Taking apart knives

[RLDubbya]

One thing I've learned from running support organizations: support is a black hole, taking all the resources you give it, and looking for more.

Perhaps there is room in a business model for an independent company with whom Spyderco can contract to provide warranty repair, sharpening, etc. Spyderco could provide documentation on it's products to this third party; the 3rd party would agree to a rate structure, and this would (a) fix the cost of service for Spyderco and (b) provide more techs for customers. Perhaps there are particular ranges of knives that give most of the problems - that 20% causing 80% of the problem. Perhaps Spyderco can keep all the collector stuff in house.

I would rather look at this ongoing conversation as a conversation about opportunity rather than a conversation about failure. I know the answers are not simple, but somebody once said "Opportunity knocked on my door and I slammed the door on its face because it looked a lot like hard work to me."

[Ankerson]

About this whole taking knives apart thing I have a feeling that there already has been or will be Warranty modifications from all the knife manufactures as this goes on.

If Spyderco is seeing this as an issue then I am sure all of them are.

Even CRK is VERY strict about their warranty and they lay things out very clearly.

Strider was one of the 1st to clamp down on these issues.

[Evil D]

About this whole taking knives apart thing I have a feeling that there already has been or will be Warranty modifications from all the knife manufactures as this goes on.

If Spyderco is seeing this as an issue then I am sure all of them are.

Right, the question is if those other companies who are larger can absorb the cost more/better than a smaller company like Spyderco. You also have to question how much of this sort of thing is already included into the cost of a knife, sort of like BM and their "free" clips. The cost of those clips is already factored into the price of the knife, you're paying for a replacement clip before you even need one.

[Ankerson]

About this whole taking knives apart thing I have a feeling that there already has been or will be Warranty modifications from all the knife manufactures as this goes on.

If Spyderco is seeing this as an issue then I am sure all of them are.

Right, the question is if those other companies who are larger can absorb the cost more/better than a smaller company like Spyderco. You also have to question how much of this sort of thing is already included into the cost of a knife, sort of like BM and their "free" clips. The cost of those clips is already factored into the price of the knife, you're paying for a replacement clip before you even need one.

Strider and CRK already have, Strider was the 1st I believe to clamp down on it, they didn't have a choice it got so bad.

AND THESE ARE NOT CHEAP KNIVES EITHER and people have been or are screwing them up. :eek:

If people mess up those knives from either of them they will find out how much it costs and it's NOT CHEAP.

[MichaelScott]

One thing I've learned from running support organizations: support is a black hole, taking all the resources you give it, and looking for more.

Perhaps there is room in a business model for an independent company with whom Spyderco can contract to provide warranty repair, sharpening, etc. Spyderco could provide documentation on it's products to this third party; the 3rd party would agree to a rate structure, and this would (a) fix the cost of service for Spyderco and (b) provide more techs for customers. Perhaps there are particular ranges of knives that give most of the problems - that 20% causing 80% of the problem. Perhaps Spyderco can keep all the collector stuff in house.

I would rather look at this ongoing conversation as a conversation about opportunity rather than a conversation about failure. I know the answers are not simple, but somebody once said "Opportunity knocked on my door and I slammed the door on its face because it looked a lot like hard work to me."

I don’t think I would buy off on the “black hole” assertion without some solid evidence to support it. I too spent a number of years running “support organizations” for a large company and I don’t recall it being near a “black hole.” I could be wrong in general since I have only my own experiences to support my view.

Responding to your 3rd party idea. I don’t know that Spyderco has problems with their warranty process and infrastructure in general. That may be working fine. What I have heard in the forum is the issue with non-warranty eligible knives being returned as “new”, or warranty-eligible is the cause of time and expense and some agitation on the forums. If their own warranty program is running fine, I would see no need to change that.

Some issues with turning over one’s support functions to a third party (a vendor) are that it requires another layer of management on Spyderco’s part. Some people have to be hired and trained to manage the vendor relationship. One also has to look at what incentives the vendor has to take on that business, like, how are they measured and how do they make money? Would Spyderco be only one client among many? How would the high standards of CQI and basic quality control be enforced with the vendor? Could the vendor meet Spyderco’s quality and cost requirements? What kind of customer satisfaction process would the vendor have and would it be up to Spyderco’s standards? How would Spyderco continually mananage that? If the relationship failed (pick your reason - degraded customer satisfaction with Spyderco would be the most damaging) how would Spyderco bring those functions back in-house? How long would that take? How much would that cost and how would Spyderco repair their damaged image in the knife community.

In my opinion, one of the things that sets Spyderco apart from other knife markers is their connection with and relationship with their customers. That’s something that is hard won, and you have to treat as a major company asset.

Not to say that your idea is bad, but it requires a lot of thought and study and business goes on all the while. Thanks for posting it. I hope it gets more discussion.

[phurgawtin]

I think one issue is people trying to solve things which they assume are problems only because they haven't handled them accordingly enough.

For example, my CF chaparral felt very "gritty" upon opening at closing at first. I had contemplated sending it back to the dealer. After 3-4 days of use, it's smooth as butter.

My manix CBBL was a pain and a half to disengage. I was almost hurting my fingers on the thing. Few weeks later, smooth as butter.

I can understand users impatiently trying to fix things, not realizing that the proper solution to fix their issue is to work the mechanism in.

[curlyhairedboy]

Honestly, I'm starting to think there's gotta be a way for some enterprising person to set up a 'break-in' business for those who THINK they got a lemon.

[HammerHill]

I have a right to repair the things I own. If it voids the warranty, so be it. Unfortunate, but understandable given the incompetence of many consumers. However, any measures taken to prevent me from repairing those things - be they red loctite, easily stripped screws, tamper-proof seals, or proprietary hardware - are absolute deal-breakers. I do not purchase crippled tools that insult me.

[Ankerson]

I have a right to repair the things I own. If it voids the warranty, so be it. Unfortunate, but understandable given the incompetence of many consumers. However, any measures taken to prevent me from repairing those things - be they red loctite, easily stripped screws, tamper-proof seals, or proprietary hardware - are absolute deal-breakers. I do not purchase crippled tools that insult me.

Unless you live in a cave there are a ton on items we all use these days that are not Customer serviceable.

So I suppose you wake up insulted everyday, must be hard to deal with all that stress that you put on yourself. There are medications and assorted therapy to deal with that kind of stress.

[HammerHill]

Unless you live in a cave there are a ton on items we all use these days that are not Customer serviceable.

So I suppose you wake up insulted everyday, must be hard to deal with all that stress that you put on yourself.

Cute. But yes, I am often discouraged by the growing number of non-serviceable goods that have no alternative and the waste they encourage: Apple computers, cell phones, modern cars, etc etc.

[HammerHill]

Double post

[Ankerson]

Unless you live in a cave there are a ton on items we all use these days that are not Customer serviceable.

So I suppose you wake up insulted everyday, must be hard to deal with all that stress that you put on yourself.

Cute. But yes, I am often discouraged by the growing number of non-serviceable goods that have no alternative and the waste they encourage: Apple computers, cell phones, modern cars, etc etc.

A very smart person once said worry about the things you can control and not the things you can't do anything about or can't control.

Life is much less stressful that way.

[Daveho]

Your car, iPhone and a pocket knife are kinda in different leagues of complexity...or maybe my knife is missing some features

[Ankerson]

Your car, iPhone and a pocket knife are kinda in different leagues of complexity...or maybe my knife is missing some features

It's more about protecting the integrity of the products, I would think all manufactures actually care about the products they make.

They warranty the products to protect the customer.

They set the level of what they will tolerate to protect the products they make.

If a product isn't consumer serviceable it's for a reason.

I have read that some people have been killed taking apart Computer Power Supplies and other assorted things like that.

[Daveho]

The knives are serviceable, disassembly didn’t void the warranty

[HammerHill]

A very smart person once said worry about the things you can control and not the things you can't do anything about or can't control.

Life is much less stressful that way.

Thanks for the philosophy lesson, but I am speaking up here, now, because I do have some small measure of control in this situation - few if ANY companies are as responsive to their customers as Spyderco. They may or may not agree, but I trust that they do listen.

My opinion is that any move towards preventing customers from using their tools as they see fit is antithetical to the design principles that make Spyderco so appealing to me in the first place. Or maybe you can explain to me how using easily stripped screws would be CQI, Ankerson? I see this as a dealer issue - they need to crack down on unethical returns.

[Ankerson]

The knives are serviceable, disassembly didn’t void the warranty

From the SPyderco Website:

https://www.spyderco.com/service-suppor ... ty-repair/

Read it carefully.....

✓ Spyderco’s knives are assembled to exacting tolerances by trained technicians, so we discourage end users from disassembling or adjusting our knives. If a knife has been disassembled and reassembled correctly—so as to maintain its proper mechanical function—this warranty remains in full effect. However, if a knife has been disassembled and reassembled in such a way that, in Spyderco’s sole determination, the proper mechanical function of the knife has been compromised, it is no longer covered by warranty.

[Ankerson]

A very smart person once said worry about the things you can control and not the things you can't do anything about or can't control.

Life is much less stressful that way.

Thanks for the philosophy lesson, but I am speaking up here, now, because I do have some small measure of control in this situation - few if ANY companies are as responsive to their customers as Spyderco. They may or may not agree, but I trust that they do listen.

My opinion is that any move towards preventing customers from using their tools as they see fit is antithetical to the design principles that make Spyderco so appealing to me in the first place. Or maybe you can explain to me how using easily stripped screws would be CQI, Ankerson? I see this as a dealer issue - they need to crack down on unethical returns.

It's actually a people issue in general.

But as with all people issues it's not 100% everyone, but to solve a people issue steps have to be made in order to solve or address the said issue that will effect everyone.

That is the way things work.

Spyderco could do nothing and the problem will continue or get worse or they can address it they way they see fit.

[Daveho]

The knives are serviceable, disassembly didn’t void the warranty

From the SPyderco Website:

https://www.spyderco.com/service-suppor ... ty-repair/

Read it carefully.....

✓ Spyderco’s knives are assembled to exacting tolerances by trained technicians, so we discourage end users from disassembling or adjusting our knives. If a knife has been disassembled and reassembled correctly—so as to maintain its proper mechanical function—this warranty remains in full effect. However, if a knife has been disassembled and reassembled in such a way that, in Spyderco’s sole determination, the proper mechanical function of the knife has been compromised, it is no longer covered by warranty.

Okay well I can’t speak for others but disassembly of these knives is within my skill set.

[HammerHill]

Your car, iPhone and a pocket knife are kinda in different leagues of complexity...or maybe my knife is missing some features

Absolutely. So why shouldn't I be able to work on my simple pocketknife?

I don't want to derail the thread here, but the problem with the modern goods I mentioned isn't their complexity, it's that the end user is ACTIVELY prevented from using them as they see fit or getting them serviced by anyone other than the original manufacturer. Apple won't release spec sheets of their products to legitimate repair shops. Printer companies sued to stop the sale of ink cartridge refilling kits (later refuted by the Supreme Court, amazingly enough!). There are even tractor manufacturers claiming that when their customers purchase one of their machines, they merely own a 'licence to operate the vehicle' and therefore cannot service or modify it themselves. Ultimately, more "unfixable" goods means more sales, or more work for an exclusive (and expensive) service department.

To be clear, I am NOT suggesting that is what is at play here with Spyderco. As you point out, a pocket knife and a cell phone are vastly different things. I would just hate to see this pernicious attitude towards ownership infect one of my favorite brands.