Depends on what you're cutting. If you're push cutting chery tomatoes or slicing poly rope or hacking through jungle with a machete you'll want different edges.
Depends on what you're cutting. If you're push cutting chery tomatoes or slicing poly rope or hacking through jungle with a machete you'll want different edges.
Not in my experience. In my experience a toothy edge can out cut a polished edge, but it can't outlast it, regardless of what you're cutting. If you keep cutting long enough the polished edge always wins.
Regardless, that discussion is counter productive when we consider the knives and steels available to us today. Given that we have have these steel choices the only real question is what performs the best for the task. I slice a lot of cherry tomatoes. I cut very little rope and occasionally prune a small limb. I never hack through jungle with a folder or a machete.
Although I believe the negative aspects of having an extremely sharp highly polished edge are often exaggerated, when it comes to highly abrasion resistant rope, the toothy edge WILL outlast the polished edge, not just outperform it. I've seen this countless times. A dull hacksaw cuts rope better than a dull knife.
A plain edge knife is not a hack saw or any other type of saw. There are no serrations in the steel, just unsupported toothy edges that fold and/or break. Polished edges do neither.
I will test as requested and post the results regardless of outcome.
David
Re: Sharpening S110V
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:49 pm
by Deadboxhero
David, no one is denying sharp is sharp.
I didn't see anything special or mind blowing about a sharp polished edge cutting rope. Welcome to the club.
It's true
Some people can't get a sharp polished edge because the crush or round the apex while polishing.
Yet conversely some people think you can only get a sharp edge with polish because they can't deburr properly.
Each thinking there perspective is best when you can have both, one or the other. Just silly.
So while you question peoples abilities to get a REAL polished edge, it can be flipped back at you and make me question your ability to deburr properly without using polishing stones as a crutch to clean the apex.
Here are the tests
Test #1 buy a big bag of tomato's, then buy some manilla rope (that's the nasty stuff) cut ten pieces of rope then cut a thin slice of tomato you'll notice the polished edge will slip on the ripe tomato skin sooner then a less polished edge. But that the polished edge (when it was sharp) cut better but it drops off sooner.
Assuming the toothier edge is deburred probably.
Test #2
cut the rope on a bathroom dial weight scale,
watch when the pounds per cut increases. The polished edge once it loses it's crisp apex from the very abrasive manilla rope will not be able to draw cut through the rope and will need more downward pressure to separate the rope.
The toothy edge will still be able to draw cut even when the apex radius deforms and widens with use since the teeth can still shred material.
You will see less increase in pressure needed to cut as the edge wears on the rope.
So a strong man can push cut rope indefinitely but are you testing the steel or your strength and will?
Test #3 go hunting, process the animal hide and fur when field dressing. The polish will start slipping on the cuts faster. Same with fish too.
Hey,
At the end of the day, use a polished edge for whatever you like but that doesn't mean it's the right finish for the job and some of us care about those details.
Depends on what you're cutting. If you're push cutting chery tomatoes or slicing poly rope or hacking through jungle with a machete you'll want different edges.
Not in my experience. In my experience a toothy edge can out cut a polished edge, but it can't outlast it, regardless of what you're cutting. If you keep cutting long enough the polished edge always wins.
Well, that hasn't been my experience fwiw.
Re: Sharpening S110V
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:11 pm
by vivi
If you really want a hard test for your knife, try different edges out slicing skateboard griptape. It's basically just low grit sandpaper with an adhesive backing. I used my SE Tasman Salt to grip over 30 skateboards. Never saw any edge damage. Tried an Opinel too since it was a cheap beater. Low grit edges worked a lot better than polished there. Polished edges got trashed pretty quick. With either knife I'd touch up the edge with a scrap piece of grip tape after each board.
I didn't see anything special or mind blowing about a sharp polished edge cutting rope. Welcome to the club.
It's true
Some people can't get a sharp polished edge because the crush or round the apex while polishing.
Yet conversely some people think you can only get a sharp edge with polish because they can't deburr properly.
Each thinking there perspective is best when you can have both, one or the other. Just silly.
So while you question peoples abilities to get a REAL polished edge, it can be flipped back at you and make me question your ability to deburr properly without using polishing stones as a crutch to clean the apex.
Here are the tests
Test #1 buy a big bag of tomato's, then buy some manilla rope (that's the nasty stuff) cut ten pieces of rope then cut a thin slice of tomato you'll notice the polished edge will slip on the ripe tomato skin sooner then a less polished edge. But that the polished edge (when it was sharp) cut better but it drops off sooner.
Assuming the toothier edge is deburred probably.
Test #2
cut the rope on a bathroom dial weight scale,
watch when the pounds per cut increases. The polished edge once it loses it's crisp apex from the very abrasive manilla rope will not be able to draw cut through the rope and will need more downward pressure to separate the rope.
The toothy edge will still be able to draw cut even when the apex radius deforms and widens with use since the teeth can still shred material.
You will see less increase in pressure needed to cut as the edge wears on the rope.
So a strong man can push cut rope indefinitely but are you testing the steel or your strength and will?
Test #3 go hunting, process the animal hide and fur when field dressing. The polish will start slipping on the cuts faster. Same with fish too.
Hey,
At the end of the day, use a polished edge for whatever you like but that doesn't mean it's the right finish for the job and some of us care about those details.
Do what makes you happy.
Shawn.
Hmmmm
Looks like a new set of tests w/o waiting for the results of the last requested test. The new tests will a long time to accomplis with the "game cleaning" requirements. You can "put it back on me" all you want - the tests will be on video, the toothy edges will be sharp.
I like how you carefully stack the test requirements to produce the results that you want to see. Why didn't you have any comments when I first asked Bloke about it? Before I conducted that test and recorded with video?
#1) How about we cut 10 pieces of manilla rope then repeat the loop rope test cut as a measure of efficacy?
#2) So downward (push cut) efficacy is the only fair way to measure loss of efficacy in cutting performance? Even though we are applying force in two dimensions, we'll just measure one? interesting.
#3) Already done multiple times, though admittedly, not with S110V. Have conducted extensive testing with my Dozier Yukon Skinner cleaning about a dozen deer and I'll take a highly polished edge all day, every day over a toothy edge.
How about you conduct that testing and post it on the forum, I'm eagerly waiting to give my commentary on your results.
If you really want a hard test for your knife, try different edges out slicing skateboard griptape. It's basically just low grit sandpaper with an adhesive backing. I used my SE Tasman Salt to grip over 30 skateboards. Never saw any edge damage. Tried an Opinel too since it was a cheap beater. Low grit edges worked a lot better than polished there. Polished edges got trashed pretty quick. With either knife I'd touch up the edge with a scrap piece of grip tape after each board.
Vivi,
Do you strop the edge on the back side for SE?
Re: Sharpening S110V
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:33 pm
by vivi
I sharpen SE on both sides, about five strokes on the presentation side, then one on the back at about 5 degrees off from flat to the stone. Regardless of what I'm sharpening with.
Re: Sharpening S110V
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:44 pm
by Ankerson
Bottom line is in my controlled testing over a wide range of steels a coarse edge will out cut a polished edge by a very large amount as in HUGE amount percentage wise.
I have seen as much as 400% + difference in favor of coarse edges.
The difference is so high and consistent that I stopped testing polished edges at all after awhile.
I didn't see anything special or mind blowing about a sharp polished edge cutting rope. Welcome to the club.
It's true
Some people can't get a sharp polished edge because the crush or round the apex while polishing.
Yet conversely some people think you can only get a sharp edge with polish because they can't deburr properly.
Each thinking there perspective is best when you can have both, one or the other. Just silly.
So while you question peoples abilities to get a REAL polished edge, it can be flipped back at you and make me question your ability to deburr properly without using polishing stones as a crutch to clean the apex.
Here are the tests
Test #1 buy a big bag of tomato's, then buy some manilla rope (that's the nasty stuff) cut ten pieces of rope then cut a thin slice of tomato you'll notice the polished edge will slip on the ripe tomato skin sooner then a less polished edge. But that the polished edge (when it was sharp) cut better but it drops off sooner.
Assuming the toothier edge is deburred probably.
Test #2
cut the rope on a bathroom dial weight scale,
watch when the pounds per cut increases. The polished edge once it loses it's crisp apex from the very abrasive manilla rope will not be able to draw cut through the rope and will need more downward pressure to separate the rope.
The toothy edge will still be able to draw cut even when the apex radius deforms and widens with use since the teeth can still shred material.
You will see less increase in pressure needed to cut as the edge wears on the rope.
So a strong man can push cut rope indefinitely but are you testing the steel or your strength and will?
Test #3 go hunting, process the animal hide and fur when field dressing. The polish will start slipping on the cuts faster. Same with fish too.
Hey,
At the end of the day, use a polished edge for whatever you like but that doesn't mean it's the right finish for the job and some of us care about those details.
Do what makes you happy.
Shawn.
Hmmmm
Looks like a new set of tests w/o waiting for the results of the last requested test. The new tests will a long time to accomplis with the "game cleaning" requirements. You can "put it back on me" all you want - the tests will be on video, the toothy edges will be sharp.
I like how you carefully stack the test requirements to produce the results that you want to see. Why didn't you have any comments when I first asked Bloke about it? Before I conducted that test and recorded with video?
#1) How about we cut 10 pieces of manilla rope then repeat the loop rope test cut as a measure of efficacy?
#2) So downward (push cut) efficacy is the only fair way to measure loss of efficacy in cutting performance? Even though we are applying force in two dimensions, we'll just measure one? interesting.
#3) Already done multiple times, though admittedly, not with S110V. Have conducted extensive testing with my Dozier Yukon Skinner cleaning about a dozen deer and I'll take a highly polished edge all day, every day over a toothy edge.
How about you conduct that testing and post it on the forum, I'm eagerly waiting to give my commentary on your results.
If you really want a hard test for your knife, try different edges out slicing skateboard griptape. It's basically just low grit sandpaper with an adhesive backing. I used my SE Tasman Salt to grip over 30 skateboards. Never saw any edge damage. Tried an Opinel too since it was a cheap beater. Low grit edges worked a lot better than polished there. Polished edges got trashed pretty quick. With either knife I'd touch up the edge with a scrap piece of grip tape after each board.
Vivi
I have no desire for a "hard test". I can't begin to fathom the concept of cutting griptape with a pocket knife or how this translates into some sort of real world test for an EDC edge. I've tried both edge types in S110V and found the polished edge to be superior.
When I stated that, Bloke suggested a test, a test that would result in the polished edge sliding off the rope like a dull knife. It didn't happen. I did the test, I posted the video.
Now within hours, I've got people proposing ever more ridiculous tests to show that I'm wrong!
How about you cut a couple of miles of grip tape with your knives, sharpened two different ways (make sure they're both perfect or I'll ridicule you!)?
I'm not going to do it. As a matter of fact, I'm not doing any additional testing - can already tell from the multiple challenges posted since I agreed to conduct Lance's test - that won't be good enough either.
Done here, ya'll feel free to post any and all testing you conduct - I look forward to reviewing (& commenting!)
I didn't see anything special or mind blowing about a sharp polished edge cutting rope. Welcome to the club.
It's true
Some people can't get a sharp polished edge because the crush or round the apex while polishing.
Yet conversely some people think you can only get a sharp edge with polish because they can't deburr properly.
Each thinking there perspective is best when you can have both, one or the other. Just silly.
So while you question peoples abilities to get a REAL polished edge, it can be flipped back at you and make me question your ability to deburr properly without using polishing stones as a crutch to clean the apex.
Here are the tests
Test #1 buy a big bag of tomato's, then buy some manilla rope (that's the nasty stuff) cut ten pieces of rope then cut a thin slice of tomato you'll notice the polished edge will slip on the ripe tomato skin sooner then a less polished edge. But that the polished edge (when it was sharp) cut better but it drops off sooner.
Assuming the toothier edge is deburred probably.
Test #2
cut the rope on a bathroom dial weight scale,
watch when the pounds per cut increases. The polished edge once it loses it's crisp apex from the very abrasive manilla rope will not be able to draw cut through the rope and will need more downward pressure to separate the rope.
The toothy edge will still be able to draw cut even when the apex radius deforms and widens with use since the teeth can still shred material.
You will see less increase in pressure needed to cut as the edge wears on the rope.
So a strong man can push cut rope indefinitely but are you testing the steel or your strength and will?
Test #3 go hunting, process the animal hide and fur when field dressing. The polish will start slipping on the cuts faster. Same with fish too.
Hey,
At the end of the day, use a polished edge for whatever you like but that doesn't mean it's the right finish for the job and some of us care about those details.
Do what makes you happy.
Shawn.
Hmmmm
Looks like a new set of tests w/o waiting for the results of the last requested test. The new tests will a long time to accomplis with the "game cleaning" requirements. You can "put it back on me" all you want - the tests will be on video, the toothy edges will be sharp.
I like how you carefully stack the test requirements to produce the results that you want to see. Why didn't you have any comments when I first asked Bloke about it? Before I conducted that test and recorded with video?
#1) How about we cut 10 pieces of manilla rope then repeat the loop rope test cut as a measure of efficacy?
#2) So downward (push cut) efficacy is the only fair way to measure loss of efficacy in cutting performance? Even though we are applying force in two dimensions, we'll just measure one? interesting.
#3) Already done multiple times, though admittedly, not with S110V. Have conducted extensive testing with my Dozier Yukon Skinner cleaning about a dozen deer and I'll take a highly polished edge all day, every day over a toothy edge.
How about you conduct that testing and post it on the forum, I'm eagerly waiting to give my commentary on your results.
My highly polished edges cut rope great, honestly can't answer on the fish bones as I'm an electric knife guy when it's time to filet my catch.
Maybe I'm using the wrong rope - what rope are you finding polished edges won't cut?
David
I've found difficulty in cutting any of the synthetics and natural fibre ropes with a refined edge.
A prime example would be after I took HAP40 to hair whittling off UF stones on the SM not long after I joined the forum and contacted the member here who explained how to do it to brag about my sharpening ability. Ah, hahaha!
He challenged me to bend some rope into a loop put the knife in the loop and try to cut out. So I did and it certainly didn't cut anything like a coarse edge does. In fact it slid a lot like a blunt blade would.
Polypropylene? Nylon? Size?
Can't say that I've tried cutting a loop as described, usually cutting to length on some wood backing. Going to try some rope tomorrow, appreciate the input.
David
Again, doing what was requested of me, not cutting some rotten natural fiber rope.
Bottom line is in my controlled testing over a wide range of steels a coarse edge will out cut a polished edge by a very large amount as in HUGE amount percentage wise.
I have seen as much as 400% + difference in favor of coarse edges.
The difference is so high and consistent that I stopped testing polished edges at all after awhile.
A common theme here - you talk more than you post data.
Bottom line is in my controlled testing over a wide range of steels a coarse edge will out cut a polished edge by a very large amount as in HUGE amount percentage wise.
I have seen as much as 400% + difference in favor of coarse edges.
The difference is so high and consistent that I stopped testing polished edges at all after awhile.
A common theme here - you talk more than you post data.
Prove it.
David
I have a number of times over the years if you do the research.
I have a number of times over the years if you do the research.
I'm no more interested in it than you are.
David
Perhaps since you are doing nothing more than trolling.
Of course.
That's the watch word of the day here.
I give my personal experience, someone suggests a test. No one says a word. I conduct the test, as requested, get results that don't correspond with accepted forum dogma. I get dogpiled by an ever more unruly, rude mob, You state you have untold amounts of data proving I'm wrong, but produce nothing but snide comments, and NOW
I didn't see anything special or mind blowing about a sharp polished edge cutting rope. Welcome to the club.
It's true
Some people can't get a sharp polished edge because the crush or round the apex while polishing.
Yet conversely some people think you can only get a sharp edge with polish because they can't deburr properly.
Each thinking there perspective is best when you can have both, one or the other. Just silly.
So while you question peoples abilities to get a REAL polished edge, it can be flipped back at you and make me question your ability to deburr properly without using polishing stones as a crutch to clean the apex.
Here are the tests
Test #1 buy a big bag of tomato's, then buy some manilla rope (that's the nasty stuff) cut ten pieces of rope then cut a thin slice of tomato you'll notice the polished edge will slip on the ripe tomato skin sooner then a less polished edge. But that the polished edge (when it was sharp) cut better but it drops off sooner.
Assuming the toothier edge is deburred probably.
Test #2
cut the rope on a bathroom dial weight scale,
watch when the pounds per cut increases. The polished edge once it loses it's crisp apex from the very abrasive manilla rope will not be able to draw cut through the rope and will need more downward pressure to separate the rope.
The toothy edge will still be able to draw cut even when the apex radius deforms and widens with use since the teeth can still shred material.
You will see less increase in pressure needed to cut as the edge wears on the rope.
So a strong man can push cut rope indefinitely but are you testing the steel or your strength and will?
Test #3 go hunting, process the animal hide and fur when field dressing. The polish will start slipping on the cuts faster. Same with fish too.
Hey,
At the end of the day, use a polished edge for whatever you like but that doesn't mean it's the right finish for the job and some of us care about those details.
Do what makes you happy.
Shawn.
Hmmmm
Looks like a new set of tests w/o waiting for the results of the last requested test. The new tests will a long time to accomplis with the "game cleaning" requirements. You can "put it back on me" all you want - the tests will be on video, the toothy edges will be sharp.
I like how you carefully stack the test requirements to produce the results that you want to see. Why didn't you have any comments when I first asked Bloke about it? Before I conducted that test and recorded with video?
#1) How about we cut 10 pieces of manilla rope then repeat the loop rope test cut as a measure of efficacy?
#2) So downward (push cut) efficacy is the only fair way to measure loss of efficacy in cutting performance? Even though we are applying force in two dimensions, we'll just measure one? interesting.
#3) Already done multiple times, though admittedly, not with S110V. Have conducted extensive testing with my Dozier Yukon Skinner cleaning about a dozen deer and I'll take a highly polished edge all day, every day over a toothy edge.
How about you conduct that testing and post it on the forum, I'm eagerly waiting to give my commentary on your results.
My highly polished edges cut rope great, honestly can't answer on the fish bones as I'm an electric knife guy when it's time to filet my catch.
Maybe I'm using the wrong rope - what rope are you finding polished edges won't cut?
David
I've found difficulty in cutting any of the synthetics and natural fibre ropes with a refined edge.
A prime example would be after I took HAP40 to hair whittling off UF stones on the SM not long after I joined the forum and contacted the member here who explained how to do it to brag about my sharpening ability. Ah, hahaha!
He challenged me to bend some rope into a loop put the knife in the loop and try to cut out. So I did and it certainly didn't cut anything like a coarse edge does. In fact it slid a lot like a blunt blade would.
Polypropylene? Nylon? Size?
Can't say that I've tried cutting a loop as described, usually cutting to length on some wood backing. Going to try some rope tomorrow, appreciate the input.
David
Again, doing what was requested of me, not cutting some rotten natural fiber rope.
I have a number of times over the years if you do the research.
I'm no more interested in it than you are.
David
Perhaps since you are doing nothing more than trolling.
Of course.
That's the watch word of the day here.
I give my personal experience, someone suggests a test. No one says a word. I conduct the test, as requested, get results that don't correspond with accepted forum dogma. I get dogpiled by an ever more unruly, rude mob, You state you have untold amounts of data proving I'm wrong, but produce nothing but snide comments, and NOW