Taking apart knives - part 2

[MichaelScott]

Wiha 36392 L-Wrench Set, Torx, Short Arm, 7 Piece https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002QV0FGA/re ... RBbQJHP7D8

[jpm2]

Wiha 36392 L-Wrench Set, Torx, Short Arm, 7 Piece https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002QV0FGA/re ... RBbQJHP7D8

I like that set.

[skybladefromthe]

Hi. Is there a good source for black PM2 scale and pivot screws someone would recommend? I am parting together a DLC M4 into red scales and black hardware would be a nice finishing accent. I have checked out ebay, and several knife parts stores and I haven't seen what I'm looking for. Do you have to get titanium and anodize them black? Thanks for any advice. I hope this is a good place to ask, if not please direct me to a better thread. Thanks! Drew

[rabbitanarchy14]

Taking apart knives – part 2

I’d like to thank all of you for the great information on the issue mentioned. My primary purpose for the thread was more to raise awareness that it is a problem and hope that just the greater awareness would help contribute to reducing the problem. Many people didn’t ever realize it was a problem.
I stayed out of the discussion because I really needed your input without my opinions involved. With the many posts, I have a lot to study.

FYI, we don’t plan to pin our knives or make it impossible for you to take them apart. We will continually try to make them stronger so if you do take them apart, it will be more difficult to damage them. (Eg: the case of the flippers & the washers). Trying to add something to determine “IF” they were taken apart is probably not something we can expect dealers to pay much attention to, especially dealers like Amazon. Also it becomes a “policing action” which has its own issues.

I would hope that you will discourage others from returning tampered knives and if you were doing it, you now know it is a problem.

Fruitful discussion. Thanx much. (I will be discussing the shipping of internal parts on another thread).

sal

i am good with that not pinning handles so we can take them apart and repair or maintain them. my question actually is if you are not going to pin the handles so we can still take them apart, then why do you still put a bevel on lanyard tubes so it makes it harder to take apart or for that matter something absolutely everyone has a complaint with is spydercos use of red loctite. i am very happy that you want to let us maintain our knives and so you wont pin them but what about the rest.
my 2 favorite knives you designed, you are awesome and made spyderco awesome. plz

[RustyIron]

FYI, we don’t plan to pin our knives or make it impossible for you to take them apart.

I'm confused. I just got my first Spyderco, a Manix 2Lightweight. It's held together with aluminum rivets. I'd really like to take this apart. There's nothing technically wrong with it, but I can make a little better... or more to my liking.

What do you guys do in such a situation? Drill these out and get new rivets? Replace them with screws? Where can I get this hardware?

[sal]

We pin some of our knives and will more than likely pin more in the future. We just won't pin all of them. Not everyone wants to take their knives apart to make them more to their liking.

sal

[Surfingringo]

I might be the exception but I’d be fine with pinned construction, even on my Salt folders. I would still always want a screw pivot so I could loosen it on rare occasions to blow the dried fish goo or occasional stubborn fish scale out but other than that I’ve never needed to fully disassemble a knife. I get my folders pretty dirty but it’s never anything that can’t be remedied with a garden hose and a high pressure nozzle.

[MichaelScott]

I agree. Although I can take a Spyderco screwed construction knife apart, I really have had no need to. I also like pivot screws for blade adjustment and to help clean that area.

[Bloke]

We pin some of our knives and will more than likely pin more in the future. We just won't pin all of them. Not everyone wants to take their knives apart to make them more to their liking.

sal

Hey Mr Glesser, out of curiosity, is there any significant production cost saving one way or another? Do pinned knife cost less to produce and visa versa?

[sal]

Hi Bloke,

If the pinned knives go right together first time with no redo, they do have some economic advantage and can be sold less expensively. They also require less space.

sal

[Enactive]

Thanks, Sal, for being so responsive to our inquiring minds!

How do you mean that pinned knives require less space? Space for parts inventory, manufacturing, storage, physical space in the knife (knife design)? This is quite interesting, as I would have mostly thought about the direct economic costs but not as much about space requirements other than knife design. Curious to hear and thanks in advance.

Hi Bloke,

If the pinned knives go right together first time with no redo, they do have some economic advantage and can be sold less expensively. They also require less space.

sal

[Bloke]

Hi Bloke,

If the pinned knives go right together first time with no redo, they do have some economic advantage and can be sold less expensively. They also require less space.

sal

Many Thanks, Mr Glesser!

[Papaw]

Hello all! I’m brand new here, looking around and getting familiar, finding information/answers, etc. I can’t find the part 1 of this post. Could someone please help me with a link? Thanks in advance.

[TazKristi]

Hello all! I’m brand new here, looking around and getting familiar, finding information/answers, etc. I can’t find the part 1 of this post. Could someone please help me with a link? Thanks in advance.

Hi, Papaw:
Welcome to our forum. The first part of this discussion can be found here, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78032&p=1213286&hil ... s#p1213286.

We hope you enjoy your time with us.

Kristi

[Wartstein]

Hello all! I’m brand new here, looking around and getting familiar, finding information/answers, etc. I can’t find the part 1 of this post. Could someone please help me with a link? Thanks in advance.

Hi, Papaw:
Welcome to our forum. The first part of this discussion can be found here, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78032&p=1213286&hil ... s#p1213286.

We hope you enjoy your time with us.

Kristi

Thanks to the link Kristi provided, I eventually read Sals initial post in part one of this discussion. There he describes the problem with people who dis- and reassemble their knives and then send them back to the dealer as "new"... I find this to be really bad and quite unbelievable (not in the sense that I don't believe it, but am a bit "shocked"). That's really annoying and not a thing an honest and decent person would ever do imo.

[cbrstar]

Hi Bloke,

If the pinned knives go right together first time with no redo, they do have some economic advantage and can be sold less expensively. They also require less space.

sal

Sal, I have to say I kinda really really dislike pinned or riveted knives. I just bought this Manix 2 from a pawn shop for only $10 because it's sticky, gross, and filthy! Lucky I own a ultra sonic cleaner, but I would prefer taking it apart and making sure it's 100% clean and sanitized. I also would like to have been able to take the blade out and buffed some of the scratches out and remove the fleur-de-lis.

IMHO for a modern knife company to say we want to use pins for economic reasons, is like if a car company saying that they want to use drum brakes. It's old inferior technology that most knife companies have moved away from.

[steelcity16]

Hi Bloke,

If the pinned knives go right together first time with no redo, they do have some economic advantage and can be sold less expensively. They also require less space.

sal

Sal, I have to say I kinda really really dislike pinned or riveted knives. I just bought this Manix 2 from a pawn shop for only $10 because it's sticky, gross, and filthy! Lucky I own a ultra sonic cleaner, but I would prefer taking it apart and making sure it's 100% clean and sanitized. I also would like to have been able to take the blade out and buffed some of the scratches out and remove the fleur-de-lis.

IMHO for a modern knife company to say we want to use pins for economic reasons, is like if a car company saying that they want to use drum brakes. It's old inferior technology that most knife companies have moved away from.

I have to agree here. I was really excited to buy an old Native with a 440V SE blade after here how good 440V SE was. But the pivot was way tight and I could never get it right. I love being able to adjust the pivot on my knife to the exact perfect balance of blade play/blade drop. And it is great to be able to take apart for a good cleaning if needed as you said. The rivets need to go and be replaced with high quality ultra hard torx screws that won't strip and aren't bogged down with red loctite. Or at least go to blue loctite on ones that have a tendency to back out. Red loctite should never be on a knife.

[sal]

We haven't used red for quite a while. Most of our knives are screw construction. But not everyone wants screw construction so we try to make enough variety to serve our broad range of customers.

sal

[steelcity16]

We haven't used red for quite a while. Most of our knives are screw construction. But not everyone wants screw construction so we try to make enough variety to serve our broad range of customers.

sal

Thanks Sal, that is great to hear about the red loctite being phased out! I am curious though as to why anyone would NOT want screw construction? If you put blue loctite on the screws as a compromise of allowing easy disassembly/pivot adjustment, while also keeping screws in place for people who don't mess with their knives, what would be the downside to the consumer? Is it just cost? I mean there is screw construction on a $40 Chinese Tenacious, so to not have it on a $100 (or $188.50 in the case of the Maxamet) USA Made Manix LW seems a little backwards? If someone is paying $188.50 for a Maxamet Manix LW, I can't imagine balking at an extra few bucks for the benefit of screw construction.

My observations of online comments seem to indicate that you are losing more sales on the Manix LW by having rivet construction than you would lose by moving to screw construction if you are assuming some people may pass on it due to the higher cost. Just my opinions and observations. I don't have sales numbers and survey results or anything to back it up other than what I have read in forum posts and my personal feelings on the issue.

One last thought on the Manix LW. The low cost BD-1 steel version is a great work/beater folder. The exact type of folder that will get used for all of the dirty, grimy tasks people don't want to use their expensive exclusives on, and could likely benefit from periodic disassembly and cleaning. Also, full disclosure, I sold my BD-1 Manix LW due for this exact reason. I would definitely buy a new one with screw construction though. It would be my go-to work knife.


some quotes from BF

"I have the s110v Manix LW. It's a great knife, but if it had a screw construction I would have other Manix LW models and back-ups."

"I wish the lightweight manix's were screws instead of rivots to start. I love my manix 2 lightweight in xhp, probably my most carried knife, but there is so much dirt and debris clogging up the works that it's action is much worse and cannot be fixed with compressed air, oiling the pivot, or blasting it out with wd-40. Maybe a CQI on this?"

"Same problem. Crud build up. A CQI of the LW Manix to be like the Native 5 LW with screws instead of rivets."

[jpm2]

We haven't used red for quite a while. Most of our knives are screw construction. But not everyone wants screw construction so we try to make enough variety to serve our broad range of customers.

sal

If someone is paying $188.50 for a Maxamet Native LW, I can't imagine balking at an extra few bucks for the benefit of screw construction.

Not to nitpick, but my native maxamet is not pinned. Did you mean the manix lw?

One last thought on the Manix LW. The low cost BD-1 steel version is a great work/beater folder. The exact type of folder that will get used for all of the dirty, grimy tasks people don't want to use their expensive exclusives on, and could likely benefit from periodic disassembly and cleaning. Also, full disclosure, I sold my BD-1 Manix LW due for this exact reason. I would definitely buy a new one with screw construction though. It would be my go-to work knife.

Again... nitpicking.... some of us (... maybe just me) use our top tier knives just as we would any knife... a knife is a knife is a knife, a tool, some are better than others, just like any tool... (unpopular opinion).



I prefer to break mine down for cleaning and repair.