them out on 8x11 paper, fold it up neatly, business-style, put in an stamped envelope, and place it directly into a paper shredder."

Joking aside, this issue seems way more controversial than it needs to be. I will always support Sypderco's decisions. And we certainly are lucky that they handle business in the manner they do. But I don't think the individuals who desire some form of access to spare parts are out of line, nor are they asking for the world.
I guess I didn’t make myself as clear as I thought. What some people are asking Spyderco to do isn’t simple, easy or without cost to both Spyderco and their customers. “Desiring some form of access to spare parts” isn’t the issue. Insisting that Spyderco provide them is. Spyderco may decide to attempt that. Or not. I think it is a bad idea.

And your remark about suggestions going into the shredder wasn’t necessary. This is supposed to be a discussion. You know, an airing of various ideas and opinions.

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:14 am
by Bloke
clovehitch wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:17 pm
I'm one of the ones backing spyderco here. I respect their decisions. I just believe how promptly and passionately those who desire access to spare parts are met with opposition is both surprising and unnecessary.
It too certainly back Spyderco’s ultimate decision, win, loose or draw and it won’t influence my decision in buying Spyderco products one way or another. :)

It is however a little sad when the people who have easy access to Spyderco services tell the ones who have little to no access to go take a running jump. :confused:

You’d think that fellow enthusiasts would sympathise even if just a little. :(

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:57 am
by MichaelScott
I sympathize and I see this as a cost-benefit ratio analysis. The benefits to a small number of customers would be easier access to a number (as yet undefined number) of spare (also undefined) parts. Benefits to Spyderco would be a higher perception of customer service among those people wanting parts, and to a lesser degree, everyone else.

Costs would be the customer having to find the required parts specifications and then source them without Spyderco's assistance, or incur significant cost and time to return the defective knife to Spyderco. Costs to Spyderco have already been enumerated. They would be significant.

Which, then, makes sense from Spyderco's perspective?

The idea of collecting all the specification data for all Spyderco knives in all variants made any time in all locations, organizing that in an online database then maintaining it for accuracy and updates would be no small matter either.

There may be other solutions that have a tolerable cost-benefit ratio that would be way out of kilter for either side.

Any other ideas?

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:26 am
by BrianMcCord
MichaelScott wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:57 am
I sympathize and I see this as a cost-benefit ratio analysis. The benefits to a small number of customers would be easier access to a number (as yet undefined number) of spare (also undefined) parts. Benefits to Spyderco would be a higher perception of customer service among those people wanting parts, and to a lesser degree, everyone else.

Costs would be the customer having to find the required parts specifications and then source them without Spyderco's assistance, or incur significant cost and time to return the defective knife to Spyderco. Costs to Spyderco have already been enumerated. They would be significant.

Which, then, makes sense from Spyderco's perspective?

The idea of collecting all the specification data for all Spyderco knives in all variants made any time in all locations, organizing that in an online database then maintaining it for accuracy and updates would be no small matter either.

There may be other solutions that have a tolerable cost-benefit ratio that would be way out of kilter for either side.

Any other ideas?
Do you have any ideas?

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:41 am
by MichaelScott
I think Spyderco should work closely with their distributors outside the USA to find more equitable solutions to their customer issues. Supplying parts or parts specifications is a rat hole down which I would not care to venture. And, that doesn’t resolve the initial issues Sal brought forward which are the rather large number of knives returned to Spyderco for warranty repair that have been damaged by their users, and that supplying parts or specifications will encourage knife owners to take them apart and, in many cases, fail to reassemble them correctly, thereby creating the issue we are discussing here.

Resolve, as well as can be done and still maintain a viable business, those issues where they occcur at the best convenience and lowest cost to the customer, recognizing that there will still be a cost involved.

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:53 am
by BrianMcCord
MichaelScott wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:41 am
I think Spyderco should work closely with their distributors outside the USA to find more equitable solutions to their customer issues. Supplying parts or parts specifications is a rat hole down which I would not care to venture. And, that doesn’t resolve the initial issues Sal brought forward which are the rather large number of knives returned to Spyderco for warranty repair that have been damaged by their users, and that supplying parts or specifications will encourage knife owners to take them apart and, in many cases, fail to reassemble them correctly, thereby creating the issue we are discussing here.

Resolve, as well as can be done and still maintain a viable business, those issues where they occcur at the best convenience and lowest cost to the customer, recognizing that there will still be a cost involved.
This is extremely vague, and not a solution. You are not going to change behavior (taking apart knives) with policy.

Again, do you have any ideas other than 'Spyderco should work with distributors...' (Vague)...?

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:33 am
by Cycletroll
You know Michael I appreciate your passion but yours are not the only "good" ideas. You might want to keep some perspective on how to have a discussion. "This is supposed to be a discussion. You know, an airing of various ideas and opinions". That doesn't mean calling other peoples suggestions a "bad idea".
You come off as pontificating as though only what you think is sensible.
Your evaluation that warehousing parts would be complex and expensive is, no doubt, an accurate one.
But to equate this tact as being like Cuba and only driving old Chevy's is a stretch. Only making a few models and evolving them is one strategy (which Benchmade does fairly effectively I might add) and doing the opposite is running dangerously close to planned obsolescence. I would suggest a happy medium. Spyderco's innovation and pioneering of materials and technology is one of the things that makes them great. It would also be nice to be able to get parts for an heirloom quality well engineered tool so it can be maintained for a long time.
I really don't know what course for Sal to follow in regards to customers trashing their knives due to inept wrenching. Maybe provide parts but mark them up enough that it helps defray costs? In any case Sal Glesser strikes me as an eminently capable business man with a good head on his shoulders and I feel confident he will make a sound decision. Also I greatly appreciate that he actually solicits input from the community. It is one element of customer service that is truly unique in our modern world.

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:46 pm
by MichaelScott
I didn’t say mine were the only good ideas. If I think you (the generic “you”) has a bad idea I am free to say so. I have strong opinions and if you (the specific “you”) think that is pontificating, I don’t mind. Open discussions permit the clash of differing ideas and opinions, and occasionally, very occasionally, ideas get changed as a result. That’s my perspective on discussions.

I still think from a cost-benefit perspective all this parts supply business is a bad idea. Your mileage, obviously, differs and your considered opinion is welcome.

An addendum. I think I’ve said about all I have to say on this topic, so I’m going to withdraw from further discussions. If anyone wants to continue off-forum, send me a PM or email and we might be able to continue.

thanks.

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:01 pm
by BrianMcCord
MichaelScott wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:46 pm
I didn’t say mine were the only good ideas. If I think you (the generic “you”) has a bad idea I am free to say so. I have strong opinions and if you (the specific “you”) think that is pontificating, I don’t mind. Open discussions permit the clash of differing ideas and opinions, and occasionally, very occasionally, ideas get changed as a result. That’s my perspective on discussions.

I still think from a cost-benefit perspective all this parts supply business is a bad idea. Your mileage, obviously, differs and your considered opinion is welcome.

An addendum. I think I’ve said about all I have to say on this topic, so I’m going to withdraw from further discussions. If anyone wants to continue off-forum, send me a PM or email and we might be able to continue.

thanks.
You aren't providing any ideas, just repeating that you don't think it's a good idea. I think this is what he's referring to...?

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:52 pm
by EngDevGr3
I think you guys are onto something with this idea. As others have said, start with the Golden and other top selling models.
As far as passing on the cost, I think in most cases it would still outweigh the alternatives and still be worth it. It could even start out as simple as email and phone orders only in the beginning to ensure the right part is being ordered. This would save on return costs, and that hassle.
Overall, you guys obviously know how to run a business, so no need for that input from me. I do think it is fantastic that you guys ask the customers!
Final word, I think it would be a great idea.

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:13 am
by jpm2
Why are people side tracking with concerns of parts availability?
All indications are, Spyderco has the parts, or can source them into their hands. If not, I'm sure Sal would say so, and there would be no warranty/repair service for damaged/missing parts.
The question was, "Collecting and shipping parts overseas is expensive. Will you pay for that service?" This one was answered yes by our overseas neighbors.

Can we move on?
The other questions were:
What model do you have?
What variation do you have?
Do you have a counterfeit?

BTW, can we keep the subjects of "Shipping of internal parts" and Taking apart knives" seperate so the thread doesn't get more off track and cluttered?

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:36 am
by SC_PATRIOT
Hugaso wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:49 pm
Wow.

Personally, I have no interest in ever purchasing replacement parts. I completely understand Spyderco's existing policy.

However, I think it's very admirable of you sal to open this topic to discussion/consideration. You and Eric keeping doing what you do, because you folks are the best.
The above is 100% true and that's why I copied it.
I would like to add the following:

1. I believe it would be too daunting of a task to keep up with all models and custom runs.
2. Yes other manufacturers do offer these options but other manufacturers don't offer nearly as many models and custom designs.
3. I believe to even keep up with replacement parts shouldnt be even an option because I believe it would take away from new designs and costs for Spyderco don't outweight the "wants" of what I think is the few.

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:38 pm
by Tims
I recieved a package from Benchmade today in response to a request for a deep carry clip and 2 phosphur bronze washers.

They sent me 2 clips(black and polished) with 2 sets of screws to match and 3 washers. Free, no questions asked to Australia.

Re: Shipping of internal parts

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:26 am
by tonijedi
Some years ago I had SOG shipping me internal parts for free. They told me to send the knife in but I replied I'm in Europe and shopping costs would be quite substantial so they sent me the parts.
I understand Spydeco has a lot of models but I'd be happy if at least the screws were available. Most posts asking for parts are either flipper bearings or screws.