Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

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Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby Deadboxhero » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:12 pm

This is a great video because it shows alot of the process.

The Melt
The atomizing
The Hot isostatic pressing

They just don't show the hot rolling to bar stock.

https://youtu.be/LlNQdU0DkUA

It's very confusing for guys to wrap there heads around the process until they see it.

The powder process makes high alloy steels better by preventing the large alloys from segregating (clumping together) when the ingot cools.
No need to powder AEB-L or 52100 since heat treatment can break up and move stuff around. Not as crowded as tool steels.

You can also see from the video that knives are not at the forefront of the uses for pm steel but to make high wear parts for machines.

We always like to think that knives are the priority, I wish it was haha but that's not where the BIG money is.
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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:54 pm

Thank you for this, I watched the video, it is very good.

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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby Chumango » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:54 pm

Cool. I always wondered what temperature and pressure they used in the hot isostatic press. That is less pressure than I was expecting

Carpenter and Crucible would be similar. They all use their own proprietary improvement of the second generation process. Bohler calls theirs third generation, Carpenter calls theirs Micro-Melt.

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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby TomAiello » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:23 pm

Thanks for posting that. It was weird to be so interested in what is really a pretty dry promo video for an industrial process.

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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby Deadboxhero » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:23 pm

TomAiello wrote:Thanks for posting that. It was weird to be so interested in what is really a pretty dry promo video for an industrial process.
Bahaha Right? That's how you know you've truly gone off the "deep end" lol
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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby curlyhairedboy » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:50 pm

Thanks for sharing!
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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby Pinetreebbs » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:31 pm

Thank You!
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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby Doc Dan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:11 am

Thanks for that. Great video. I also found out we have been mispronouncing the company's name.
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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby Enactive » Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:19 pm

Cool video... I thought it worth bumping a necro thread.

As Tom said it's funny how we geeks find this video interesting. :p

Sweden has a quite developed steel industry ( going back a few centuries) and powder metallurgy production. I have a cousin who works for a competitor to Uddeholm-- Hoganas AB so had some general awareness of powder metallurgy before learning more in the past couple years. Fun stuff. :spyder: :cool:
Last edited by Enactive on Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby David R » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:53 pm

Thanks for sharing. I understood the powered part previously. I wasn't sure how the consolidated it into solid mass. Very interesting.

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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby Bemo » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:01 pm

So glad you brought this thread up. Very interesting. I will have more respect for the knives in these steels now. Also amazing how far removed this is from steel manufacturing at the turn of the 20th century.

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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby cycleguy » Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:01 pm

Makes me think a blade would run a few hundred $$$ !!!

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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby Wartstein » Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:57 pm

Enactive wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:19 pm
Cool video... I thought it worth bumping a necro thread.

As Tom said it's funny how we geeks find this video interesting. :p

Sweden has a quite developed steel industry ( going back a few centuries) and powder metallurgy production. I have a cousin who works for a competitor to Uddeholm-- Hoganas AB so had some general awareness of powder metallurgy before learning more in the past couple years. Fun stuff. :spyder: :cool:
:eek: :mad: ;)

As a proud Austrian I have to insist: Bohler Uddeholm actually is an AUSTRIAN company! ;)

- The Bohler (Böhler / Boehler in German) steel company was founded in 1870, but where they had there factory (Kapfenberg in Austria), there was steel production since at least around 1450 a.D.
- Uddeholm (a Swedish company indeed) was merged with Bohler just in 1991
- Here (https://www.bohler-edelstahl.com/en/high-speed-steel/) are lists of steels Bohler produces, among them K390, M390 or N690...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby Enactive » Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:31 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:57 pm
Enactive wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:19 pm
Cool video... I thought it worth bumping a necro thread.

As Tom said it's funny how we geeks find this video interesting. :p

Sweden has a quite developed steel industry ( going back a few centuries) and powder metallurgy production. I have a cousin who works for a competitor to Uddeholm-- Hoganas AB so had some general awareness of powder metallurgy before learning more in the past couple years. Fun stuff. :spyder: :cool:
:eek: :mad: ;)

As a proud Austrian I have to insist: Bohler Uddeholm actually is an AUSTRIAN company! ;)

- The Bohler (Böhler / Boehler in German) steel company was founded in 1870, but where they had there factory (Kapfenberg in Austria), there was steel production since at least around 1450 a.D.
- Uddeholm (a Swedish company indeed) was merged with Bohler just in 1991
- Here (https://www.bohler-edelstahl.com/en/high-speed-steel/) are lists of steels Bohler produces, among them K390, M390 or N690...
Wow!

I indeed left out that Bohler-Uddeholm is an Austrian-Swedish group. Sorry about that! :p :o

AFAIK they still have somewhat separate operations. Uddeholm and Bohler are part of a larger conglomerate Voestalpine AG.

I mentioned the Swedish side of the operation because that is what i know more about. All of what i said in my earlier post is true, though i did accidentally omit a reference to the Austrian Bohler. Sweden does have an old and well developed steel industry. I suppose Austria does too-- i'll have to learn more there.

As i understand it the grades manufactured by the Bohler in Austria which are used in knife blades includes the N690, M390 and K390 that you listed. Of those i am most interested in K390 and maybe M390 or an American analog.

From what i can find the grades used in knife blades made by the Swedish Uddeholm include Sleipner, Elmax and Vancron and the Vandadis family. Of those i am most interested in Vanadis 4 Extra--which is an analog of 4V.

Maybe Shawn, Larrin or someone else more knowledgeable can add more detail or any corrections.

What did you think of the video, anyhow?

Zum wohl

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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby Cambertree » Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:28 pm

Thanks for bringing this video and thread to the front page again, Enactive.

I used to have some interaction with the Australian branch of Bohler Uddeholm in a previous job, and have been to the site and through the warehouse many times. It’s interesting seeing the actual volumes of different steel grades which are used in industrial applications. I noticed that they now trade under the parent company name of Voestalpine.

One interesting thing about the history of steel is that although English edged tools, mainly from Sheffield, were world famous from about the 18th to early 20th century, the high grade iron ore they were made from was actually often imported from Sweden.

In Japan too, Swedish iron has a very good reputation, and is is often used to make the steel for high quality edged tools, including knives and kamisori (straight razors).

These photos are of a Sheffield factory which is preserved today as the Abbeydale Industrial Hamlet.

The factory was originally the Tyzack Scythe Works. Tyzack were the owners of the famous Taylor’s Eye Witness trademark, which was used on their pocketknives.

The building to the right corner with the tall chimneys is where the crucible steel was made on site.

Image

To the left is the smithy.

This picture shows the storeroom inside the steel puddling and furnace room area. You can see the scales and bins where different alloying components were stored.

Image

Here, you can see the imported Swedish iron, both in the form of pig iron ingots, and rectangular steel billets for easy storage, shipping and handling.

Image

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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby Enactive » Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:21 pm

Cambertree wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:28 pm
Thanks for bringing this video and thread to the front page again, Enactive.

I used to have some interaction with the Australian branch of Bohler Uddeholm in a previous job, and have been to the site and through the warehouse many times. It’s interesting seeing the actual volumes of different steel grades which are used in industrial applications. I noticed that they now trade under the parent company name of Voestalpine.

One interesting thing about the history of steel is that although English edged tools, mainly from Sheffield, were world famous from about the 18th to early 20th century, the high grade iron ore they were made from was actually often imported from Sweden.

In Japan too, Swedish iron has a very good reputation, and is is often used to make the steel for high quality edged tools, including knives and kamisori (straight razors).

These photos are of a Sheffield factory which is preserved today as the Abbeydale Industrial Hamlet.

The factory was originally the Tyzack Scythe Works. Tyzack were the owners of the famous Taylor’s Eye Witness trademark, which was used on their pocketknives.

The building to the right corner with the tall chimneys is where the crucible steel was made on site.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/xtffFAz.jpg

To the left is the smithy.

This picture shows the storeroom inside the steel puddling and furnace room area. You can see the scales and bins where different alloying components were stored.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/kRG7iUh.jpg

Here, you can see the imported Swedish iron, both in the form of pig iron ingots, and rectangular steel billets for easy storage, shipping and handling.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/3GQ3KWs.jpg

Thanks, Cambertree for the additional notes and photos. Very cool! :cool:

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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby Wartstein » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:46 am

Enactive wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:31 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:57 pm
Enactive wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:19 pm
:eek: :mad: ;)

As a proud Austrian I have to insist: Bohler Uddeholm actually is an AUSTRIAN company! ;)

- The Bohler (Böhler / Boehler in German) steel company was founded in 1870, but where they had there factory (Kapfenberg in Austria), there was steel production since at least around 1450 a.D.
- Uddeholm (a Swedish company indeed) was merged with Bohler just in 1991
- Here (https://www.bohler-edelstahl.com/en/high-speed-steel/) are lists of steels Bohler produces, among them K390, M390 or N690...
Wow!

I indeed left out that Bohler-Uddeholm is an Austrian-Swedish group. Sorry about that! :p :o

AFAIK they still have somewhat separate operations. Uddeholm and Bohler are part of a larger conglomerate Voestalpine AG.

........
What did you think of the video, anyhow?

Zum wohl
You are forgiven... :p :p

/ Yes, Voest Alpine is a (for Austrian standards) huge steel and technology company, they employ over 50 000 people as far as I know...

/ Liked the vid a lot, it explains the powder metallurgy process very good and understandable.

Here is the German version of the vid for those who might be German-, but not English Native speakers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-k0UjoBFLE
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby Cambertree » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:25 am

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:46 am
You are forgiven... :p :p

/ Yes, Voest Alpine is a (for Austrian standards) huge steel and technology company, they employ over 50 000 people as far as I know...

/ Liked the vid a lot, it explains the powder metallurgy process very good and understandable.

Here is the German version of the vid for those who might be German-, but not English Native speakers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-k0UjoBFLE
Hey Wartstein,

Is there a town or city in Austria which has a large concentration of knife and toolmaking, like Solingen in Germany?

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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby RustyIron » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:07 am

Nice overview, but a little lacking in detail. I've always been curious about atomization. To they shoot the material through nozzles? To they rely on turbulence in a hot nitrogen atmosphere for atomization? What it the size of the particles? That's the fascinating part for me.

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Re: Watch how Bohler Uddeholm makes Powder Steel

Postby standy99 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:29 am

Used to seeing the raw product.

Visit a few mines for work mostly manganese, iron ore, nickel and the likes. Always like to read the process and uses for the raw products when they are written about or displayed at the mine offices
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