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Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:22 pm
by sal
Taking apart knives – part 2

I’d like to thank all of you for the great information on the issue mentioned. My primary purpose for the thread was more to raise awareness that it is a problem and hope that just the greater awareness would help contribute to reducing the problem. Many people didn’t ever realize it was a problem.
I stayed out of the discussion because I really needed your input without my opinions involved. With the many posts, I have a lot to study.

FYI, we don’t plan to pin our knives or make it impossible for you to take them apart. We will continually try to make them stronger so if you do take them apart, it will be more difficult to damage them. (Eg: the case of the flippers & the washers). Trying to add something to determine “IF” they were taken apart is probably not something we can expect dealers to pay much attention to, especially dealers like Amazon. Also it becomes a “policing action” which has its own issues.

I would hope that you will discourage others from returning tampered knives and if you were doing it, you now know it is a problem.

Fruitful discussion. Thanx much. (I will be discussing the shipping of internal parts on another thread).

sal

Re: Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:32 pm
by jpm2
I agree that dealers like amazon will ignore the sticker. I suspect they don't even look to see if it's the same model knife that shipped out, when they get a return.

Re: Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:40 pm
by TriggerThumb
Sal, every time you post I want to buy another knife! You sure do right by your customers.

Re: Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:27 pm
by embry386
FYI, we don’t plan to pin our knives or make it impossible for you to take them apart.
Awesome, that was what I was most worried might happen, and it's a relief to know it's unlikely to come to pass. Best of luck working out a way to get everything sorted out :spyder:

Re: Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:57 pm
by ChrisinHove
Thank you for asking for our views. I hope it helps a little. I wasn't aware of the returns issue, but it does explain some of the strange complaints we see here, such as "threads stripped from new".

Re: Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:50 pm
by vivi
I can't believe people return knives they take apart. If I do anything other than take a knife out of the box, open and close it a few times, and rub my thumb over the edge to test it, it's mine. Anything else is incredibly disrespectful to every party involved in getting the product to me.

I've had knives that ended up being too small for me that looked big enough on paper. Those I trade or sell myself, I'd feel bad returning a knife for something like that even.

It's unfortunate there are those who feel differently.

Re: Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:54 am
by timlara
That is actually one of the #1 reasons I don't buy any knives from Amazon. Their return policy is WAY too liberal. I wouldn't really trust anything from them that's not factory sealed. Not worth it to me to save a couple of bucks...although I suppose if you do get a tampered knife, it is super easy to return it again! :)

Re: Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:40 am
by vivi
I've only ordered fixed blades from amazon so I haven't run into that issue. It's very rare their prices are significantly better than knifeworks, newgraham etc. these days.

Re: Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:49 am
by curlyhairedboy
I learned my lesson about ordering from amazon after getting a few 'lemons' - obviously returned - on the hunt for my first spyderco....

Re: Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:35 am
by MichaelScott
It’s a big world. I’ve had a number of Spydercos from Amazon over the years and a ton of other stuff. Only one, a Byrd, was obviously used. Easy return for a new one though.

Re: Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:32 am
by Tucson Tom
Ah, yes Amazon. I buy lots of stuff from them, but never knives. Not anymore that is. First there was the Cat I ordered and got shipped a Chicago.
Second there was a knife from their "open box" Amazon Warehouse. Somebody had purchased a genuine article and then returned a Chinese knockoff, which was being sold then to me. Both were handled quickly and without question by Amazon's return policies, but I decided that enough was enough and now buy from one of the usual suppliers people on this group use, even if it involves spending a few more dollars.

On a bit different topic. It is important for us ELU's to realize the importance of the relationship Spyderco has to maintain with their distributors. Not being a businessman, I don't full grasp this, but I know it is vital and there are issues there that we ELU's aren't usually even aware of.

Re: Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:39 am
by Evil D
Tucson Tom wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:32 am

On a bit different topic. It is important for us ELU's to realize the importance of the relationship Spyderco has to maintain with their distributors. Not being a businessman, I don't full grasp this, but I know it is vital and there are issues there that we ELU's aren't usually even aware of.
It's far more delicate than it may seem, and depending on the company and the product, the manufacturer may very easily get bullied into accepting lower profits just to keep their product in stores. For example, Walmart has Coke by the balls, they literally tell Coke what they'll pay for their product and Coke deals with it because they move so much product that if Walmart actually pulled Coke off the shelves it would cripple them. I have no doubt that similar relationships exist with the larger knife vendors and Amazon in particular are a giant when it comes to online sales so it would be a huge hit if Spyderco lost them as a dealer.

Re: Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:02 pm
by curlyhairedboy
Evil D wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:39 am
Tucson Tom wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:32 am

On a bit different topic. It is important for us ELU's to realize the importance of the relationship Spyderco has to maintain with their distributors. Not being a businessman, I don't full grasp this, but I know it is vital and there are issues there that we ELU's aren't usually even aware of.
It's far more delicate than it may seem, and depending on the company and the product, the manufacturer may very easily get bullied into accepting lower profits just to keep their product in stores. For example, Walmart has Coke by the balls, they literally tell Coke what they'll pay for their product and Coke deals with it because they move so much product that if Walmart actually pulled Coke off the shelves it would cripple them. I have no doubt that similar relationships exist with the larger knife vendors and Amazon in particular are a giant when it comes to online sales so it would be a huge hit if Spyderco lost them as a dealer.
yeah. Amazon may be able to process super easy returns, but they can't assure that you're receiving the genuine article. Works well for non-counterfeited stuff.

Re: Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:47 pm
by MichaelScott
Amazon rings up literally millions of transactions every day. It is no wonder that mistakes happen and crooks manage to take a certain advantage, but on a “per capita” basis I suspect Amazon is no better or worse than other online retailers, knife dealers included. Until there is actual data, trashing Amazon (or any retailer, for that matter) is an exercise in hearsay and rumor.

Caveat emptor

Re: Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:36 pm
by BrianMcCord
Amazon sucks for knives. I got a Kershaw leek in a Spyderco Mantra box.

Now, to wait for a certain someone to slay my opinion, while providing his own opinion...

Re: Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:01 pm
by Bloke
BrianMcCord wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:36 pm
Amazon sucks for knives. I got a Kershaw leek in a Spyderco Mantra box.

Now, to wait for a certain someone to slay my opinion, while providing his own opinion...
No ... ! That's uncanny! :eek:

My Mantra came in a Kershaw Leek box. :confused:

Can you please send me the Mantra box? :)

Re: Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:28 pm
by BrianMcCord
Bloke wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:01 pm
BrianMcCord wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:36 pm
Amazon sucks for knives. I got a Kershaw leek in a Spyderco Mantra box.

Now, to wait for a certain someone to slay my opinion, while providing his own opinion...
No ... ! That's uncanny! :eek:

My Mantra came in a Kershaw Leek box. :confused:

Can you please send me the Mantra box? :)
This is getting out of hand...we've both fallen off of the 'serious train', now I can't tell when you're kidding! Hahahaha :D

I wasn't thrilled to get a leek instead of a mantra, so back it went. If you do need a box, however, I wouldn't mind sending you my mantra box.

Edited for coherency, lol

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:23 am
by Evil D
The way Amazon works is, they have distribution centers all over the place. These are essentially huge versions of what you might see in the back room of Target or Walmart. They have teams of "pickers" who go around pulling items from bar coded bins and then another team that packs and labels them for shipping. These teams of people work a very fast paced job, and they do NOT check items inside boxes, they likely would have no idea if a knife were damaged or even the correct box to go with the knife. So, if a person wanted to rip off Amazon by swapping knives or returning one that is jacked up, it is extremely easy to do because those returns get processed and go right back into the bins the same way they came out of them and then get sent right back out to the next guy, literally over and over. If you bought a "used" knife from Amazon, I can just about guarantee that you are not the first person to get screwed and return it.

On the flip side, there apparently are "vendors" on Amazon similarly to how there are on eBay, and you might have better quality control and such if you buy through one of those. But, you're also equally at risk of getting a counterfeit through them just because that may be what they're selling in the first place (whether knowingly or not), and you may also not get the easy return process through them that you get if you buy from "Amazon fulfillment". I had to return a Leatherman to one of these vendors once and it took a solid month to get my money back AFTER they had received my package.

So yeah, I buy a whole lot of stuff from Amazon, but anything that can be counterfeited or things that are known to be taken apart and screwed with are things I avoid. I know many people still do and many people have had good luck doing so, but for me it just isn't worth the risk and my time is worth another $20 or whatever the difference may be vs BHQ/KC/etc.

Re:

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:30 pm
by Canazes9
Evil D wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:23 am
The way Amazon works is, they have distribution centers all over the place. These are essentially huge versions of what you might see in the back room of Target or Walmart. They have teams of "pickers" who go around pulling items from bar coded bins and then another team that packs and labels them for shipping. These teams of people work a very fast paced job, and they do NOT check items inside boxes, they likely would have no idea if a knife were damaged or even the correct box to go with the knife. So, if a person wanted to rip off Amazon by swapping knives or returning one that is jacked up, it is extremely easy to do because those returns get processed and go right back into the bins the same way they came out of them and then get sent right back out to the next guy, literally over and over. If you bought a "used" knife from Amazon, I can just about guarantee that you are not the first person to get screwed and return it.

On the flip side, there apparently are "vendors" on Amazon similarly to how there are on eBay, and you might have better quality control and such if you buy through one of those. But, you're also equally at risk of getting a counterfeit through them just because that may be what they're selling in the first place (whether knowingly or not), and you may also not get the easy return process through them that you get if you buy from "Amazon fulfillment". I had to return a Leatherman to one of these vendors once and it took a solid month to get my money back AFTER they had received my package.

So yeah, I buy a whole lot of stuff from Amazon, but anything that can be counterfeited or things that are known to be taken apart and screwed with are things I avoid. I know many people still do and many people have had good luck doing so, but for me it just isn't worth the risk and my time is worth another $20 or whatever the difference may be vs BHQ/KC/etc.
Call your credit card company and you will have your refund instantaneously.

David

Re: Taking apart knives - part 2

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:56 am
by DougC-3
sal wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:22 pm
Taking apart knives – part 2

I’d like to thank all of you for the great information on the issue mentioned.
{...}
Fruitful discussion. Thanx much. (I will be discussing the shipping of internal parts on another thread).

sal

Thanks for asking, Sal! One thing we always have plenty of around here is opinions :D