Disapointed with customer service..

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Canazes9
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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby Canazes9 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:53 pm

MichaelScott wrote:I went back and looked at a number of old forum posts about this and similar complaints. In almost every instance the original complainer had a reason why they would not return the problem knife to Spyderco. They all want an exception to Spyderco's policies. I am sorry that you aren’t satisfied with your knife and that you aren’t willing to abide by Spyderco's published warranty and repair policies. Living in Australia and choosing to buy a Spyderco knife from an American dealer shouldn’t exempt you from the same requirements that apply to the rest of us.
You should contact Spyderco immediately! I hear this is exactly the attitude they want their warranty personnel to have, may even be a supervisor's position available!


David

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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby MichaelScott » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:45 pm

Canazes9 wrote:
MichaelScott wrote:I went back and looked at a number of old forum posts about this and similar complaints. In almost every instance the original complainer had a reason why they would not return the problem knife to Spyderco. They all want an exception to Spyderco's policies. I am sorry that you aren’t satisfied with your knife and that you aren’t willing to abide by Spyderco's published warranty and repair policies. Living in Australia and choosing to buy a Spyderco knife from an American dealer shouldn’t exempt you from the same requirements that apply to the rest of us.
You should contact Spyderco immediately! I hear this is exactly the attitude they want their warranty personnel to have, may even be a supervisor's position available!


David
And your point is?
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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby Daveho » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:57 pm

That in the luxury product market which lets be honest a titanium scaled knife is, you are right to expect a level of service.
That hasn’t happened here.
It’s not a huge drama, I can probably make or find some replacements locally but on a brand new knife it leaves a pretty bad taste that will make me reconsider buying another spyderco in the future.
That’s the point.

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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby Canazes9 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:11 pm

MichaelScott wrote:
Canazes9 wrote:
MichaelScott wrote:I went back and looked at a number of old forum posts about this and similar complaints. In almost every instance the original complainer had a reason why they would not return the problem knife to Spyderco. They all want an exception to Spyderco's policies. I am sorry that you aren’t satisfied with your knife and that you aren’t willing to abide by Spyderco's published warranty and repair policies. Living in Australia and choosing to buy a Spyderco knife from an American dealer shouldn’t exempt you from the same requirements that apply to the rest of us.
You should contact Spyderco immediately! I hear this is exactly the attitude they want their warranty personnel to have, may even be a supervisor's position available!


David
And your point is?
The guy has a brand new knife, his wife probably paid well over $300 for it in Austrailia.

Out of the box the action feels bad, he disassembles it and finds the washers dented causing the notchy feel. This is a well known problem with Spyderco bearing flippers, that has caused them MUCH bad press. Even though everyone but Sal says there is no problem with the design, all the flippers are redesigned to eliminate the problem. Spyderco doesn't recall the old knives, they continue to allow them to be sold.

When the customer calls Spyderco, they don't say "send in your new knife and we'll evaluate", they say "send in your new knife plus money to replace the junk parts with identical junk parts" - see they've already made up their minds, it's the customer's fault, without them even looking at the knife.

Now they tell him he has to send it in. That's probably going to cost him $80+ including parts and with problems shipping overseas he stands a good chance of not seeing his new, now $380 knife again. Customer doesn't want to go that route, he says hey, how about I just buy the simple little $20 parts that are a drop in fit that you say I have to buy to get my brand new knife working properly and they tell him, "no, you're only option is to pay $80 and risk losing your knife altogether - we won't sell parts and we won't discuss it.

Now you come on and basically say his problem is that he was stupid enough to get given a gift from his wife that was defective the day he got it - if he doesn't want to ship it to Spyderco he shouldn't have gotten the knife at all.

Your stance is idiotic, just like Spyderco's policy regarding selling drop in internal parts, Spyderco's policy on continuing to sell knives that are built substandard instead of just biting the bullet and recalling the knives and Spyderco's repeated violation of the Magnuson-Moss Act.

Eventually, word is going to get out to everyone that the new CQI knives have had the bearing system completely redone and you won't be able to give the old design flippers away, much less sell them. When that happens there are going to be quite a few angry dealers wanting to discuss inventory they are stuck with that they can no longer sell.

This whole thing is a PR nightmare for Spyderco and it gets worse every day they let it drag on.

David

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MichaelScott
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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby MichaelScott » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:33 pm

If it was “a well known problem” did he expect his to be different? Did he return it to the retailer as unacceptable? Did he decide to fix the issue himself? Is he now dependent on Spyderco to sell him parts for his disassembled knife? Can he find parts elsewhere? Did Spyderco — someone who represents Spyderco — actually say to send the knife with money to pay for junk parts? (I will leave that as is since the answer is self-evident.)

As to the Magnuson-Moss Act, the relevant portion is (and in particular the final part):
“if the product, or a component part, contains a defect or malfunction, must permit the consumer to elect either a refund or replacement without charge, after a reasonable number of repair attempts.
In addition, the warrantor may not impose any duty, other than notification, upon any consumer, as a condition of securing the repair of any consumer product that malfunctions, is defective, or does not conform to the written warranty. However, the warrantor may require consumers to return a defective item to its place of purchase for repair.”

I could go on but I won’t. If one doesn’t understand the rules, one shouldn’t play the game. Metaphorically, of course.
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Bloke
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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby Bloke » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:34 pm

Daveho wrote:That in the luxury product market which lets be honest a titanium scaled knife is, you are right to expect a level of service.
That hasn’t happened here.
It’s not a huge drama, I can probably make or find some replacements locally but on a brand new knife it leaves a pretty bad taste that will make me reconsider buying another spyderco in the future.
That’s the point.
Way to go dig! Get someone to turn up a couple of bronze thrust washers for you and Bob's your uncle. ;)

I tried to warn you mate it's a touch subject and people like MichaelScott are clueless as to what people like us pay for our knives and may well be surprised to learn that a Plain Jane Delica retails today in Australian for up to $203.50 and to the best of my search ability the Mantra isn't available in Australia. I dare say he's also ignorant to the fact you need some sort of BS insurance or whatever it is to legally post a knife.

Let it go mate. Speak to Spyderco direct and hope for the best. :)
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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby MichaelScott » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:42 pm

Sorry you are riled up. It’s too bad that Spydercos cost much more in Australia and you suffer from legal and regulatory hassles but I don’t see why that should exempt you from the same requirements Spyderco has for the rest of us.

And, I think this has become redundant and has little value as a thread now, so I wish you well and am signing off.
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Daveho
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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby Daveho » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:46 pm

Do you really think I would go and buy a model with problems and just expect mine to be fine?
No I bought the knife, discovered the issue, went online and found many folk who have had the same issue.
I assumed (foolishly evidently) that spyderco would make spares available for their current production knives, i was wrong on this instance in getting a knife I liked the look of clearly.
Obviously this was my mistake and I’m future I’ll stick to brands that are willing to support their products in the future.

Canazes9
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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby Canazes9 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:27 pm

MichaelScott wrote:If it was “a well known problem” did he expect his to be different? Did he return it to the retailer as unacceptable? Did he decide to fix the issue himself? Is he now dependent on Spyderco to sell him parts for his disassembled knife? Can he find parts elsewhere? Did Spyderco — someone who represents Spyderco — actually say to send the knife with money to pay for junk parts? (I will leave that as is since the answer is self-evident.)

As to the Magnuson-Moss Act, the relevant portion is (and in particular the final part):
“if the product, or a component part, contains a defect or malfunction, must permit the consumer to elect either a refund or replacement without charge, after a reasonable number of repair attempts.
In addition, the warrantor may not impose any duty, other than notification, upon any consumer, as a condition of securing the repair of any consumer product that malfunctions, is defective, or does not conform to the written warranty. However, the warrantor may require consumers to return a defective item to its place of purchase for repair.”

I could go on but I won’t. If one doesn’t understand the rules, one shouldn’t play the game. Metaphorically, of course.
You're wrong.

Every person I've seen post that has a flipper that complains of the action is told that Spyderco will replace the bearings/washers, but the consumer will have to pay for the parts.

What Does the Warranty Cover/Not Cover?
✓ Spyderco warrants that all of our genuine products are free from defects in material and workmanship.


If the knife was received that way out of the box they are in effect voiding they're own warranty by charging for parts, a violation of the Magnussen-Moss act. There's another poster on this forum that appears to have a new Manix 2 in S110V with a cracked blade. If that is proven to be defective (which it appears to be), do you think Spyderco is going to charge him something for repairing/replacing his defective knife?

Of course they won't.

When it comes to bearing failures in their flipper designs, Spyderco has decided the problem is the end use consumer, not the knife. They have in fact plainly stated that on this forum and others - all the problems they see are the result of consumers improperly tightening the bearing pivot. But this is far from the first post on this forum (or others) where owners of new knives have complained of the action or owners of knives that insist they've never touched the bearing pivot have had the bearing race/washer destroyed through normal use.

And Spyderco warranty doesn't even need to see the knife - they just know, it's the consumer's fault, send $20 for parts in with the knife...

But Spyderco has never been able to accept that their flipper bearing designs weren't up to snuff. When consumers started complaining about the action and the chintzy parts they kept insisting there was nothing wrong - the knives were performing as designed! But for the most part the people that were buying flippers voted with their wallets and bought elsewhere. This culminated with the dismal failure of the Spyderco Advocate, when they eventually stopped production and re-engineered the knives. Again, you seem to be blaming his wife for not knowing all this information and blaming him for accepting a gift from his wife if he doesn't fully embrace Spyderco's stance on these knives and the warranty issues.

Spyderco, by their choice, is competing in a global market, but they don't have a globally competitive warranty / parts selling stance and the global market is letting them know. Spyderco is making a global *** out of themselves by 1) Refusing to sell drop in parts to consumers instead of demanding they return the knife to Spyderco and 2) Continuing to sell knives that they know are substandard.

David

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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby bearfacedkiller » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:58 pm

This is a concept I see many struggle with. When you purchase a product you are agreeing to the companies warranty and service agreement. You may not have read it and you didn't sign anything but nonetheless those terms were agreed to at the point of sale.

I'm not saying the terms are fair or unfair, I am not saying that they are good or bad and I am not saying wether exceptions should be made. I am just saying that those terms were accepted at the point of sale. Like it or not that is the deal.

Caveat Emptor and all that. If you are going to purchase products from halfway around the world this is the type of stuff a consumer needs to look into and take into account.

Sorry for your frustration and welcome to the forum. Look up a post by EvilD. You could maybe try just flipping them over?
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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby Daveho » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:56 pm

Don’t get me wrong, I’ll fix the knife no trouble at all, my frustration is with the fact that I thought very highly of spyderco and to have my faith in a brand that I actually like ruined like that, it feels very dismissive.

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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby sal » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:09 pm

Hi Daveho,

Welcome to our forum and sorry for your disappointment. If you purchased the knife through Spyderco's distribution, you can easily return it to our Australian distributor (Zen) and they will replace it for you or get you an new one. That's why Spyderco has set up its distribution, so we can easily service our customers.

sal

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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby koenigsegg » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:11 pm

I do think it's crazy they can redesign something and then say there is no problem with the original knives. Magically this means they didn't break their warranty line "Spyderco warrants that all of our genuine products are free from defects in material and workmanship."

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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby Daveho » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:35 pm

sal wrote:Hi Daveho,

Welcome to our forum and sorry for your disappointment. If you purchased the knife through Spyderco's distribution, you can easily return it to our Australian distributor (Zen) and they will replace it for you or get you an new one. That's why Spyderco has set up its distribution, so we can easily service our customers.

sal
Thank you for the reply Sal, as previously mentioned I bought it from a US dealer.
My concern isn’t in having the knife repaired or replaced but rather the dismissive customer service, the fact that I can’t buy replacement parts for my knife and the fact that I held spyderco in quite high esteem based off my years of use of these knives and feel let down.

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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby Tdog » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:48 pm

Daveho, you'll get this worked out and will undoubtedly enjoy the Mantra. It's a great knife.

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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby Daveho » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:36 pm

Tdog wrote:Daveho, you'll get this worked out and will undoubtedly enjoy the Mantra. It's a great knife.
Oh no doubt I will, I think I may have already in fact however I just finished sorting a small issue with my Benchmade and that was actually a really pleasant experience and comparatively this sort of thing just isn’t worth the messing around, it’s a shame but I just may not look at spydercos in future.

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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby JimP » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:55 pm

Whilst it can be inconvenient, there are not many makers that sell or willingly send out internal parts, Spyderco, Benchmade and CRK won't, however ZT/Kershaw do! and whilst I applaud them for it, I don't see it becoming the norm...

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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby ZrowsN1s » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:58 pm

You could take Sals advice, and go through your local distributor next time so you don't have this problem again. Seems like that's an easy solution to future problems. Sorry they wouldn't make a special exception to the rules just for you this time, must be frustrating.
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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby Daveho » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:20 pm

No biggie, obviously this sort of policy is more an issue for people out of the US and the frustration isn’t understood by those not in the situation so In future I’ll just look to deal with companies with more suitable policies.

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Re: Disapointed with customer service..

Postby ChrisinHove » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:20 am

I can see both sides of this one, in principle, but keep coming back to the fact that all this fuss is about a few pennies worth of washers - that the OP wanted to pay for anyway!!!

As an overseas user, no way would I pay retail what they ask for these new, here, nor would I buy second-hand precisely because of this sort of issue - and I’m a fully paid-up Spyderco fanboy!


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